This guy is amazing, his studio, perfect, even though I’m not making this type of music, I love the way he’s got things set-up, I can identify with that.
Arp mate. If you want to add some retro 'clang' to your mixes you don't need that dedicated tank driver.
You can use a small mixer to drive the input coil from the headphone output (many cheap amps use the feeble TL072) Then return the signal to a line or mic channel. Or you could use a small hi fi amplifier. Lots of ways to skin this cat, I am sure you will work it out!
For some numbers? "Fender" style reverb channels used the ECC82 valve (some the 81) and that probably puts about half a watt into the drive coil but you can get away with a lot less, just need more 'makeup' gain.
The rare and very expensive Fender stand alone reverb unit used a 6V6 so hitting the tank with about four watts! I do however hear from a good friend amp tech that reverb tanks are not as tough as they were so go easy!
ef37a wrote:Arp mate. If you want to add some retro 'clang' to your mixes you don't need that dedicated tank driver.
You can use a small mixer to drive the input coil from the headphone output (many cheap amps use the feeble TL072) Then return the signal to a line or mic channel. Or you could use a small hi fi amplifier. Lots of ways to skin this cat, I am sure you will work it out!
For some numbers? "Fender" style reverb channels used the ECC82 valve (some the 81) and that probably puts about half a watt into the drive coil but you can get away with a lot less, just need more 'makeup' gain.
The rare and very expensive Fender stand alone reverb unit used a 6V6 so hitting the tank with about four watts! I do however hear from a good friend amp tech that reverb tanks are not as tough as they were so go easy!
Dave.
Thanks Dave, I’m just wondering though, how much of the sound is attributed to the unit, rather than the spring? It does sound extraordinarily good, very spacey.
ef37a wrote:Arp mate. If you want to add some retro 'clang' to your mixes you don't need that dedicated tank driver.
You can use a small mixer to drive the input coil from the headphone output (many cheap amps use the feeble TL072) Then return the signal to a line or mic channel. Or you could use a small hi fi amplifier. Lots of ways to skin this cat, I am sure you will work it out!
For some numbers? "Fender" style reverb channels used the ECC82 valve (some the 81) and that probably puts about half a watt into the drive coil but you can get away with a lot less, just need more 'makeup' gain.
The rare and very expensive Fender stand alone reverb unit used a 6V6 so hitting the tank with about four watts! I do however hear from a good friend amp tech that reverb tanks are not as tough as they were so go easy!
Dave.
Thanks Dave, I’m just wondering though, how much of the sound is attributed to the unit, rather than the spring? It does sound extraordinarily good, very spacey.
Oh COME on! Spring reverbs are g'awful things from a sound quality point of view. Full of resonances and colourations. I doubt the transducers are very linear. I put one in a 100W valve amp for a famous guitarist*, company favour (never got a drink either!) and had to work up a notch filter to pull out a nasty honk. In other words, it is ALL about the spring!
You do not want to hit them with much below about 150Hz and a sweepable mid filter would be very useful.
*Hank Marvin told me years ago "never name drop"
Dave.
Last edited by Hugh Robjohns on Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Power supply and spring tank not included... And its the spring tank that really defines the sound, naturally!
Loving the video, though. Everything sounds better with a shedload of delays and reverbs piled on top. Reminds me of all those 'legalise cannabis' gigs I mixed when at college... I can still smell them now...
Last edited by Hugh Robjohns on Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Arpangel wrote:
Of course as usual, and in-keeping with anything I want these days it’s OUT OF STOCK
Yes, ive been wondering about that. When window shopping online recently i have noticed that there seems to be a lot of items with long lead times "delivery in MAY" etc. As if the factory gates are open but production is on a goslow.
Saw this in a mail shot recently. Haven't tried it or heard it, but it does look interesting. And yes, it is fashionably available for pre-order. What we call 'out of stock'.
zenguitar wrote:Saw this in a mail shot recently. Haven't tried it or heard it, but it does look interesting. And yes, it is fashionably available for pre-order. What we call 'out of stock'.
ef37a wrote:
Oh COME on! Spring reverbs are g'awful things from a sound quality point of view. Full of resonances and colourations. I doubt the transducers are very linear. I put one in a 100W valve amp for a famous guitarist*, company favour (never got a drink either!) and had to work up a notch filter to pull out a nasty honk. In other words, it is ALL about the spring!
You do not want to hit them with much below about 150Hz and a sweepable mid filter would be very useful.
*Hank Marvin told me years ago "never name drop"
Dave.
That’s their charm, the colourations, if you mix them in with a high quality digital reverb you get some lovely effects.
