The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

[Drew Stephenson]

I'm not suggesting it's a 'what can you do' situation, I'm suggesting it's a 'what do you want to do?' one.
This is only an issue to those who see it as such. Hence it's a personal decision based on one's moral compass.

[The Elf]

I'm not suggesting it's a 'what can you do' situation, I'm suggesting it's a 'what do you want to do?' one.
This is only an issue to those who see it as such. Hence it's a personal decision based on one's moral compass.

Agreed.

I have one piece of B gear on order. On the one hand I don't feel like handing money over right now, but then there's the consideration of the (UK) store I'm buying it from *and* a second 'one-man-band' business who is supplying part of this purchase. At the moment I'm thinking I'll see it through, but that's me finished until those bridges are repaired to my satisfaction. This whole incident has very much taken the shine off it for me.

I don't think B will go under on the strength of my brand boycott, but neither will they profit from my custom. I'm OK with that.

[baward]

I've just bought a Keystep 37 and I love it already (I wonder how long it will be etc.etc.). Somehow I seem to be able to be more creative, just playing the keys as opposed to on a full-sized keyboard.

[muzines]

Mini keys is the secret weapon of the pros that they aren't telling you about!

[Arpangel]

(The above image posted with Behringer's statement.)

My overall takeaway from the statement is basically Uli saying:

"Other sh*tty companies rip off established brands' successful products, so I don't see what the problem is with us doing it..."

Loads of people rip of others by all sorts of means, but just because loads of others do it doesn’t mean it’s OK. But, in the grand scheme of things, mixers, a MIDI keyboard, it’s hardly like being the next Anti-Christ.

[brucie]

Such as shame that they are returning to these tactics, when in some areas they are really developing and have the ability to develop outstanding products. I mean the X32 has changed the lower end of the live sound market and is an amazing product.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I'm coming to the conclusion that B didn't really change direction at all. Perhaps the X32 (and its derivatives) simply came with the acquisition of MIDAS... More or less everything since has been copies of vintage synths rather than genuinely original and innovative products.

[N i g e l]

I'm not going to criticise them, especially not with two Behringer controllers on the desk in front of me.

I only have 1 but I want more. Sadly the're out of production.

But wait ! whats this ...



https://www.facebook.com/behringer/phot ... 7253648914

[Eddy Deegan]

I'm not suggesting it's a 'what can you do' situation, I'm suggesting it's a 'what do you want to do?' one.
This is only an issue to those who see it as such. Hence it's a personal decision based on one's moral compass.

Agreed.

I have one piece of B gear on order. On the one hand I don't feel like handing money over right now, but then there's the consideration of the (UK) store I'm buying it from *and* a second 'one-man-band' business who is supplying part of this purchase. At the moment I'm thinking I'll see it through, but that's me finished until those bridges are repaired to my satisfaction. This whole incident has very much taken the shine off it for me.

I don't think B will go under on the strength of my brand boycott, but neither will they profit from my custom. I'm OK with that.

Totally understandable and if anyone has an outstanding order I see no compelling reason to cancel it unless they were sort-of-thinking about something else ...

... which I was

I'll be pinging my contact tomorrow morning and asking him to take the deposit I put down on the 2600 clone, cancel the clone order, offset it from the price of an UDO Super 6 and invoice me for the difference. He'll be happy... it's just revenue to him and with this specific transaction it just jumped well North of triple.

I'll also explain to him why - he'll get it. After that ridiculous "justification" post from them, as of this point, I'm not buying anything from Behringer for the forseeable future. They won't care or notice, but I can't support a stance that basically says "we will because we can".

Their defensive mealy-mouthed statement doesn't address any of the the morality and decency issues and as a software developer by way of a day job I am mindful of the mantra "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". In short, they have no sense of proper decency as I see it, regardless of legalities and I'm simply not going to play that game.

As always, this post is my opinion only and I don't speak for anyone else much as I hope they would agree with me on this issue.

[Agharta]

I respect anyone that votes with their wallets based on their personal ethics.
I wish it was easier to so in general as if I did I would need to get rid of equipment that I own based on the dubious practices of:
Google
Apple
Intel
Microsoft

I suppose I could always run Linux on AMD!

I suppose we have to start somewhere as it's very challenging to boycott all of the above.

[Eddy Deegan]

I suppose we have to start somewhere as it's very challenging to boycott all of the above.

It is. Much harder with them than it is with music tech providers, although I do fully understand that many people on a budget will remain with Behringer in some ways given they have fewer options than others. I've been there, and I know.

As of right now I have half your list happily catered for in terms of 'vote elsewhere with the wallet' and they get nothing from me.

Of the other two, only one gets any direct revenue from me and it's minimal. To put it into perspective it would take 100 months or so for them to recoup the cost of a 2600 clone from me. The other I use indirectly for work and have no choice, although it's not my pocket that's paying them.

The world is not a world of absolutes. Do what one can. Reducing the revenue to a company you have distaste for is better than doing nothing. Nobody is a saint, the world makes certain things very hard to disengage from but it's worth remembering that small numbers add up.

[Arpangel]

I'm coming to the conclusion that B didn't really change direction at all. Perhaps the X32 (and its derivatives) simply came with the acquisition of MIDAS... More or less everything since has been copies of vintage synths rather than genuinely original and innovative products.

