Still searching for the Rhodes?

[Arpangel]

I’m still searching, but I’d like to get one soon, due to my new studio space.
I’ve come to a few conclusions, it’s seems a bit pointless to buy an electronic imitation, I may as well use a VSTi, something like a Nord etc is just a chip anyway, with samples, no different to a computer, and, you’re paying for all that hardware. OK, I can see a use for these types of things live, but for studio use, you may as well use samples.
The bottom line is either a real Rhodes, or something like a Vintage Vibe, and it’s not a good time right now, with covid restrictions, getting stuff, and trying it out.
Lastly, are there really any dedicated instruments that are any good, over using a VSTi? be interested in peoples reasons for buying a hardware electronic Rhodes.

[The Elf]

Might help:
https://youtu.be/FSamnzXl5J8

[Arpangel]

Might help:
https://youtu.be/FSamnzXl5J8

Thanks Elf, I checked that out a few days ago, interesting, how he preferred Keyscape.
I didn’t like it at all, way too bright, and too much tine.
I’ve been listening to a lot of 70’s recordings, using Rhodes, and one thing that always sticks out, it’s how smooth the sound is on the Rhodes, with quite a bit of mid-range emphasis, and a very bell like high end. I love all that, it gets dirty too, but never bright or harsh.
The trouble is, I’m not a Jazz/Blues player, and all of the demo's tend to focus on those things, that’s no good to me, what sounds good in that context doesn’t sound good with my music.
The acid test for me is when you play softly, and play repeated notes, expressively, I need something that has that nice soft tone, but where you can dig in if need be, if it’s too bright, it just doesn’t work, and kills the feel for me.
Think Gill Scott Heron, and Harold Budd.

[The Elf]

The problem is that your requirements are so very specific to yourself that I can't see how anyone can give you a meaningful steer. As you know, my search for a Rhodes sound ended with the Yamaha reface CP, but you don't like that - two players with completely different impressions of one instrument. And in that video, another player gives yet another different opinion - I don't find Keyscape to my taste.

So I think this is something you simply have to work out for yourself somehow.

[N i g e l]

I agree. The requirements are so specific and personal you might be better off with somthing more general but tweekable.

Did you try a Waldorf Zarenburg? Not had a go on one myself but it looks like it has character and is tweekable. I think it uses physical modeling.

[Folderol]

Looks like a case of Rhodes to nowhere
OK, OK, I'm going

[Sam Inglis]

Talk to Huw Rees at Rhodes Repair:

http://rhodesrepair.co.uk/

He is a bona fide wizard and will be able to set any instrument up to play and sound like you want it to.

[Animalbeats]

Just get a real one, the tone bars vibrate as do the hammers they’re struck by, the whole room has a feel from materials.

[Arpangel]

Talk to Huw Rees at Rhodes Repair:

http://rhodesrepair.co.uk/

He is a bona fide wizard and will be able to set any instrument up to play and sound like you want it to.

Is this the chap in Scotland? I think I may have spoken to him a while ago, the trouble is, it’s impossible to go anywhere, let alone try things out.
I think I will end up getting a real Rhodes, a hardware electronic recreation seems a bit pointless, as I said, may as well use software, I have one that’s not bad, in Kontakt, better than Keyscape, also I have one in Analogue Lab, that’s also not bad, but not as good as Kontakt.

[tea for two]

https://sanjayc.com/products/sanjays-rh ... ll-version

"Sanjay's Rhodes is a virtual instrument recorded from my own Fender Rhodes Mark 1 stage piano. I’ve recorded each key to give you a realistic and beautiful instrument.......

every key recorded at two velocities for both mellow and gritty sounds - play harder to get that iconic Rhodes growl.
8 additional presets give you unique sounds for hip hop, EDM, trap, pop, lo-fi, and jazz!

Four formats are included - Logic Pro EXS/Sampler, Ableton Sampler, SFZ (use with the free Sforzando plugin for any DAW), and Kontakt"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KTgStPycpy8

Sanjay's youtube channel is informative light hearted.

[R_A]

Hot prices, but they do good work:

http://www.klassickeysgb.com/rhodes-stock/4591499148

If you're a competent sound recordist (or work with a great sound engineer) and want to present the instrument in stripped down arrangements or compose for solo electric piano — I think you'll only be happy with the real deal.

[Arpangel]

8 additional presets give you unique sounds for hip hop, EDM, trap, pop, lo-fi, and jazz!

Hmmm? I don’t make hip hop, EDM, trap, pop, lo-fi, and Jazz.

Hot prices, but they do good work:

http://www.klassickeysgb.com/rhodes-stock/4591499148

If you're a competent sound recordist (or work with a great sound engineer) and want to present the instrument in stripped down arrangements or compose for solo electric piano — I think you'll only be happy with the real deal.

I’m not a competent sound recordist, and I don’t work with a great sound engineer, apart from myself, and I’m still looking for the "real deal"

[Hugh Robjohns]

8 additional presets give you unique sounds for hip hop, EDM, trap, pop, lo-fi, and jazz!

Hmmm? I don’t make hip hop, EDM, trap, pop, lo-fi, and Jazz.

...but you do have very particular -- some might say unique -- tastes!

