Soundproofing best bang for the buck

[Sir Tendeth]

Hello,

I'm the music director at a church and my boss has a chunk of money (maybe $3k-$5k) he'd like to put toward music and after we talked, we settled on putting that money toward making my office a space for recording. There's no way we come up with the amount to fully make a studio (about $50k), but I'd like to use the money to soundproof the room as best as possible with the money we have, so I can make mid-level quality recordings. I'd like to prioritize sound isolation, as I don't want to be redoing takes because of passing traffic and the like, although I'm not against using some of the money for acoustic treatment.

I'm not against pre-fab or DIY, and while I'd like to get the whole space isolated, I'm okay with a booth as part of the room. I'd like a space big enough for a spinet piano or a medium drum set, along with room to stand.

I already have a computer, sound board, mics, instruments, etc. I really want to use this money on making a quiet space.

Could I get suggestions about how best to use this money for materials, assuming that this is all of the money that will ever be spent on the project? I want to get as quiet a room as possible, with acoustic treatment a secondary consideration.

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Budget: $3k-5k

Room dimension: 9' x 12', 8' ceiling. One of the 9' walls has a 1.5' x 2' drywalled column (probably for ductwork) that cuts into the room.

Walls: Composition: basic office drywall over metal studs except for external wall, which adds a brick facade, maybe more. 12' wall to choir room with solid wood door, 9' wall to choir library, 12' wall to mechanical room, 9' wall with column to outside. External wall has 3' x 5' single paned window.

Ceiling: 2' x 2' office panels, single 4' x 2' light with LED bulbs, single 2' x 2' AC duct.

Floor: commercial carpet over concrete.

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Thank you in advance for your time and expertise!

Brandon Folts

[RichardT]

What are the levels of background noise you’re experiencing at the moment? Is it traffic you’re mostly concerned about?

[Sam Spoons]

Hi and welcome Brandon,

Are you also planning to mix in the studio?

Acoustic treatment should not be a secondary consideration, in many ways it's more important than soundproofing insomuch as while it's inconvenient having to redo a take spoiled by traffic noise an untreated room will result in all recordings being sub-par.

On the plus side acoustic treatment is much cheaper than effective soundproofing and in a small room like yours and I'd guess that $500 - $1000* should be enough to get good results.

There are lots of threads on here at the moment about soundproofing and acoustic treatment, probably the most detailed WRT soundproofing aa small space is Eddy Deegan's here https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=74805

* I built DIY acoustic treatment for my own 13' x 13' studio for around £350, it looks good and is pretty effective.

[Sir Tendeth]

Richard:

As I write this, I'm listening to a plane pass overhead and I'm next to some external AC units and a children's playground. I don't notice much at all from the mechanical room next to me and the other rooms will be vacant, serving as some noise protection. It's mostly the outside world that I'm worried about- loud trucks, planes, children, AC units.

And there goes a weed eater...

Sam:

Thanks for the welcome; it's nice being able to get feedback from this knowledgeable community!

I expect much of the recordings to be self-mixed, so yes, likely inside the room. I do have some space in an adjoining room that I could put the computer and any other noisy equipment to keep

I agree that the acoustical treatment of the room is important. The reason I'm putting such an emphasis on sound isolation is because I can find a few hundred dollars in our budget for acoustics, but I'm not going to find thousands, so I want to use this one-time gift to its fullest. Also, with any soundproofing being structural, acoustics would go on top of that, so I want to address the bones before dressing it.

I will definitely look at acoustics too; I just wondered what I could accomplish for sound isolation on a small budget.

[Sam Spoons]

If the issue is noise from outside the building then double glazing and sealing all gaps to the outside world is step one, cheap and easy. This might be enough.

The next step is to build a room within a room structure. I'm not an expert but have read enough to feel that a booth is unlikely to be the best solution, especially one big enough for a drum kit in a 9' x 12' room*, you might as well build the booth as big as can be fitted (say 8' x 11' x 7' high). It's perfectly possible to do a DIY job as long as you pay attention to detail. Read Eddy's thread for advice in materials and construction methods, it's not rocket science.

WRT mixing in the same room, that is what most of us do and it works fine. If you are recording only a couple of musicians at a time, or playing yourself it's actually rather more convenient having the recording gear in with you.