Klark Teknic too, if you factor in Midas, then yes, they haven’t actually made any innovative stuff "themselves" they’ve just waved a check-book.
I say that Behringers talent "now" is for making things that are as good as the competition, but at a cheaper price, that wasn’t the case years ago, it was just bad. They are masters of modern manufacturing and obviously monitor that very closely overseas.
I think also, it’s a major source of anger, even jealousy, from other companies simply because people are saying the above, why can’t you make your products more competitive, and maybe take less profit, you’re asking too much, if Behringer can do it for X amount, why can’t you close the gap?
This is going round in circles now, and Behringer aren’t going to go away, me personally, I’m not interested in buying any of their stuff, there isn’t anything they make that I’m looking to buy. But, and this says it all, there are a few things I’m interested in made by very innovative companies that may get my cash, people like Soma, Make Noise, Twisted Electrons, look at Behringers foray into Eurorack? not one original module, Roland, Moog, and ARP "recreations" this really seals their fate as a copier, they will never be remembered as originators, or pioneers, unlike the people they copy.
You’d have thought that with all of Behringers resources and money, they could have come up with their own unique range of modules, that would have been far more interesting, and may have given them some much needed credibillity in the process.

[BJG145]

"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little." Edmund Burke

Great quote.

[Arpangel]

Also........Behringer only really make things they know are "sure sellers" there are many synth enthusiasts that will buy replicas of vintage synths, modules, cheap digital mixers sell like hot-cakes, if Behringer had designed a whole bunch of really original synth modules, that were unique, that no one else had thought of, god forbid, they may not sell!!
That business model definitely isn’t Behringer!

[jjlonbass]

I've just received an email stating that my 2600 has shipped, so I will have it in time for my birthday and Christmas. I'm excited

John

[Arpangel]

I've just received an email stating that my 2600 has shipped, so I will have it in time for my birthday and Christmas. I'm excited

John

Reminds me of when I was a child, instead of a synth, it would be a train set.

Enjoy it....

[baward]

I am mindful of the mantra "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

Exactly what I have to say to the grand kids

[DGL.]

A for the Swing, I too don't get it but it's supposedly part of their upcoming DAW so we shall see then if it has anything extra special, though supposedly the Keystep is not the most reliable pieces of kit at least early on so maybe that MIGHT be the only plus point, being slightly cheaper isn't really.

As for what they are cooking up next (and at least it's not a clone of something modern!), a Blinn anyone?
(picture from the Behringer FB page)

[N i g e l]

Thats more like the Behringer I know; Im guessing £300 for a new one [no doubt with USB etc] versus £3000 for a dieing decades old original off EBAY .

[The Elf]

Most comments seem to think it's a Linn recreation.

If so - a machine that plays back samples. Yawn...

[N i g e l]

I think the Linn drum was more about the hands on user experience ?
but sure, you could get a similar end result for free with cakewalk [+laptop].

[muzines]

If so - a machine that plays back samples. Yawn...

I'm *amazed* that crappy, inflexible, bad-sounding *digital* drum machines are still going for high prices. it's absolutely crazy!

Yes, there are some unique, interesting, weird and capable drum machines that can be worth playing with if you like playing with hardware machines. RX5's, Kawai R100/50, Roland R8s and many more can do some interesting things and can be bent in some unique ways.

But I mean people are buying stuff like RX11s, TR-505/626s - just really old, poor sounding machines where you can't basically do much other than playback single samples, not even tune them a lot of the time. Nothing that a decent sample set can't do in your DAW. For hundreds of pounds. For £20, maybe. *Maybe*...

Seriously, a TR-505 was a crappy, budget, poor-featured drum machine in the actual 80s - it had no redeeming features then (apart from the price).

As for the LinnDrum - well, there are always people that want the real thing, and there are always people who want the real thing but can't afford them and so will like the next best nearly-real thing, and if that's what they want, fair enough.

The LinnDrum was one of the things Behringer got from the Tears for Fears haul - I wonder if they plan to offer all the replacement chip sounds that came with it? (They might have a battle with Forat, who owns the copyright on the Linn samples, though...) And the LinnDrum, *without* the samples, isn't a LinnDrum really...

Not that the sample copyright issue would probably bother Behringer, of course...

[nathanscribe]

The LinnDrum was one of the things Behringer got from the Tears for Fears haul - I wonder if they plan to offer all the replacement chip sounds that came with it? (They might have a battle with Forat, who owns the copyright on the Linn samples, though...) And the LinnDrum, *without* the samples, isn't a LinnDrum really...

Gonna say, the samples are copyright... same with the TR-909 but B have got one of those on the way. I've been wondering about that since they announced it.

Regarding the Linn, I've got one and I enjoy it, but I bought it back when they were unfashionable, when the LM-1 was the pricey one... LinnDrum prices these days came as a bit of a surprise when I finally checked up. Funny how the old 505/626 etc are starting to climb as well, they were always just slightly weak beige boxes, but then I thought the same about the 707/727 and 303 as well (awful shiny rubbish, abysmal to program, only did one thing and it was a pain to get close). Yet people idolise it fiercely, without apparently acknowledging that the gear, crap as it is, is not what one should be idolising. [end grumpy grump]

[muzines]

Regarding the Linn, I've got one and I enjoy it, but I bought it back when they were unfashionable, when the LM-1 was the pricey one...

Do you have any of the Linn (or other third-party) replacement sound chips, by any chance?

Oops, need to reach my daily cuppa tea stretch goal, back in a sec...

[Agharta]

Well a Ford Cortina is desirable for some in the Classic Car world.
It takes all sorts.