Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

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Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by EBass »

Hi there.

So I am no expert on anything audio recording, myself and my girlfriend recently started a podcast, just for a bit of fun really. I figured I'd buy a few things to make it sound a bit more professional, a half decent mike and an audio interface. Just well reviewed budget end stuff, nothing too fancy cos I'm not a pro and have no designs on being.

Anyway so I bought the Q2U mic, and the UMC22 audio interface.

The Q2U seems to work fine if I USB it directly into my computer.

However the UMC22 volume seems to be VERY QUIET. I'm using the XLR cable to plug into it, and only if I turn the gain on the UMC22 to FULL and speak VERY LOUDLY do I get response. If I talk in a normal volume there's no response from the mic. It is the same if I plug my guitar into the input jack on the UMC22, only if I turn the gain to full and play hard do I get any response in audacity and even them it's only a very slight.

I don't have a clue what to do here as I've looked everywhere. All my volumes are turned to full. One possible lead is something I found on another forum which says...

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"UMC22 "line in" is set as default for recording. (Original poster)

I have never used any such equipment, but unless the mic has an inbuilt preamp, that setting is wrong. You have told the interface to record from line input, but you need to set it to record from "microphone input" or whatever it's called.

Line inputs are (more or less) for already pre-amplified signals, mic inputs for much weaker mic-level signals, which need to go thru a preamp to be - well - pre-amplified :) (Responder)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

My UMC22 is also listed in sound devices as being "line in". What the person above is saying sounds very like my problem, an incredibly weak signal. However I have no other "input options" to choose from.

Many thanks.

Richard.
"
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by Murray B »

Some questions that may help find the solution....

What level do you get through the direct monitoring option - can you hear the signals clearly here?

Are you able to get the clip warning light if you turn the gain right up on the interface with either of the inputs?

Have you installed all the recommended audio drivers for the umc22 interface?

How are you selecting the input source in Audacity?

Have you tried any other software to record on?

I'm no kind of windows audio expert unfortunately, but my feeling is that with the right drivers in place the interface should be easy to use.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by wireman »

There is a video on Youtube showing a Shure SM7B connected into this to give an idea of the expected gain. I think it has similar sensitivity to the Q2U.

https://youtu.be/FLNDxdtBGVc?t=215

The manual has this...

Mic: +2 dBu / Line: +22 dBu / Instrument: +2 dBu

The Mic will be the XLR and the line the jack socket.

However it does not have an instrument input designed for a guitar unlike other models in that range.

[EDIT- please ignore comment about the microphone above as there is a separate comparison video on Youtube by the same person showing reasonable output from that microphone]
Last edited by wireman on Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by CS70 »

EBass wrote:Hi there.

I'm using the XLR cable to plug into it, and only if I turn the gain on the UMC22 to FULL and speak VERY LOUDLY do I get response. If I talk in a normal volume there's no response from the mic.

It is the same if I plug my guitar into the input jack on the UMC22, only if I turn the gain to full and play hard do I get any response in audacity and even them it's only a very slight.

I don't have a clue what to do here as I've looked everywhere.

Well first thing it would be good to learn some about audio equipment? :lol:

Grumpy old man concerns aside, there's a number of issues that can cause what you experience. They are all pretty obvious: the first that comes to mind is that the mic is a condenser type and you don't have phantom power enabled.

EDIT: sorry, didn't realize you mentioned the specific mic. The Q2U should work, so it could be a problem with it or the preamp. How is your output volume? The volume of a recorded, pre-masterng track will be lower than a regular YT or Spotify song.

Also, the signal path used when you use the XLR input or the jack input on the interface are different. The XLR will expect a balanced, mic level signal (low voltage); the jack will expect a line-level signal (much higher voltage). Not sure if the UMC22 jack can be placed in Hi-Z (high impedance) mode, which will you need if you want to connect a guitar with passive pickups like a stratocaster or suchlike.

Of course it could also be a dud..
Last edited by CS70 on Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by wireman »

EBass wrote:Hi there.

So I am no expert on anything audio recording, myself and my girlfriend recently started a podcast, just for a bit of fun really.

I realiase that my response was probably too technical for you.

Your microphone has a preamplifier in it and circuitry to interface to a computer so that is why you get a good sound using USB.
At the same time it acts like an unpowered dynamic microphone that you can plug into an audio interface to boost the signal, that interface is also providing an input to the computer over USB. Note that dynamic microphones need a very high gain/boost which may be why it sounds quiet.
There are other microphones that are powered either by battery or 48V from the interface which produce a higher signal.

