How to incorporate MODX into existing setup?

[Special Monkey]

I have a Yamaha MODX and MG06 mixer coming and want to use them with an existing MOTU M2 (audio interface) + JBL 3 MII monitor setup. I believe my monitors only accept balanced input.

I'm running Windows 10 and currently use Ableton Live Lite or Reaper as my DAW.

I want to monitor:

- MODX (tone generated audio + VSTi)
- MOTU M2 inputs
- DAW playback

Additionally, I have a separate USB/MIDI keyboard (Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol A61) I'd like to continuing using/monitoring it in my DAW.

I know MODX is also an audio interface. I know I can only select one audio interface for use at a time in my DAW.

I'm confused what will happen when using the MODX audio interface in my DAW in terms of monitoring.

Can I monitor the MODX via the MOTU M2 (outputs to monitors), because I have the MOTU M2 selected as my Windows output device, even if my DAW is using the MODX as its audio interface? Or can I only monitor MODX via its unbalanced outputs when using the MODX as an audio interface in my DAW?

With a mixer or without, but especially with, I think I have a few possibilities. I'd like to know which is best. MODX's unbalanced ins and outs seem to make certain approaches better than others.

Some things I've thought of:

1a) If MODX can only be monitored via its unbalanced outs, plug them into mixer, plug MOTU M2's balanced outs into mixer, plug mixer's balanced outs into monitor's balanced ins?

1b) Assuming MODX USB-to-host can be monitored by selecting MOTU M2 (outputs to monitors) as Windows output device; send balanced output to monitors from mixer outs, plug MOTU M2 outs to mixer.

1c) No mixer. Assumes MODX USB-to-host can be monitored via MOTU M2 (outputs to monitors) by selecting MOTU M2 as Windows output device. Use MODX interface when recording keyboard. Use MOTU M2 for guitar, vocals, etc.

2) Plug MODX unbalanced outs into mixer, plug mixer's balanced outs into MOTU M2's ins (don't know if MOTU M2 expects balanced or unbalanced ins, maybe either?) - leaves a few unused mixer ins for guitar, vocals, etc. MOTU M2 (outputs to monitors). Depending on complexity of MODX performance, could choose not to use MODX as interface in DAW.

3) Plug mixer outs into MODX A/D L/R ins - IMODX has unbalanced ins, I believe this mixer's outs are balanced... Plug MODX outs into monitors (monitors only want balanced ins) - perhaps some balanced to unbalanced converters could be used, like Whirlwind Little Imp or Imp 2? Plug MOTU M2 outs into mixer. Could potentially use MODX as interface for all.

4) Probably a few possibilities I haven't considered.

Thanks for any guidance!

[The Elf]

I see no reason to add a mixer into this system.

If you find yourself needing more inputs, the get an audio interface with appropriately sufficient I/O.

[Special Monkey]

Thanks for your help. Currently my monitors are attached to the MOTU M2 outs. After installing MODX's ASIO driver, do you know if I'll be able to monitor the MODX (tone generated audio + VSTi) - via its USB, while selecting the MOTU M2 device as Windows output? If no, what's the best way to monitor both MOTU M2 inputs and MODX outputs (tone generated + MIDI/VSTi)?

When you suggest getting an interface with more inputs, are you suggesting being able to plug the MODX 1/4" L/R outs into the expanded interface?

Does this then affect using the MODX USB interface for recording? I understand that's its main benefit, i.e. - the MODX interface is setup for working with MODX's layered performance & track output.

It seems I might be able to use an interface with more I/O, and monitor through it, as you suggest, but while using the MODX's audio interface for recoding in the DAW? I'm still confused if the MODX's output (going through the expanded interface) will be able to monitor the MODX.

[The Elf]

You will need to connect the MODX's audio outputs to the audio interface - you won't be using its audio-over-USB facility, since you can only have one ASIO driver selected in a Windows DAW.*

*[There are some devices (e.g. Elektron, with its 'Overbridge' technology) that come with a VST 'bridge' that can carry audio, and I am not aware if the MODX is in this category.]

[Special Monkey]

In this case, with my current 2 input MOTU M2 audio interface, does it make sense to use a mixer, plugging both existing interface and MODX into appropriate mixer ins, and send mixer outs to monitors ? This way I can monitor each MOTU M2 and MODX? Plus to record the MODX it seems using its driver is the best option, this should allow me to while monitoring via mixer.