* a 6' x 6' booth is going to leave you with a 9' x 5' closet alongside which is not much use for anything.

[James Perrett]

If the prices in your area are similar to the UK then you can probably do a basic room within a room for your budget if you can do everything yourself (and find qualified volunteers for the electrics). It sounds like the existing ceiling is a suspended ceiling - can you remove it to give you extra height? Is it possible to fit secondary glazing to the existing window?

As I'm in the UK, I don't know what materials are available where you are (presumably in the US) but my suggestion would be to go for a structure that is completely separate to the existing structure sitting on rubber strips where the structure meets the floor. I used a layer of rubber crumbs made from old tyres for this which is sold as carpet underlay here. I built a stud frame from timber with 45kg/m mineral wool between the studs and then a layer of 19mm plasterboard plank, a layer of Green Glue and a layer of 12mm acoustic plasterboard (the blue stuff rather than the grey stuff). I left myself the option of adding another layer of Green Glue and then a layer of 15mm acoustic plasterboard but found that, in my case, the isolation was good enough without it. The roof construction is the same as the walls but with thicker beams to prevent sagging.

I used 60 minute fire doors and would suggest using at least 6mm glass in the window. Don't forget ventilation either - I've snaked fairly long lengths of flexible acoustic ducting in the void between the inner and outer roof to help reduce sound transmission through the ventilation system. Apart from the ventilation, everything needs to be well sealed.

[Martin Walker]

Hi Sir Tendeth, and welcome to the SOS Forums!

If the issue is noise from outside the building then double glazing and sealing all gaps to the outside world is step one, cheap and easy. This might be enough.

I echo this point of Sam's - if you can eliminate (or at the very least significantly reduce) sound leakage by blocking the more obvious ways that noise from the outside world can get in, you may find this sufficient to prevent recordings being compromised, and still benefit from this generous donation with acoustic treatment that will make all your recordings sound a lot better.

However, the next step on the soundproofing side is a hell of a lot more physical work (EDIT: James' post while I was still typing mine gives you an idea, so the scope of that should put the amount of work into more perspective), and while with some knowledge and DIY expertise you can create the classic 'room within a room' within a budget like yours, you ideally need an acoustic consultant to advise you (even Eddy Deegan in his already six-page thread linked to above, detailing his largely DIY approach, had an expert on site initially to advise him on all the theory and constructional techniques, and I'm sure Eddy would agree it's been a huge amount of work for him over a period of months).

The problem with the 'room within a room' approach (which is essential for really successful soundproofing when it's needed) is that if the builder makes any mistakes that result in this room not being a perfectly floating structure, then the amount of soundproofing will be seriously compromised. This means that even with advice from an acoustic consultant, it's common for an outside builder or DIYer to inadvertently make a mistake, clobbering the end result without realising it, and with no real way to undo the damage.

I'm not trying to put you off, but to try to put soundproofing into perspective. Acoustic treatment can be done an ad ad hoc basis as you go along, but the approach to soundproofing needs to be carefully thought before you do anything practical.

As this is a one-off and very generous financial gift, I really advise you to get expert on-site advice from an acoustic consultant BEFORE doing anything.

Hope this helps!

Martin

[Eddy Deegan]

... the soundproofing side is a hell of a lot more physical work ... Eddy Deegan in his already six-page thread linked to above, detailing his largely DIY approach, had an expert on site initially to advise him on all the theory and constructional techniques, and I'm sure Eddy would agree it's been a huge amount of work for him over a period of months).

I did consult an expert and I would certainly agree it's been a huge amount of work

That said, my space is somewhat bigger and it's effectively a new build so I've had some additional things to consider with regards to airflow behind the insulation and building regulations.

Soundproofing is mainly about mass and movement combined with sealing every point of leakage. Lots of heavy stuff surrounding the environment you want to protect, but with the ability to flex, converting sound into tiny amounts of heat in the process.

Brandon, you say that your room is 9x12 and mostly constructed of drywall on studs. This gives you two options as I see it.

1) Increase the mass and depth of the existing walls and ceiling

This would involve locating all the existing studs and lining the walls and ceiling with two layers of acoustic plasterboard mounted either on resilient channels or genie clips and with a sound absorbent layer such as Green Glue in between them.

