the problem with a good mic is a bad room...

[dfira]

So lets get this out of the way, my budget is super low.

I'm going to be doing more online conferences, so i want to sound good. But remember, most people will use trashy speakers to listen to me so it's not imperative to sound studio great either.

Originally i wanted to pick up an AT2020 for its well balanced, unhyped and uncoloured sound. But I've been listening to the Thomann t.bone sc400 (at half the price) I'm kind of convinced by its hypercardioid polar pattern. It cuts out so much of the room accoustic. Whilst its bottom end is terrible and thin, this wouldn't have to be a problem with the proximity effect in studio, however since we are recording video, I don't want the mic anywhere near my face, and I don't want to treat the room either.

So i was thinking, perhaps there is the "AT2020" of hypercarioids?

I looked at shotgun mics, but they don't have that crisp condenser sound either. Does anyone know of something maybe in the middle? Or alternative advice for me?

[Sam Inglis]

Shotgun mics are almost all capacitor mics, so there's no reason why they shouldn't have that 'crisp condenser sound'... indeed, the Sennheiser 416 has been used for countless voiceovers and so on.

I'm afraid I know nothing of inexpensive shotgun mics, though!

[Drew Stephenson]

I'd be very wary of using a cheap shotgun mic indoors, they can be very phasey. I'd be more tempted by sticking with something like a nice-ish dynamic and just working it close enough to minimise room effects.

[shufflebeat]

My experience of online meetings suggests people with good sound are *either* working with a decent mic in a good room or using a well designed headset mic.

No need to reformulate pre-existing wheels.

[Sam Spoons]

Is there any reason why you can't improve the room? A couple of duvets just out of shot will, likely, make a surprising difference.

[MOF]

Put your current microphone on a stand just out of the top of shot or buy a lapel mic’ and wear it under a shirt if you don’t want it visible.
If it was a drama you were filming I could understand your desire not to see the microphone, a conference is different, most people will be very accepting of mic’s in shot.

[shufflebeat]

Is there any reason why you can't improve the room? A couple of duvets just out of shot will, likely, make a surprising difference.

You could just stay in bed, of course. Clip-on "shirt and tie" bib and green screen the headboard into your "library".

They're all doing it, you know.

[CS70]

You can use the duvet trick behind you, simply covering up with a breathable textile so it looks nicer. And Teams’ background blurring feature is pretty good if you use that.

As f the mic, I would go for a good dynamic, you really don’t need that much air anyways for a video conference. It would capture less high end but you can then boost little what is captured afterwards - so long you keep the boosting low you will get detail enough but in a good way.

Plenty ways to do that boost cheaply, from software in the interface, software in the computer or even a cheap mixer - not usually something I would recommend but if all you’re going to use the onboard. EQ for is a 3dB high shelf, even a trashy EQ will work.

Hypercardioid is good but it’s hard work, your voice will drop off very quickly if you move a bit and conferences usually last quite long to stay in exactly the same position all the time.

[CS70]

Is there any reason why you can't improve the room? A couple of duvets just out of shot will, likely, make a surprising difference.

You could just stay in bed, of course. Clip-on "shirt and tie" bib and green screen the headboard into your "library".

They're all doing it, you know.

Massive increase in suit jacket, shirt and tie sales and total drop in sales of the rest

[dfira]

Let's say i have a condenser close enough to enjoy some of that proximity effect, on a stand (either desk or floor standing) with a pop shield... That's still a lot of bulk in view.

If i can just pull back the mic a bit. Everything is solved, however, then there is little point in buying an expensive condenser / preamp because you're going to hear my room.

I can of course look into treating it, but it's a room i use for other things, so i don't want to put up and take down all the time, and also... If i start going to that length, then it never ends, what about good lighting and shadow a good camera etc.

So I'm hoping to just impress the average listener on his computer speakers or whatever with a clear enough sound, and a sort of plug and play attitude.

I could consider a clipon mic.any recommendations?

