The mystery of my internet drop outs

[Marbury]

Well, this is a real headache as my broadband randomly drops out constantly on my windows 10 pc from the ethernet cable (being fed through tp link extender sockets
which are reasonably new in the last few months) which didn't happen until last week. The wi fi is fine when picked up from ipads and Netflix etc runs from the router fine. I have swapped the Ethernet cables, ran tests on my pc with the error "ethernet doesn't have a valid ip configuration" as well as "the default gateway is not available" The tp inks are showing 3 lights all the time, including dropouts which indicates a live internet signal. Eventually the pc picks up the internet signal after some time but the only quick way to get the drop out back is to unplug the tp link and plug in again. This would indicate a pc or extender issue BUT I used an other machine with Win 7 and hooked it direct to the router with the same drop outs (which eliminates the tp links and my upstairs machine as being the fault). To make things more complex (My BB provider who seem to be scratching their head as much as me) my master socket was very old and audibly crackly when using the phone, with some corrosion which was replaced by an engineer yesterday (they ran a test on the line which flagged a fault) but this new socket has not solved anything. I have reset the router, plugged the cable into different ethernet sockets and still the dropouts continue.

As my BB provider seem as miffed as myself, I was wondering if anyone here may be able to suggest what could be wrong ?

[James Perrett]

It is difficult to diagnose at a distance but it sounds like your PC isn't always picking up an IP address. Am I right in thinking that you are using a direct wired link to the router? Are you using DHCP on everything or do some things have a static IP address? Do you have only one DHCP server? What are these extenders that you mention?

[CS70]

Yeah, tough to look at these things without sitting there.

There can be a lot of reasons, from hardware (physical) to driver to software.

1) Extenders are usually a nightmare, with poor firmware, unreliable connection capabilities and very hard to monitor and debug (you often have to use a laptop connected directly via ethernet or swap Wifi to access the built-in configuration server, whose web server component (for the web interface) usually craps out often as it's some old version of Catalina which leaks memory and there's not enough memory on board to run it properly. Even testing the bloody things is hard because they may well use different paths internally for wired and wireless work.

Intermittent connection to the extender (most often due to this one crapping out rather than the signal strength itself) are a common reason. Check also the channel on which the extender works, if it's very congested you will have lots of collisions, packet losses and the endpoint device will think the net has gone down as it won't stick to the (fast) timeouts expected on a wired connection.

Mesh systems appear to be a little better in that respect.

2) Assuming the extender works, usually this is a network driver issue, or a device conflict. Or a malfunction in the card, of course, but it's unlikely. Network cards can also have badly written drivers. On one of the PCs I have I use a cheap 5G USB dongle whose drivers, under certain circumstances, lose the connection and do not recover it - the quickest fix is to unplug and plug again. It happens very rarely so it's fine, but I dont expect that driver to be fixed anytime soon.

3) You may have software that has installed virtual devices that conflict with it. I installed a tool to do AirPlay on the PC the other day and it works, but when stopped it starting causing some network glitches so I now just enable the device when required.

The Window log (event viewer) may give you some hints of what's going on.

[Marbury]

Ok, I think I have managed to pinpoint the problem. It's the new Tp links. I just plugged the other machine into the router direct downstairs and it worked a treat, eliminating my router as the problem. I took the same machine upstairs and into the TP link and it dropped the same as on the other machine.

This now makes me very annoyed as I only just replaced a failed set of TP links that lasted about 4 years, so why have they failed ? All lights are showing.

[CS70]

Ahah guess which brand is my dongle?

TP Link..

[James Perrett]

Ok, I think I have managed to pinpoint the problem. It's the new Tp links. I just plugged the other machine into the router direct downstairs and it worked a treat, eliminating my router as the problem. I took the same machine upstairs and into the TP link and it dropped the same as on the other machine.

This now makes me very annoyed as I only just replaced a failed set of TP links that lasted about 4 years, so why have they failed ? All lights are showing.

