recording a three piece

[thescientist]

tried this in the microphone and miking forum, no luck, maybe this will work.

So I'm going to be doing some live recordings of a three piece rock band next week, and I'm just curious as to some good ways to track/pan their instruments. (not sure if this is the right forum, so I understand if it needs to be moved)

Anyway, when I've recorded before, generally I had some extra guitar tracks from studio overdubs or the live band had multiple guitars, so getting a blanced stereo spectrum was pretty easy, since I had 2 guitars, bass, drums, and vocals and there was a pretty even balance of each instrument on each side. However, since this is bass, guitar, and drums, normally I center bass and drums and pan the guitar and vocals to help balance things out. However, since there will only be one guitar, I'm not sure how to best do this. I know I could just double track the guitar or split the guitar signal to two amps, but this would sound awkward during lead parts, as you wouldn't hear any rythm underneath, or whatever, and its live so no overdubs here.

So how do you guys approach three piece recordings?

[Richard Graham]

How I do it is

Vocals straight to track via pre-amp
DI the bass from the bass-players amp
Close-mike on of the speakers of the guitarists stack with a cheap dynamic (part of a drum mic kit I picked up for about £40): sounds great with no EQ, the 4x12 has a great sound.

For the drums I've got 5 channels left and its a double kick kit.
So a dynamic in each kick drum and one on the snare top.

Then I've got a pair of Tandy PZMs. I've taken the backing plate off them both and positioned them on boom-stands left and right of the kit, as close in as possible to the toms and cymbals without getting too close to any one drum or cymbal. I try for as close to equidistant with every part of the top of the kit, though this not really possible, I can get close.

Once EQed and mixed I get a decent sound.

Everything panned centre by the way, apart from vocal reverb and the PZMs, which I pan at about 9:30 and 2:30 o clock.

[IvanSC]

Or you could try a D112 on the sofa,and a coincident apir of AKG C1000s on the armchairs.
If they are overstuffed the C1000`s brilliance will compensate for any excessive absorption.

D112 because you tend to get a lot of early reflection off the skirt at the bottom of the sofa, which the less sensitive response curve of the D112 in the upper registers will tend to lessen.

Hope this helps.

[thescientist]

cool, yeah the above suggestions are pretty much the same methods for recording I was going to use, but I was more looking at how to pan the instruments in stereo. Normally I would have bass drums center, and guitars panned a little to the left and right, but in this case only there's one guitar. I don't want it to sound lopsided by having bass on left and guitar on right (or whatever), nor do I want to shove everything in the center. Just thinking of how to best balance the sounds from left ro right.

[TapeOpAl]

cool, yeah the above suggestions are pretty much the same methods for recording I was going to use, but I was more looking at how to pan the instruments in stereo. Normally I would have bass drums center, and guitars panned a little to the left and right, but in this case only there's one guitar. I don't want it to sound lopsided by having bass on left and guitar on right (or whatever), nor do I want to shove everything in the center. Just thinking of how to best balance the sounds from left ro right.

Two things that come to mind are put the bass on the left and the guitar on the right or do something to create two different guitar sounds and pan them left and right.

If the guitarist is using a 4x12 you should be able to get enough low end to match the bass guitar and make the bottom feel centred. Try a D12/112 or other kick drum orientated mic on the 4x12 as well as a 57 or your usual choice.

To create two different guitar sounds to pan there are a few different things to try:
-Put two pics on the cab and pan them.
-Van Halen style - have a dry guitar hard right and the reverb return hard left (or vice versa)
-Two amps?
-Short delay, single repeat on one side.
-Modulation on one side but it might get phasey if you try and process only one side.

I think anything you do could sound weird when he plays a solo other than putting everything down the middle... or you could try everything down the middle and have a few panned effects that come in and out - ping pong delays or some modulation or something.

Is this a gig recording - is there a particular reason why you can't do overdubs?

[thescientist]

cool, yeah the above suggestions are pretty much the same methods for recording I was going to use, but I was more looking at how to pan the instruments in stereo. Normally I would have bass drums center, and guitars panned a little to the left and right, but in this case only there's one guitar. I don't want it to sound lopsided by having bass on left and guitar on right (or whatever), nor do I want to shove everything in the center. Just thinking of how to best balance the sounds from left ro right.

Two things that come to mind are put the bass on the left and the guitar on the right or do something to create two different guitar sounds and pan them left and right.

If the guitarist is using a 4x12 you should be able to get enough low end to match the bass guitar and make the bottom feel centred. Try a D12/112 or other kick drum orientated mic on the 4x12 as well as a 57 or your usual choice.

To create two different guitar sounds to pan there are a few different things to try:
-Put two pics on the cab and pan them.
-Van Halen style - have a dry guitar hard right and the reverb return hard left (or vice versa)
-Two amps?
-Short delay, single repeat on one side.
-Modulation on one side but it might get phasey if you try and process only one side.

I think anything you do could sound weird when he plays a solo other than putting everything down the middle... or you could try everything down the middle and have a few panned effects that come in and out - ping pong delays or some modulation or something.

Is this a gig recording - is there a particular reason why you can't do overdubs?

no, its a garage recording that needs to be done by the end of this week, so time is a slight factor, but more so, this is how they play live, and as such the proper tracking/panning here will be very helpful when doing live recordings of them or other similar bands in the future. Of course I could do multiple amps, delays, split the signal, etc, but not for this. At some point when we have time to dedicate to more studio like recordings then yeah, I will definitely do overdubs and the such.

[captainbigmuff]

Rage Against the Machine and Muse use a trick of clean DI bass down the centre, guitar on one side of stereo and fuzz treated high pass filtered duplicate of the bass down the other - sounds big cos the fuzz bass sounds like another guitar line!
Just split the bass signal with a DI and take the output straight to the desk and and put the thru through a Sansamp or even a guitar amp on overdrive channel and be careful of ground loops (lift the ground if necessary).

[thescientist]

Rage Against the Machine and Muse use a trick of clean DI bass down the centre, guitar on one side of stereo and fuzz treated high pass filtered duplicate of the bass down the other - sounds big cos the fuzz bass sounds like another guitar line!
Just split the bass signal with a DI and take the output straight to the desk and and put the thru through a Sansamp or even a guitar amp on overdrive channel and be careful of ground loops (lift the ground if necessary).

ah, that sounds cool! sweet, will definitely be giving that a try. thanks!