I'm not sure what the options are for your guittar, as it stands you are plugging it into an input that expects a high signal and is not specifically designed to match a guitar output. Other experts on here can tell you about that.
Last edited by wireman on Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by Drew Stephenson »

OK, so assuming that you're plugging the guitar into the INST jack and not the Mic/Line jack then there's no reason things shouldn't be working fine.
You should expect to have the gain setting on the mic pretty high, but you shouldn't need to do anything too heavy on the instrument input.
So the first thing is to ignore the comment you've quoted from the other forum. The UMC has a built in pre-amp that works automatically on anything plugged into the XLR socket. The same socket works as a line-level input if you plug a jack in there.
So don't worry about that.

There are various places where the issue could be arising so it's important to work through them logically.

Start with the sources. We've established the microphone works because it works over USB. We'll assume for now that the audio output of the mic is correctly wired up well. Unless you have another device (mixer/pa/interface) that you can plug the xlr in and confirm?
Presumably you've also got an amp or something that you can plug your guitar into and confirm that this is also working ok.

Next is cables, never underestimate this step in any problem solving routine! So if you have them, swap out both microphone and guitar cables, or check them using a cable tester or multi-meter.

Then let's look at the signal entering the interface. Each input has two LEDs near the gain knob. The green one should light up when the input is getting a signal in, the red one will light up when the signal is too strong (too 'hot').
For both inputs, set the gain to about 2/3rd and speak into the mic / play your guitar and confirm if you're getting a green light.
If yes, excellent. We'll move on.
If no, try nudging the gain up until you do. If you're at maximum gain with no green light (and you've tested your cables/guitar/mic already) then you probably have a faulty unit.
If you're getting a green and red light, turn down the gain until the red light goes off.

The other way to check the inputs is to plug some headphones into the front and press the Direct Monitor button, this switches the interface to listening to the inputs not the computer output - so you should hear anything that's coming in from the mic or the instrument inputs.

Ok, so if you've got a signal coming (green lights), and you can hear it ok through the headphones with Direct Monitoring engaged, then we need to look at the next step.

I've never used Audacity, but somewhere in the setup/preferences/options will be a menu allowing you to set up your input device or audio device or what have you. You'll need to make sure your inputs and outputs from Audacity are set the UMC22 - if that's not in the options list, you might need to look for ASIO4ALL instead - these are the generic drivers for the audio interface. If you haven't already downloaded these, do. You can get them from here: https://www.behringer.com/downloads.html

That should set up the sources, the interface, and the DAW ready to take a signal.
At some point round here, make sure your project settings in Audacity are set to record in 24bit. It will probably default to that, but check anyway. Whether it's 44kHz, 48 or 92 is much less important. 24 bit rather than 16 is the important number.
So then add a track, set the input in the track to whichever source you're recording (mic or instrument), prime it for recording and see what kind of levels you get.

This bit is really important - expect your levels to be 'really low'.
When we record at 24bit we get a huge, huge dynamic range. Which means that you don't have to 'push' your inputs hard, you can keep your input at a sensible level so that you don't get any clipping (where your signal is too hot and it distorts nastily).
So what's a sensible level? If your input signal is bouncing around -18dB, with your peaks (the loudest spikes) just hitting -10dB, then you've got a good level. It'll be plenty loud enough when it comes to mixing the track but you don't need to worry about exuberant performances causing any clipping.

BUT this will sound much, much quieter than any other music you play through your system. And that's fine, it's how it's supposed to be. It's easy to raise the volume at the end of the mixing process and bring it back up to 'normal' levels.

There are a couple of things to watch out for though. Some DAWs (and I don't know Audacity) have the default size for the display set so that a healthy signal (bouncing around -18) looks really small in waveform display. Don't let that put you off. You can probably rescale the display somewhere (to make it easier when editing) or just ignore it and accept that a good level looks small on the waveform.

In summary:
Check the sources if you've got anything else to plug into.
Check your cables.
Check your input signal (LEDs and headphones with direct monitoring).
Check your DAW set up.
Check your recording levels.

Hope that all makes sense, just shout if you have any questions. :)
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by wireman »

I have no idea how I missed the INST2 input, I must have been looking at the wrong product online.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by EBass »

Thank you all very much for the help. I appreciate you taking time out of your day to help me on this. I'll respond to Murray and Blinddrew in turn below.....

I should restate that I am no expert, I'm pretty competent with computers but I've never done any of this before. To be honest all I've done before is plugged either my guitar or mic directly into my soundcard and those results have always been "fine" give or take. I figured that with modern software hardware being what it is, just having something specially designed to plug into would be......... real easy. I did some research and it seemed pretty well agreed that the UMC22 was about the best budget thing on the market, and considering I didn't want anything more complicated than "something you can plug into for guitar, bass, and Mic" this seemed to be what I wanted.

Murray B wrote: What level do you get through the direct monitoring option - can you hear the signals clearly here?

Are you able to get the clip warning light if you turn the gain right up on the interface with either of the inputs?