I'll bet that it is a configuration issue. If you need any help then please post the make and model number of everything on your network and as much as you know about the settings. We need to know all the details if we are to have any hope of helping.

[Marbury]

Thanks, I appreciate that. The model of the links are

TP-Link TL-PA717 KIT 1-Port Gigabit Powerline Starter Kit, Data Transfer Speed Up to 1000 Mbps, Ideal for HD/3D/4K Video Streaming and Online Gaming(for Wired Only), No Configuration Required

As for settings, you will need to give me more help please as the plugs are plug and go, no settings required, unless you are referring to my internet pc settings ?

[Hugh Robjohns]

I've not had much success with TP Links via the mains. My first set died after a couple of years. That turned out to be failed electrolytic capacitors (apparently a common and known problem) which I replaced, but the units only ever gave a lacklustre and unreliable performance. In the end, I did away with them, and wired in a new Ubiquiti wifi unit upstairs at the other end of the house, and that has provided a much more stable and reliable connection.

[Marbury]

They can go back to Amazon and I will get a different brand

[James Perrett]

It may also be worth pointing out that your wiring will have a big effect on how well they work. They use fairly high frequency signals which may be attenuated by your wiring - especially if they are on different circuits and there is a long distance between the power line adaptor and your fusebox.

[Marbury]

Perhaps so but the last one ran for years with no problem. I suppose the next option is get a wifi card for my pc and go that route (pun intended) To confuse things even more, my BB provider has got back to me to say there was a fault at the exchange that has been put right now. Only time will tell but so far so good although I am not sure the links would be the only things affected by a fault. But what do I know about the mysteries of t'internet

Oh dear, after a long period of connection it has again dropped out. I give up.

[Drew Stephenson]

I use D-Link extenders in my studio and they're generally pretty reliable. Maybe once every 4 months something will throw a fit but being as this is normally solved by rebooting the router I don't think I can blame the extenders.
I'm currently using both of them so can't give you a model number right now, but will do so later on.

[CS70]

They can go back to Amazon and I will get a different brand

The only brand from which I get network gear, since several years now, is ASUS.

D-Link, TP-link, Netgear - they may be doing some good products but I haven't found any.

ASUS costs a little more, but the engineering, power, reliability and support (in terms of updates) is worth every penny.

The TP Link dongle is an oddity as I got it free and half-works. But the moment it doesn't...

[James Perrett]

Perhaps so but the last one ran for years with no problem. I suppose the next option is get a wifi card for my pc and go that route (pun intended)

If you've had some that worked successfully in the past then it looks like these particular TP-Link ones are no good. Personally I'd stick to cabled ethernet rather than Wifi as Wifi can increase the lowest latency settings that you can use without clicks and pops. If you want to play virtual instruments on your computer in real time this could be a problem.

[Marbury]

Shucks, it's back to dropping out after a few hours of smooth running. Losing the will to live.

[merlyn]

If your router plugs into the phone line it's using DSL, so there is a DSL modem in the router.

The frequency used to transmit ethernet over the mains may be interfering with DSL.

If you have a phone with a long, coiled up cable that might be the problem.

[wireman]

Ok, I think I have managed to pinpoint the problem. It's the new Tp links. I just plugged the other machine into the router direct downstairs and it worked a treat, eliminating my router as the problem. I took the same machine upstairs and into the TP link and it dropped the same as on the other machine.
.

So why did the W7 machine seem to have the same issues when directly connected?

Also, it can be useful to keep a long (15m) Ethernet cable to help with troubleshooting in cases like this.

[Drongoloid]

You are not the only one. My connection drops out frequently but irregularly - hopeless for WFH. I have been onto TP LInks many times for many hours and got nowhere. Unimpressed. Will not use TP LInks again. Any recommendations for alternatives?

[Drew Stephenson]

My D-Links are fairly reliable (see above). Model number is DHP-P306AV

[OneWorld]

Perhaps so but the last one ran for years with no problem. I suppose the next option is get a wifi card for my pc and go that route (pun intended)

If you've had some that worked successfully in the past then it looks like these particular TP-Link ones are no good. Personally I'd stick to cabled ethernet rather than Wifi as Wifi can increase the lowest latency settings that you can use without clicks and pops. If you want to play virtual instruments on your computer in real time this could be a problem.