[The Elf]

In this case, with my current 2 input MOTU M2 audio interface, does it make sense to use a mixer, plugging both existing interface and MODX into appropriate mixer ins, and send mixer outs to monitors ? This way I can monitor each MOTU M2 and MODX?

You could do it this way, but there's no need. Your audio interface should be capable of letting you hear your DAW and a mix of whatever you have plugged into its inputs at the same time. That's how AIs are intended to work.

This is one of those scenarios where a mixer really isn't the best answer, and it begins to create complications and compromises.

Plus to record the MODX it seems using its driver is the best option, this should allow me to while monitoring via mixer.

It's simpler just to use its audio outputs.

[Special Monkey]

Thanks for the info. I'm new to this. I think what you're saying is: forget trying to use the MODX audio interface in conjunction with my MOTU M2. Just use the MOTU M2, or a different audio interface instead with more inputs, and plug the MODX's out(s) into the audio interface's in(s)? I should still be able to monitor and record MODX MIDI in the DAW this way, using the MOTU M2's ASIO driver (as well as the MODX's audio via the MOTU M2 inputs).

I was under the impression the point of the MODX interface is to provide ins/outs to the DAW, in a way that separates a MODX performance into different tracks, or that it is in some other ways optimized for recording the MODX. Maybe I can achieve the same or similar with the MOTU M2 ASIO driver.

[N i g e l]

I am a recent MODX user so still learning its ins and outs.

My mixer drives my monitors &
the MODX, Sound card & other stuff go into the mixer.

Great for jamming.

When I turn on the PC for DAW use, I can use the sound card inputs + MODX stereo out [mix] in order to get tracking.

But for detailed MODX editing eg when I want each track to have a different VST DAW effect, or when the BigKNob works on more than 1 track, I need to switch over my DAW from soundcard to MODX drivers.
This is done [in cakewalk] by unticking the soundcard inputs and ticking the MODX inputs.

A bit of a chore and not ideal if I want to iteratively create content from the soundcard and then run it through the effects on the MODX.

The problem is running 2 asio drivers at once. There was a recent thread discussing this and suggested work arounds [using various apps] but with certain restrictions like having both sets of audio synched.

Ive not tried that yet but its on my todo list

[The Elf]

I was under the impression the point of the MODX interface is to provide ins/outs to the DAW...

You can only select one ASIO driver under Windows, so it's either your MODX *or* your AI. Given the pain that this can be I'd suggest only using your AI as the hub of your system.

[Sam Spoons]

Is the issue that the MODX is multichannel/multitimbral over USB but only has stereo analogue outputs?

[The Elf]

Is the issue that the MODX is multichannel/multitimbral over USB but only has stereo analogue outputs?

A lot of gear acts like this - Roland's newer drum machines, for example. But you can still only have one ASIO driver selected. If you're prepared to go back and forth (with the re-jigging of cables also required) it's fine. Personally I feel life's too short for that kind of malarky!

[Sam Spoons]

That's what I thought. If the OP was on a Mac he could have an aggregate device set up. I do so I can use the Headrush via USB alongside the X32 but I only select that option when I need it. It seems to work fine but is a bit of a faff. But he's not so.....

[The Elf]

When I last decided to bite the bullet and switch ASIO driver to do this it completely banjaxed my I/O assignments. It took me a lot of effort to get everything back to normal afterwards, and I was tripping over bits I'd missed days after the event.

So really not worth it IME.

[N i g e l]

If you're prepared to go back and forth (with the re-jigging of cables also required) it's fine. Personally I feel life's too short for that kind of malarky!

I dont have to rejig any cables just tick/untick boxes in the DAW. It would be easier if there was only one box to tick [to select driver setup ] but I would prefer a mixed AI/MODX workflow to be seamless.

The software needs to catchup with the hardware.
At some point I will play around with the 3rd party apps and then write to [Yamaha]Steinberg or Cakewalk for features.

[Special Monkey]

It's great to get some more replies here, I'm glad my topic isn't completely ridiculous.