Have you installed all the recommended audio drivers for the umc22 interface?

How are you selecting the input source in Audacity?

Have you tried any other software to record on?

I don't know what direct monitoring is. OH wait you mean if I plug headphones into the actual UMC22 and listen to the "raw" stuff? Yes it's the same. Very low levels

No, even with gain fully turned up, no clip warning light. I need to turn guitar up to half and mic up to 3/4 to even get the green light at all, and thats if I play hard or yell.

The input source in Audacity is the only one that appears related to the UMC22. "LINE IN BEHRINGER USM WDM AUDI"

Yes I have the recommended drivers.

Yes, in all software its the same.

blinddrew wrote: Start with the sources. We've established the microphone works because it works over USB. We'll assume for now that the audio output of the mic is correctly wired up well. Unless you have another device (mixer/pa/interface) that you can plug the xlr in and confirm?
Presumably you've also got an amp or something that you can plug your guitar into and confirm that this is also working ok.

The Mic works fine over USB. I suppose the problem could be with the XLR (I can't debug this as I don't have another XLR, but seeing as I'm getting very low response on the guitar AND the mic, then I don't think it's gonna be an XLR problem (all this is newly bought stuff too)

The guitar works fine when plugged into my amp. Not a cable issue.

blinddrew wrote:
Then let's look at the signal entering the interface.......

As stated above. A signal IS getting through, but its very weak. I need to have the gain set to 50% and play hard on my guitar to even get a green light. At 50% the mic doesn't pick up anything, at 75 it picks up something if I yell or talk right into it, but considering this is a mic I want to pick things up from a little bit of distance this isn't ideal.

Even with 100% gain on both and playing as loud as I can I can't get the red light on either.

blinddrew wrote: I've never used Audacity, but somewhere in the setup/preferences/options will be a menu allowing you to set up your input device or audio device or what have you. You'll need to make sure your inputs and outputs from Audacity are set the UMC22 - if that's not in the options list, you might need to look for ASIO4ALL instead - these are the generic drivers for the audio interface. If you haven't already downloaded these, do. You can get them from here: https://www.behringer.com/downloads.html

There are three....... I dunno what exactly they are, catagories. "MME", "Windows Direct Sound" and "Windows WASAPI" I just tried and they all seem to be able to record and the quality difference seems to be negligible. That aside yes, I have done that.

blinddrew wrote: That should set up the sources, the interface, and the DAW ready to take a signal.
At some point round here, make sure your project settings in Audacity are set to record in 24bit. It will probably default to that, but check anyway. Whether it's 44kHz, 48 or 92 is much less important. 24 bit rather than 16 is the important number.
So then add a track, set the input in the track to whichever source you're recording (mic or instrument), prime it for recording and see what kind of levels you get.

This is where it gets a bit technical for me. In the preferences there seems to be a quality setting with "Default Sample Format" which was in 32 bit float but I just set to 24 bit. This to me seems like not the sort of thing that would have a huge impact on the volume/levels of the input but I really don't know. Anyway it didn't seem to have a huge effect

blinddrew wrote: This bit is really important - expect your levels to be 'really low'.
When we record at 24bit we get a huge, huge dynamic range. Which means that you don't have to 'push' your inputs hard, you can keep your input at a sensible level so that you don't get any clipping (where your signal is too hot and it distorts nastily).
So what's a sensible level? If your input signal is bouncing around -18dB, with your peaks (the loudest spikes) just hitting -10dB, then you've got a good level. It'll be plenty loud enough when it comes to mixing the track but you don't need to worry about exuberant performances causing any clipping.

I do expect this but like I said, I can't even get ANY response from guitar or mic unless I turn the gain to above 50% and even with it at 100% I'm not even getting NEAR clipping when I am fully shouting or whacking my guitar. I don't know how to check this -18bd 10bd stuff.

Ok so after playing about with it I found out that it looks like if I turn instrument gain up to 100% and play REALLY HARD I can almost reach -10 db. Yet it seems that if I whack gain up to 100 and play as hard as I can I should be clipping right? Also another interesting thing. Windows Direct sound and MME give around the same db range but WASAPI's levels are much much lower.

Thanks a lot for all your help. I really appreciate it.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by CS70 »

Since you aren't using ASIO drivers, have you checked the mic level in your computer? "Sound settings" in Windows or simiar.

With MME, direct sound and WASAPI you're going thru windows audio, so if for some reason you've set the mic level low, you'll have that problem.

Otherwise I would think something's broken in the interface.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by James Perrett »

It may be worth saying that this interface doesn't have its own drivers - it just uses the standard Windows class compliant drivers which means that it is limited to 16 bits at 48kHz.

With budget interfaces like this it is normal to have to turn the gain up high to see a significant level but I would expect to see the clip light come on if you shout into the mic at full gain settings. However, just backing off the gain knob by a few degrees will make the sound much quieter so you may not see clipping if the control isn't absolutely fully clockwise.