[Drew Stephenson]

Just for clarity for anyone reading along, proximity effect is a property of microphone pattern, not transducer type. I.e. you will get proximity effect from both dynamics and capacitor mics if they've been designed that way. Likewise mics without any noticeable proximity effect can be found in both dynamic and capacitor form.

[Kwackman]

Maybe consider a headset style microphone?

[CS70]

I can of course look into treating it, but it's a room i use for other things, so i don't want to put up and take down all the time, and also...

Since I have my home studio in a section of the living room, I have exactly the same issue. Solved with a couple absorbers with same color as the wall (white) so that they are not noticeable at all, on the contrary they look rather good.

[/quote]
If i start going to that length, then it never ends, what about good lighting and shadow a good camera etc.?[/quote]

Not really, video is not that relevant for the success of a video conference - people has had phone conferences without video for ages with no problems.

Whereas bad audio means certain annoyance and most likely failure

[adrian_k]

I have been told that my Zoom sound is good. When I do a mic test in Zoom I think it sounds a bit muffled on my monitors, but ok on laptop speakers.

What I do is put an inexpensive cardioid LDC on a short stand between my knees so it comes up to just above desk height. I’ve also put a foam windshield on it. I have the mic leaning back so pointing upwards towards my chin. My mouth is about a foot away from it I guess.

The mic is out of shot because the laptop camera doesn’t pick it up. The room does have some treatment but I think actually my body is acting as an absorber too. Maybe this approach plus a couple of duvets in the room?

[dfira]

an inexpensive cardioid LDC

What is this?

Yeah the t.bone sc400 really is a terrible mic as far as mics go (on a par with behringer). But what sets it apart from others is its supercardioid pattern which on the shootouts I've listened to, does help immensely with the room ambience picked up (which is why I'm surprised not more mics offer this), i can make up for the rest with a good EQ, i think.

So I'm thinking to pair that up with a low end DAC. Maybe treat myself to something in the 100€ range, if I'm feeling extra special. The new Tascam DACs coming out in Dec i have my eye on, since I've always been a fan of Tascam pres

[Sam Spoons]

By DAC I assume you mean what we usually call an "Audio Interface" (usually appended with "USB" these days).

Supercardioid mics do have some useful characteristics but, like any polar pattern, they do come with their issues. A narrow polar pattern (say, supercardioid) will, inevitably, pick up less room sound when worked at a given distance than a wider one (say cardioid) but the trade off is that if the performer/speaker moves off axis the level will drop more than a wider polar pattern. An additional compromise is that the off axis sound that is reproduced is often not as natural sounding (shotgun mics used indoors being very bad). There are various ways of reducing the ratio of wanted sound to background/room sound. Work closer to the mic, use a narrower pattern or treat the room.

[Mike Stranks]

Just a thought....

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_gc_300_set.htm

[dfira]

Sorry yes, meant interface. Since I never record, I'm too used to caring only about the DAC.

Thanks for the goosenec suggestion, yeah it sounds pretty lame though and my room is not so terrible that i need to hide it all costs (there already are two mattresses and a wardrobe in it)

What about this??? https://m.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_em_800.htm

Supercardioid, small, cheap, doesn't sound like hell...

[Sam Spoons]

Sorry yes, meant interface. Since I never record, I'm too used to caring only about the DAC.

Thanks for the goosenec suggestion, yeah it sounds pretty lame though

Have you tried the GC300 mic Mike linked too?

and my room is not so terrible that i need to hide it all costs (there already are two mattresses and a wardrobe in it)

Mattresses are pretty effective acoustic treatment i the right place, if they are on the bed though they won't be much help with early reflections.

What about this??? https://m.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_em_800.htm

Supercardioid, small, cheap, doesn't sound like hell...

Again, have you hear it?

[adrian_k]

an inexpensive cardioid LDC

What is this?