For me I think the ideal is:

- not having to switch cables to monitor or to record audio
- to use the MODX AI when recording it
- to use my default AI when recording its inputs

In this case, I think a mixer (or Mackie Big Knob?) is required?

The downside of using no mixer, as The Elf would do, is that I can only use the default AI to record MODX audio (or try to use the MODX as my exclusive AI, which probably presents too many of its own challenges). The MODX AI apparently provides the most versatility for recording the MODX. Another immediate upside/downside would be I'd want to get a better AI with more inputs.

I am a recent MODX user so still learning its ins and outs.

My mixer drives my monitors &
the MODX, Sound card & other stuff go into the mixer.

Great for jamming.

When I turn on the PC for DAW use, I can use the sound card inputs + MODX stereo out [mix] in order to get tracking.

But for detailed MODX editing eg when I want each track to have a different VST DAW effect, or when the BigKNob works on more than 1 track, I need to switch over my DAW from soundcard to MODX drivers.
This is done [in cakewalk] by unticking the soundcard inputs and ticking the MODX inputs.

A bit of a chore and not ideal if I want to iteratively create content from the soundcard and then run it through the effects on the MODX.

The problem is running 2 asio drivers at once. There was a recent thread discussing this and suggested work arounds [using various apps] but with certain restrictions like having both sets of audio synched.

Ive not tried that yet but its on my todo list

I think N i g e l's approach provides the most flexibility - except, if I interpret what he's doing for "tracking" correctly, I don't think I'd bother using my default AI at all to record MODX's stereo out.

For recording MODX's stereo out, I'd just switch to using the MODX ASIO, as N i g e l does for detailed work. I'll be able to monitor either AI (separately), due to having a mixer with both default AI and MODX AI as inputs, with monitors connected to the mixer's outs. Are my assumptions correct here?

I think using only the default AI, as The Elf recommended, would simplify things greatly, providing the versatility to record MODX and default AI inputs, simultaneously if desired, with no ASIO driver switching, and possibly keeping the signal cleaner, at the cost of perhaps not realizing the full benefits of recording MODX with the MODX ASIO driver. It might be an easier trade off if my default AI had more inputs.

The Elf's suggestion also assumes I can record MODX MIDI, selecting the MODX as controller, but still using my default AI's ASIO. This seems like it should be possible, and is how I record my Native Instruments controller (but it doesn't have its own AI)?

That's what I thought. If the OP was on a Mac he could have an aggregate device set up. I do so I can use the Headrush via USB alongside the X32 but I only select that option when I need it. It seems to work fine but is a bit of a faff. But he's not so.....

I do have 2 different Mac laptops, one a MacBook Air - 2015 I believe - that could run the latest Big Sur OS when/if MODX drivers are available and my DAWs are certified to work, and the other, an even older - 2012 I believe - MacBook Pro that can only run up to just before Big Sur - both with decent specs, both i7 with 8G ram, and both with 512G SSDs - but all my VSTs and DAWs are on my decent HP XEON Windows 10 PC with 16G. Going through installing and activating VSTs might be harsh. Is it that worthwhile to go to Mac OS? I'm not used to having such an involved setup on a laptop.

If you're prepared to go back and forth (with the re-jigging of cables also required) it's fine. Personally I feel life's too short for that kind of malarky!

I dont have to rejig any cables just tick/untick boxes in the DAW. It would be easier if there was only one box to tick [to select driver setup ] but I would prefer a mixed AI/MODX workflow to be seamless.

The software needs to catchup with the hardware.
At some point I will play around with the 3rd party apps and then write to [Yamaha]Steinberg or Cakewalk for features.

An elegant software solution that simplified this would be great. I don't think switching ASIO drivers in a project is that big a deal. Though I've not experienced what The Elf described... perhaps I will.

Is the issue that the MODX is multichannel/multitimbral over USB but only has stereo analogue outputs?

A lot of gear acts like this - Roland's newer drum machines, for example. But you can still only have one ASIO driver selected. If you're prepared to go back and forth (with the re-jigging of cables also required) it's fine. Personally I feel life's too short for that kind of malarky!

I definitely want to avoid switching cables to monitors, thus the mixer. There's also something by Mackie called a Big Knob - it's passive, and allows switching sources between 2 sets of monitors. Though I think it would work switching 2 sources to one set of monitors. Is your opinion for it the same as using a mixer in this case?