As also pointed out, you will be going through Windows' sound system so you need to check the windows mixer settings too.

Personally, if you have only just received the UMC22, I would be tempted to send it back and replace it with the UMC202HD which comes with proper ASIO drivers and works at 24 bits.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Ah, thanks for that update James - didn't realise it was 16bit only. :(
If the budget will stretch I'd definitely consider upgrading to the 202.

EBass, CS70's point is very valid, check the rest of your windows sounds levels.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by Mike Stranks »

I'm sitting looking at a UMC22 right now. Hooked it up to Audacity a couple of days ago - all working fine...

Back to basics...

The cable you're using to connect the mic to the UMC - is it a female XLR to male XLR. If it's female XLR to jack, that's where the problem is.

You do have the orange 'power' button lit on the UMC22?

When you connect headphones to the UMC, do you have the 'Direct Monitor' button pushed in?

Have you tried a different USB lead; different USB socket?

Are you connecting direct or going through a USB hub?

If all of those are good then either the UMC22 is faulty or it's something to do with the device setup in Windows...

(to be continued... perhaps!)
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by James Perrett »

Mike Stranks wrote: You do have the orange 'power' button lit on the UMC22?

I think the mic acts as a dynamic mic when the USB function isn't being used so phantom power shouldn't be needed (although I've not gone through the manual to check).
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by Mike Stranks »

James Perrett wrote:
Mike Stranks wrote: You do have the orange 'power' button lit on the UMC22?

I think the mic acts as a dynamic mic when the USB function isn't being used so phantom power shouldn't be needed (although I've not gone through the manual to check).

There are two separate LED lights James... one is for phantom (marked +48V), but the one I'm talking about is above that and designated 'POWER'. It is illuminated when the UMC22 is connected to a powered USB socket. So the 'power button on mine is illuminated now. It will go off when I power-down the computer or if I put it into sleep mode.

If that light isn't illuminated then the USB port on the PC/hub, the USB lead or the UMC itself aren't working as they should.
Last edited by Mike Stranks on Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by James Perrett »

Mike Stranks wrote: There are two separate LED lights James... one is for phantom (marked +48V), but the one I'm talking about is above that and designated 'POWER'. It is illuminated when the UMC22 is connected to a powered USB socket. So the 'power button on mine is illuminated now. It will go off when I power-down the computer or if I put it into sleep mode.

If that light isn't illuminated then the USB port on the PC/hub, the USB lead or the UMC itself aren't working as they should.

Ah - I get it now. :thumbup:
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by EBass »

CS70 wrote:Since you aren't using ASIO drivers, have you checked the mic level in your computer? "Sound settings" in Windows or simiar.
.

Of course, all full.

Mike Stranks wrote: The cable you're using to connect the mic to the UMC - is it a female XLR to male XLR. If it's female XLR to jack, that's where the problem is.

You do have the orange 'power' button lit on the UMC22?

When you connect headphones to the UMC, do you have the 'Direct Monitor' button pushed in?

Have you tried a different USB lead; different USB socket?

Are you connecting direct or going through a USB hub?

The answers to the above are XLR to XLR, yes, yes, yes, no hub its going direct

CS70 wrote:Since you aren't using ASIO drivers, have you checked the mic level in your computer? "Sound settings" in Windows or simiar.
.

Yes of course. Everything I can find is set to full.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by Mike Stranks »

In that case, I can only assume you have a faulty unit...
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by Drew Stephenson »

I concur with Mr Stranks.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by Mike Stranks »

Just one last double-check.... :)

NB. I'm using a relatively sensitive capacitor mic and I need the gain on the UMC set at just past 3 o'clock to get the green light flicking on. If I then speak loudly the red clip light comes on.

In Windows Devices - Sound - the Input should show the ID of the UMC 22:

Image

In Windows Device Properties you can conduct a mic test by clicking 'Start Test' and speaking into the microphone. You can adjust the slider so that you're getting peaks of about 75%:

Image

Only now open Audacity. Settings should be:

Image

Press the red Record Button and speak into the mic. You should see a scrolling waveform.

That's my last throw of the dice I'm afraid! If you've done all that and still getting very low levels in Audacity then I think you have a defective unit.
Last edited by Mike Stranks on Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by EBass »

Thanks to everyone who helped out, I guess the unit is defective. I've sent it back, thanks a lot!
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Re: Input Volume VERY LOW when going through UMC22 Audio Interface.

Post by scottg »

Hi all. I found this thread on a search because I have the same exact problem with the same interface. I found the debugging / troubleshooting instructions really helpful (thanks to all). EBass: if you're still around, can you follow up and say whether the replacement device fixed the issue? Thx!
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