I’d agree. My WiFi can work withou5 problems at all then every now and then it becomes flakey, there doesn’t seem to any consistency to try and track the problem down, is it my bb supplied router, is it Win10 update? I gave up faffing with it and plugged the Ethernet cable back in and that ‘just works’

[CS70]

Perhaps so but the last one ran for years with no problem. I suppose the next option is get a wifi card for my pc and go that route (pun intended)

If you've had some that worked successfully in the past then it looks like these particular TP-Link ones are no good. Personally I'd stick to cabled ethernet rather than Wifi as Wifi can increase the lowest latency settings that you can use without clicks and pops. If you want to play virtual instruments on your computer in real time this could be a problem.

I’d agree. My WiFi can work withou5 problems at all then every now and then it becomes flakey, there doesn’t seem to any consistency to try and track the problem down, is it my bb supplied router, is it Win10 update? I gave up faffing with it and plugged the Ethernet cable back in and that ‘just works’

It really depends on the equipment, the software and the location. Channel congestion is an issue typically in tightly packed urban areas (and the gear may help or hinder depending on the radio strength, the scanning/detection algorithms and the general logic written in the router and receiver software). Especially 5G is sensitive interference at large distance - a microwave oven not perfectly shielded between the router and the receiver (and most microwaves oven aren't) can cause a total packet loss if the angle is just right. And of course if there's a radar within 10Km you the router may be forced to release the channel anytime, ending up wither in a random congested channel or - if you haven't enabled auto-hopping - without any wireless capability for 35 minutes minimum...

On the other side, if you monitor and control your wifi environment, position router and receiver just so and you don't have more than 3 or 4 wifi signals at full strength, there's zero problem. I haven't run an ethernet in the various places I've lived for the last 10-12 years and with no problems at all.

But much as any other complex technology, a casual user is at a disadvantage in odd situations... and I can well understand that most people cannot care less of becoming a network specialist. Ethernet is indeed a great solution if you can run a cable..

[Eastonone]

I came across this YouTube video

https://youtu.be/Al3kwmfzsOQ

and wonder if this is your problem and whether the suggested fix will work for you? The thesis seems to be that TPLink powerline ethernet adaptors have a problem whereby the remote extender loses connection with the base unit at router end and has no means of re-establishing it. So the only fix is to reinitiate the connection by unplugging. All this guy is doing is using an icmp packet every second sent up the link to keep the connection alive and prevent this happening.

I have had some success with one of these

https://www.netgear.co.uk/home/products ... X6250.aspx

Provided your BB router does 802.11ac. Just depends on how many and how solid the walls are between the two WiFi devices.

[Marbury]

TP LInk are phoning me today (arranged by Amazon's chat as the plugs are past their return date) but reading above, I don't hold out much hope. It seems when ever I get a technical problem, it's never textbook. It always seems to the on the margins of mystery. It ran yesterday for a couple of hours fine until it started to drop out again. There is no logical pattern as to why it is doing it. If I leave it, it does eventually re-connect by itself but the time scale varies for that as well. Nothing has changed in my house electrics, appliances etc so it all points to the router or the Links. My money is on the links.

When I plugged the other Win 7 machine direct in the router, I think I must have mistaken not being able to connect to IE for a drop out, when I think it was software as I tested it again yesterday with no drop outs. Took it upstairs and into the links and it dropped out.

I remember the last TP Link set I had this happened to from time to time, but this new set has been fine until now.

[The Elf]

I wouldn't touch any of these things that use the mains for transmission. I would (and have) get someone in to run Ethernet cables and access points to where you need them, connected directly to your router.

[Marbury]

Sending them back, had enough time wasted on them via emails, phone calls etc. I'm 54 and time is precious.

So if anyone can suggest my best option as again, I can't plug direct into the router as my office is upstairs,