I was under the impression the point of the MODX interface is to provide ins/outs to the DAW...

You can only select one ASIO driver under Windows, so it's either your MODX *or* your AI. Given the pain that this can be I'd suggest only using your AI as the hub of your system.

I agree, but might need the versatility the MODX ASIO driver provides; and currently my default AI only has 2 inputs.

I see merits to both solutions. I'm glad I was able to (hopefully, I think) gain some clarity about the situation here. Thanks all.

MODX is supposed to arrive tomorrow!

[Sam Spoons]

If you only ever plan to record two discrete channels from the MODX then there is no significant benefit in using the MODX ASIO driver, just use an AI with sufficient inputs to accommodate the MODX plus anything else you might want to record simultaneously. The only benefit of using the MODX USB is if it can, and you plan to record more than two channels of audio from the MODX. If you can live with replugging the inputs (often less onerous than changing software settings) a 2/2 I/O interface such as you have would get the job done.

The Mackie Big Knob Passive will switch two stereo sources and two stereo monitor pairs so it will do what you are asking but it's probably unnecessary/unsuitable as you'll need your MODX outputs for recording and they can't easily feed your monitors at the same time. Better to use the direct monitoring feature of the AI (if it has one) to hear the MODX while you are tracking.

[N i g e l]

MODX is supposed to arrive tomorrow!

sounds like a fun weekend !
for your todo list...

[1] update OS to 2.51 (from last summer) if required. It had some big changes to the sequencer & FM morphing.

[2] grab the free soundsets from YAMAHA for CS80, Bosendorfer piano & Chicks Rhodes V piano if they sound at all usefull to you.

The Bosendorfer was free, is now £99 but there may be a £99 voucher online somewhere for modx users.

[Special Monkey]

If you only ever plan to record two discrete channels from the MODX then there is no significant benefit in using the MODX ASIO driver, just use an AI with sufficient inputs to accommodate the MODX plus anything else you might want to record simultaneously. The only benefit of using the MODX USB is if it can, and you plan to record more than two channels of audio from the MODX. If you can live with replugging the inputs (often less onerous than changing software settings) a 2/2 I/O interface such as you have would get the job done.

The Mackie Big Knob Passive will switch two stereo sources and two stereo monitor pairs so it will do what you are asking but it's probably unnecessary/unsuitable as you'll need your MODX outputs for recording and they can't easily feed your monitors at the same time. Better to use the direct monitoring feature of the AI (if it has one) to hear the MODX while you are tracking.

OK, it makes more sense, maybe I'll do what you and The Elf are suggesting to start. I don't think my recordings will be very complex initially. I'd still prefer not to switch out inputs more than I have to on my AI - but maybe a new AI with more ins is in my future (any recommendations)? As far as the Mackie Big Knob Passive, I was suggesting using it in the case where I'm using both interfaces, so more like the mixer setup described earlier.

MODX is supposed to arrive tomorrow!

sounds like a fun weekend !
for your todo list...

[1] update OS to 2.51 (from last summer) if required. It had some big changes to the sequencer & FM morphing.

[2] grab the free soundsets from YAMAHA for CS80, Bosendorfer piano & Chicks Rhodes V piano if they sound at all usefull to you.

The Bosendorfer was free, is now £99 but there may be a £99 voucher online somewhere for modx users.

Thanks for the tips. I was able to download each of the above, still free, from Yamaha using a promo code! Which of them do you like? I'm looking forward to the Bosendorfer and CS80 (I want to try replicating Paul McCartney's Wonderful Christmastime sound . There's one available on Soundmondo as well. How do you like the MODX?

[N i g e l]

using a promo code! Which of them do you like? I'm looking forward to the Bosendorfer and CS80 (I want to try replicating Paul McCartney's Wonderful Christmastime sound . There's one available on Soundmondo as well. How do you like the MODX?

I like the MODX a lot. I was only after the FM with a modern interface, the sample replay is a bonus, the external input is a bonus, everything else is a really nice to have bonus. The whole package is awsome !