It helps if the two layers of plasterboard are of different thicknesses, and the thicker one should be at the back. I would think that 15mm (0.6") as the back layer and 12mm (just under 0.5") as the front is probably thick enough for your purposes but seek advice.

Resilient bars are fairly cheap and readily available, as is acoustic plasterboard. The Green Glue compound between them would be something of an investment although it is cheaper in the USA than it is in the UK. You need about 1.8 litres (1.6 quarts) of Green Glue compound per 32 square feet of plasterboard.

Genie clips are definitely worth looking into. They are an engineered steel clip mounted in a rubber bush which screws to wall studs. A furring channel then attaches to the genie clips and you screw the plasterboard to that channel (making absolutely sure the screw tip has an gap between it and any solid surface behind the plasterboard). They offer 4-6dB better attenuation than resilient bar but are a little more expensive. More information here: https://pliteq.com/products/sound-contr ... eclip-rst/

If you enhance the existing walls/ceiling then you should verify that the existing structure is robust enough to support the significant weight of 2 layers of acoustic plasterboard. A 15mm sheet of 8x4 board weighs in the region of 90lb.

2) Build a room within a room

This would involve constructing new stud walls from 2x4 timber and positioning them an inch or two away from the existing walls (boxing around the existing column you mention). These stud walls would be backed with acoustic plasterboard (or some form of breathable membrane) and insulated with Rockwool RW3 (60Kg/m3). On the front of them, resilient bar and two layers of acoustic plasterboard as detailed previously.

You can combine this with either a new ceiling (sitting atop the inner stud walls), also constructed from 2x4 with RW3 insulation and lined with two layers of acoustic plasterboard on resilient channel or genie clips, or you can add a secondary ceiling to the existing one (assuming it is strong enough).

For the window, you can look into getting acoustic glazing or possibly adding a layer of clearsorber to the existing glazing, mounted as a secondary surface in a tight-fitting frame.

Your concrete floor is probably the least of your worries but you could lay a new surface and sit any new stud walls on top of an isolation layer such as acoustic matting as James mentioned.

The room-within-a-room would give better results in all probability but I will echo what Martin said and recommend you get some expert advice, especially where air-ducts and ventilation is concerned. Installing resilient bar is possible to do on a DIY basis but you have to be really careful to ensure that none of the plasterboard screws come into contact with any existing surface behind the bars.

You also need to avoid rigid connections between any two planes on the walls, floor and ceiling. All surfaces should have a small gap around their periphery which you can caulk with acoustic sealant, and which permits them to move independently of each other.

The truth is that soundproofing is a huge amount of work but a bit of research and being reasonably handy with DIY certainly helps. If you're willing to do much of it yourself then I think you can probably do it within the budget you have as the space involved isn't overly big.

[Watchmaker]

I know you're thinking soundproofing, but perhaps soundproofing is not entirely on point for your needs. You can lower your ambient noise floor and significantly reduce the obtrusiveness of unwanted sound in myriad ways and arrive at perfectly serviceable recordings without all the hassle and difficulty of soundproofing.

My question to you is, how pristine do you need/want this space to be? Also, how flexible is your recording versus mixing schedule? Can you record in off hours when the kids are tucked away and traffic is light and then mix, etc. during the day?

One of the things that's stuck in my mind, partly from the collective recording wisdom here at SOS, is the primacy of acoustic treatment in the mix position. This is not the same as have a good sounding room for recording/performing and though you should consider the acoustics of both the monitoring and performance/recording spaces, the consistent message is that creating a small orb of space where you can accurately hear the sonics coming from the monitors is a necessity. Moot if you mix exclusively on headphones. You must be able to hear accurately so you can make decisions based on good data. I know that after I treated my space my mixes transfer a million times better to other systems.

As Sam said "an untreated room will result in all recordings being sub-par." It's profound how much impact the room has - way more than the weedwacker or helicopter ever will.

Also, while I'm all garrulous and stuff, I just don't see how $5k spent trying to soundproof a preexisting room without any acoustic design considerations baked in will get very far. Plus you won't have anything left over for treatment or a pizza party after the work is done!