[Arpangel]

8 additional presets give you unique sounds for hip hop, EDM, trap, pop, lo-fi, and jazz!

Hmmm? I don’t make hip hop, EDM, trap, pop, lo-fi, and Jazz.

...but you do have very particular -- some might say unique -- tastes!

Like a lot of us Hugh, I just make my own music.

[N i g e l]

Like a lot of us Hugh, I just make my own music.

there can be only 1 Arpangel [as heard on national radio ] !

Dont be stuck in a 60's paradigm, its been done, get somthing with room for expansion, that does what you want but has room for you to stamp your identity & experience on to.

[R_A]

I’m not a competent sound recordist, and I don’t work with a great sound engineer, apart from myself, and I’m still looking for the "real deal"

In that case, consider getting a few private lessons with a great engineer - in your space, once you have the instrument. There will be a cool, generous pro somewhere who will be happy to spend time teaching at a fair rate - this will ensure that you get the best out of your Rhodes!

Good luck with the search and whatever you record with it!

[chanceoperation]

Two ideas:

Before anything, grab a copy of AAS Lounge Lizard EP-4. It's on holiday sale still. I wouldn't wait. Even if you don't end up living with it, use it for research. I'll bet your chances of finding the sound you are after are 90%+. At least then you'll be very familiar with what you want and how to get it.

Fact is, your description of multiple quick repeats with a feel that you are working real tines and hammers and pickups is just a natural for physical modelling, and AAS do electro-mechanical pm better than anyone. Samples just cannot do what you ask. You've got to be inside the means of sound production.

Idea two is: Your key-bed is going to be really important. Any lack of fidelity of weight, response, return, and sensor response is going to be critical. Of course, all MIDI key-beds are a compromise, but given your style, I suspect there will be only a few available that meet your needs.

I bought a Rhodes Mark I 73 key suitcase new, a long long time ago, and played it for years. I completely (I think) understand what you are imagining. But it is fair to say that the keyboard was not the greatest. It did the repeat-bounce-bell-gong as you describe, but not at any tempo or volume, and not on any key (as I recall, range mattered, but I can't recall which range was more amenable).

I bet you can do very well with a modern quality key-bed and a good modelled VI. If you do get a Rhodes, make sure the action is in great condition and it's properly setup.

Of course, nothing matches the presence and vibe of sitting down at a real Rhodes.

Good luck.

[Dave B]

I do wonder if a certain amount of the sound that you are after comes from the amp and mic combination as well as the basic Rhodes sound. There are a variety of different ways of doing this and a load of amps and mics that could be used.

So I wonder if trying to find a perfect sound off the bat from a demo of a keyboard will give you what you want? Would it not make sense to try a few units out and see if you can build the sound you like?

(I appreciate that that means going into a store, so that's not an option right now, but will be in due course)

[The Elf]

I do wonder if a certain amount of the sound that you are after comes from the amp and mic combination as well as the basic Rhodes sound. There are a variety of different ways of doing this and a load of amps and mics that could be used.

That's certainly what I do with my reface CP - without an amp simulator it's not really the sound I'm after.

The worst Rhodes, for me, are the ones that velocity-switch between soft and hard samples. Unfortunately, in my experience, that tends to be most of them.

[Animalbeats]

"Fender Rhodes restoration group” on Facebook is a good community for learning.

Miracle mod, parts and tuning.

They were designed to be user serviced

[Arpangel]

Like a lot of us Hugh, I just make my own music.

there can be only 1 Arpangel [as heard on national radio ] !

Dont be stuck in a 60's paradigm, its been done, get somthing with room for expansion, that does what you want but has room for you to stamp your identity & experience on to.

Thanks everyone, for all your input, I think there’s a lot of important things mentioned here, like, there are so many variables, mic's, amps, pedals, etc, in the sounds that are on some of my favourite records.
Nigel, it’s not a 60’s thing, I love playing acoustic piano, it's one sound, and millions of people have stamped their identity on it, just like a Rhodes piano, I’m happy with it as an instrument, it’s a done deal I think, I won’t be happy until I’ve got one.

[SecretSam]

I am not a keys player of any ability, but to these untutored fingers, part of the Rhodes is the distinctive, bouncy feel of the keyboard.

I tried an Akai mpk about ten years ago that felt similar. Dunno whether the new ones feel the same.

[Arpangel]

I am not a keys player of any ability, but to these untutored fingers, part of the Rhodes is the distinctive, bouncy feel of the keyboard.

I tried an Akai mpk about ten years ago that felt similar. Dunno whether the new ones feel the same.

Thanks, I think Akai have stopped making the larger keyboards, but I guess that’s why some folks buy things like the Zarenbourg, or a Viscount, because they have the form factor, and keyboard feel similar to an original.

[Hugh Robjohns]

....I won’t be happy until I’ve got one.

If you'd promise to be happy afterwards I think I could persuade the whole forum to chip in!

[Arpangel]

....I won’t be happy until I’ve got one.

If you'd promise to be happy afterwards I think I could persuade the whole forum to chip in!

That’s very thoughtful of you Hugh, in fact, I’m feeling so bad now, I’m not sure I can record anything until I’ve got a Rhodes, it’s really depressing ( as Arpangel reaches for the anti-depressants)