My MODX has replaced a 1u FM rack synth from the 90s which had a 2 line LCD. Needless to say programming with the touch screen is awesome. even using the algorithm chooser is a breeze [used to have to consult a chart for that].

the Bosendorfer is now perhaps my poshist piano. I love the subtle note off string resonance.
The CS80 is full of "ahhh" sound recognition moments from old records.
The rhodes I had heard about before. Mr Coreas best [and much improved by his piano tec] rhodes was getting old and un roadworthy so it was multi sampled using a mechanical finger for different velocities on evry note.
Yamaha squeezed that into the MOTIF and now it has been less squeezed into the
MODX/MONTAGE.

thanks for the sounmodo hint, I had totally forgotten about that

[Special Monkey]

I like the MODX a lot. I was only after the FM with a modern interface, the sample replay is a bonus, the external input is a bonus, everything else is a really nice to have bonus. The whole package is awsome !

My MODX has replaced a 1u FM rack synth from the 90s which had a 2 line LCD. Needless to say programming with the touch screen is awesome. even using the algorithm chooser is a breeze [used to have to consult a chart for that].

the Bosendorfer is now perhaps my poshist piano. I love the subtle note off string resonance.
The CS80 is full of "ahhh" sound recognition moments from old records.
The rhodes I had heard about before. Mr Coreas best [and much improved by his piano tec] rhodes was getting old and un roadworthy so it was multi sampled using a mechanical finger for different velocities on evry note.
Yamaha squeezed that into the MOTIF and now it has been less squeezed into the
MODX/MONTAGE.

thanks for the sounmodo hint, I had totally forgotten about that

I think the Bosendorfer is my poshest piano too It has a certain je ne sais quoi - you're right, it seems to resonate beautifully and soothingly, especially in the middle & treble clef .

It seems like a steep learning curve. I don't know much (if anything) about synthesis, and have liked coming across great presets to making them, but aspire to get better at it.

Managing 1G of storage will be difficult. I've settled on the Bosendorfer, but can't decide if I want to fill the rest with Chick's Rhodes, the CS80, the Montage Expanded (also a free download), or keep the space for other stuff. On a cursory audition, the Montage Expanded seems to have more cool presets/performances.

I'm considering an AI with more I/O to simplify the setup. I tried using just my AI with MODX analog outs going to my AI's ins - it worked well - but I didn't like having to unplug the MODX to use my mic or guitar. More I/O should resolve this. Recording the MODX in mono could free a channel - but I thought it sounded better on 2 channels.

I thought maybe I could use my AI with the MODX AI, switching ASIO drivers when using each - not worrying about the MODX's analog outs (e.g., MODX audio via USB) - this worked, freeing the 2 ports on my AI, I could record the MODX audio, but I couldn't monitor it or even hear it for playback until I switched back to my default AI's ASIO - because my default AI has the monitors attached. I tried switching the Windows sound settings (input and output devices) in lieu of switching ASIO, but it didn't work. I couldn't figure out how I might do it in my Ableton Lite DAW either. Switching drivers for me seems slightly easier than switching cables, but still is less than ideal.

I then tried plugging my default AI's outs into a mixer's mic/line ins, along with the MODX's outs to the mixer's ins, with the mixer's outs to the monitors. The idea being to free my AI's ins. This didn't work great. I don't recall why, but I think it was a bit noisy. Maybe I didn't have the gains right. I believe this option will allow for using and monitoring either AI (by switching ASIO driver), so I may revisit if I decide not to get an AI with more I/O.

I'm currently running with the mixer's outs feeding the 2 inputs on my AI. My AI feeds the monitors. I plug my mic and guitar into the mixer's mic/line inputs - and the MODX L/R analog outs are plugged into a pair of ins on the mixer. It seems to work, keeping the gain on the AI's inputs completely down/off, and just adjusting gain, etc. on the mixer keeps noise down. I use the AI's controls for monitor and headphone levels. I think this scenario makes recording discreetly on different channels simultaneously, impossible, since the mixer's outs are going to both of the AI's ins.

One thing I needed to do is use the MODX's "quick setup" feature to set routing - (which I'd also tried to get the first 2 scenarios working) - it has the following settings:

- standalone
- midi rec on daw
- arp rec on daw
- audio rec on daw

Standalone seems to work in this case. I'm using my default AI's ASIO for everything.

Using the MODX as a controller for VSTs works well.