Sorry - Large Diaphragm Condenser. I bought it second hand for about £90 but that was maybe 10 years ago. Actually looking at it now I realise I grabbed the GrooveTubes GT65, which is actually not a bad mic. As you were!

Second hand might be an option though if budget is the driver?

[forumuser915213]

How was the sc400 you heard set?

There's an internal high pass filter operated by using a switch inside the casing; switch the hpf off and you might like the sense of depth you get a little better.

I think it's fair to say that for such a tiny price, it's not a terrible mic; if I had a complaint it wouldn't be lack of bass but a slight boxiness. You might want a screen or something to soak up/blot out unwanted sound from behind, where hypercardioids also have some sensitivity.

https://youtu.be/uFAxQVG7Ia0

Gavin

[dfira]

Sorry yes, meant interface. Since I never record, I'm too used to caring only about the DAC.

Thanks for the goosenec suggestion, yeah it sounds pretty lame though

Have you tried the GC300 mic Mike linked too?

Well no, just going off the samples on the site and my memory of hearing that kind of mic being used in live conferences

[dfira]

How was the sc400 you heard set?

There's an internal high pass filter operated by using a switch inside the casing; switch the hpf off and you might like the sense of depth you get a little better.

I think it's fair to say that for such a tiny price, it's not a terrible mic; if I had a complaint it wouldn't be lack of bass but a slight boxiness. You might want a screen or something to soak up/blot out unwanted sound from behind, where hypercardioids also have some sensitivity.

https://youtu.be/uFAxQVG7Ia0

Gavin

Okay yeah, today i was convinced i would get the em 800, but you got me digging, and i found this post which seems to describe me exactly! - although maybe he was a little high at the time of listening, a little bit generous with the praise there!

[forumuser915213]

I have been told that my Zoom sound is good. When I do a mic test in Zoom I think it sounds a bit muffled on my monitors, but ok on laptop speakers.

What I do is put an inexpensive cardioid LDC on a short stand between my knees so it comes up to just above desk height. I’ve also put a foam windshield on it. I have the mic leaning back so pointing upwards towards my chin. My mouth is about a foot away from it I guess.

The mic is out of shot because the laptop camera doesn’t pick it up. The room does have some treatment but I think actually my body is acting as an absorber too. Maybe this approach plus a couple of duvets in the room?

We've been running a weekly musical Zoom singaround/turnaround every Sunday evening since March.

You'd think we'd have learned something in that time, and of course we have, but only slowly.

As so often, we've learned that good sound is made from a good performance, a good room and good placement, and the next most important thing to get right is the Zoom audio settings. The audio gear we use is about fifth on the list.

For quite some time we've been determined to keep our ldc mic/mics just out of shot above our keyboard, basically because we didn't want people to think they need to have lots of gear to join us, but from this week I'm trying an experiment with two hypercardioid dynamics set low to the table, and closer.

My thinking is that despite being in quite a good household room we're still getting too much room sound, even with added duvets in clothes horses, so we need to get closer. Beyond that, rather than have two whacking ldcs in shot, I think two stage dynamics low in the shot as pointing upwards will be less conspicuous.

I've been thinking also about nasal sounds, which I can have; my guess is that dynamics are designed to sound ok pointing close to people's nasal passages, while ldcs are not generally used that way but from eye level or to one side.

I'll use small foam windshields to tame the presence a little.

Won't we lose out on the detail a well matched ldc delivers? I've heard what people in Zooms are listening on and I've heard the compression Zoom delivers. I think the stage dynamics will be fine... But we'll see tomorrow night.

Meanwhile, I'd better focus on the performances!

Gavin

[CS70]

My thinking is that despite being in quite a good household room we're still getting too much room sound, even with added duvets in clothes horses, so we need to get closer.

Something that sometimes gets forgotten is the air bouncing between ceiling and floor. My own space changed its nature completely when I manage to hang traps from the ceiling - the plus is that they are completely invisible unless I angle the camera so that they can be seen.