I am going to do what the inestimable Hugh Robjohns did and install some (DIY) Clearsorber panels to reduce window leakage, as mentioned here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/studio-sos-making-small-room-sound-good

[RichardT]

Brandon says that he has one external wall and not much sound will come from other directions. Is it possible to reduce costs by concentrating just on that one wall?

[Luke W]

Brandon says that he has one external wall and not much sound will come from other directions. Is it possible to reduce costs by concentrating just on that one wall?

Certainly not my area of expertise, but I'd imagine that as all of the walls/ceiling are connected then you'd be unlikely to see much benefit, if any at all unfortunately. Aside from the obvious culprits like doors and windows, it's the coupling between parts of a structure that are where your noise is going to get through.

[Eddy Deegan]

Brandon says that he has one external wall and not much sound will come from other directions. Is it possible to reduce costs by concentrating just on that one wall?

I'd be wary of restricting things to a single surface as although it may be a sort-of solution at this point, it may not be enough if for whatever reason things change elsewhere in the building and increase the noise from other quarters.

The sounds of trucks, planes, children and AC units may be most evident from that wall but it may well be masking the same noises coming in from other places as well (especially planes) and it would be a pain to have to revisit the project once the equipment and any acoustic treatment is in place so I'd be inclined to do it as thoroughly as possible given the budget.

In the early stages of my project external sound came through the temporary OSB coverings on the window apertures quite clearly. Once the windows with acoustic glazing were in, the sound seemed to be coming from the roof. As I insulated the roof the sound 'moved back' into the room and remained quite noticable until I'd finished the whole ceiling.

[Drew Stephenson]

Have been meaning to comment on this thread but really everything has been covered.
I think the key thing is if you are willing and able to do the work yourself (or with other church volunteers). If so, and if you're careful, your budget might just do the job (be sure to factor in the cost of an acoustician's assessment up-front, it will pay for itself). If you're having to pay for labour as well, then I think your going to struggle on your budget.
And the thing about sound-proofing is that it's a bit of an all or nothing thing.
Sound treatment can easily be done in stages, sound proofing doesn't work like that. So unless your acoustician recommends it, I'd steer clear of the idea of trying to treat just the outside wall.

[Sir Tendeth]

Hi again,

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone chiming in here. While I don' t have all of the answers yet, you guys have really helped me to find the right questions. Replies to individuals:

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All: I definitely will be doing acoustic treatment to the room. That should be a small enough amount to find in my budget. This is to see if a few thousand dollars could be deployed to make the room significantly quieter.

James: The ceiling height is fixed as there are ducts directly over the ceiling tiles. No extra height to be gained

Eddy: Thank you so much for your in-depth suggestions. They will be incredibly helpful during this process. Also, it made me smile when you converted litres to quarts for me. It's sad that the US has rightly earned its reputation for educational obstinance. By the way, litres (or liters as they're called here) are the one metric unit that the US is most comfortable with, considering our carbonated drinks commonly come in 2-liters. Still appreciated though!

Watchmaker: The main time available for recording will be daytime, but it's possible to record during off-times. The point of this post is to see if I could make a space where I don't have to. Also, yes, a pizza party sounds wonderful!

blinddrew: We have a member of the church who is both an amateur musician in a band and professionally a construction/fix it guy. If he would be willing to trade his man hours for some studio hours, maybe we make it work. I just want to have my plan in place before pulling that trigger.

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As it stands, I will be speaking this afternoon to a friend of a friend with contacts to the professional recording world to see his thoughts on the project and if he knows someone to professionally advise.

Again, thank you to everyone. I will keep you posted on progress as the situation evolves.

[Sam Spoons]

Good to hear we may have helped. Keep us posted

[Eddy Deegan]

... thank you to everyone. I will keep you posted on progress as the situation evolves.

Thanks for following up Brandon. It would be very interesting to see how your project pans out so please do update us going forward and in the meantime if you have any further questions, have any lessons learned during the process you'd like to share here for the benefit of all, or want to talk through anything else, do let us know

[Watchmaker]

We thrive on picture diaries of people's studio upgrades so take plenty of pics and share!

[Luke W]

Great stuff, looking forward to hearing how you get on.