Mixing on a board like that with it all in front of you, no substitute.
ef37a wrote:
Oh COME on! Spring reverbs are g'awful things from a sound quality point of view. Full of resonances and colourations. I doubt the transducers are very linear. I put one in a 100W valve amp for a famous guitarist*, company favour (never got a drink either!) and had to work up a notch filter to pull out a nasty honk. In other words, it is ALL about the spring!
You do not want to hit them with much below about 150Hz and a sweepable mid filter would be very useful.
*Hank Marvin told me years ago "never name drop"
Dave.
That’s their charm, the colourations, if you mix them in with a high quality digital reverb you get some lovely effects.
Mixing on a board like that with it all in front of you, no substitute.
Yer not wiv me Tone. I am saying the spring effects make any electronics contribution virtually inaudible, apart from FR.
IMO for dub, I would be tempted to avoid guitar-pedal spring reverb type and would look for the vintagey dedicated units, you know the one you can kick on them and goes tccHAAAaahaaaAA
Some years ago, I found a Space Echo re-201 at a very decent price. The spring reverb in it is very usable. Now, unfortunately, they are going at ridiculous high price, and this without saying the amount of love you need to put into them to get them nicely rolling.
I also bought a Roland RV-100, low price. A little less agressive, but still very nice.
Check the used market, sometimes, you may see reverb units at very decent price.
Frank Rideau wrote:IMO for dub, I would be tempted to avoid guitar-pedal spring reverb type and would look for the vintagey dedicated units, you know the one you can kick on them and goes tccHAAAaahaaaAA
Some years ago, I found a Space Echo re-201 at a very decent price. The spring reverb in it is very usable. Now, unfortunately, they are going at ridiculous high price, and this without saying the amount of love you need to put into them to get them nicely rolling.
I also bought a Roland RV-100, low price. A little less agressive, but still very nice.
Check the used market, sometimes, you may see reverb units at very decent price.
I recorded in a local Ska studio in the 70’s, we had a Grampian spring, all right, but not worth £6,000 which is what I saw one up for recently.
I had a very nice Vesta Fire dual stereo spring reverb, that was really nice, very very smooth sound.
Frank Rideau wrote:IMO for dub, I would be tempted to avoid guitar-pedal spring reverb type and would look for the vintagey dedicated units, you know the one you can kick on them and goes tccHAAAaahaaaAA
Some years ago, I found a Space Echo re-201 at a very decent price. The spring reverb in it is very usable. Now, unfortunately, they are going at ridiculous high price, and this without saying the amount of love you need to put into them to get them nicely rolling.
I also bought a Roland RV-100, low price. A little less agressive, but still very nice.
Check the used market, sometimes, you may see reverb units at very decent price.
I recorded in a local Ska studio in the 70’s, we had a Grampian spring, all right, but not worth £6,000 which is what I saw one up for recently.
I had a very nice Vesta Fire dual stereo spring reverb, that was really nice, very very smooth sound.
Cool ! Indeed the Grampian high value as probably more to do with the name of a certain Jamaican sound engineer associated with it. Also pretty sure once you've paid that price, it does not come free of potential troubles...
There is a growing business of people refurbishing old piece of gear and selling them on a flip. Some of them are actually doing a pretty good and honest job, for example these guys: https://soundgas.com/
They also have a blog article on spring reverbs for those who are interested to hear what they have to say about the Grampian and other stuffs, https://soundgas.com/blog/which-vintage-spring-reverb-is-best/
Last edited by Frank Rideau on Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Certainly was. I used the smaller BX15 spring reverb for a good few years, which was engineered in a very cunning way. The service manual is here and includes a diagram of how the springs are arranged. Fabulous technology that worked and sounded far better than traditional Fender/Hammond type spring tanks.
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Certainly was. I used the smaller BX15 spring reverb for a good few years
I could only afford a very small spring reverb and it constantly boinged at the least provocation. I seem to remember buying it from an early incarnation of Turnkey, before they had a shop in charing Cross Road, I think it was in Hendon. The Great British Spring was much larger and better but still had that metallic sound.
Thank you for the service manual Hugh, I love the pictures of all those springs.
Last edited by MOF on Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Frank Rideau wrote:
Cool ! Indeed the Grampian high value as probably more to do with the name of a certain Jamaican sound engineer associated with it. Also pretty sure once you've paid that price, it does not come free of potential troubles...
There is a growing business of people refurbishing old piece of gear and selling them on a flip. Some of them are actually doing a pretty good and honest job, for example these guys: https://soundgas.com/
They also have a blog article on spring reverbs for those who are interested to hear what they have to say about the Grampian and other stuffs, https://soundgas.com/blog/which-vintage-spring-reverb-is-best/
I knew a guy that used a BX20 as a stand for his DX7, he offered it to me for nothing and I said it took up too much room, no thanks, that was about 1988.
Fair enough if you can make a living out of this old stuff, but I do think that some of the prices asked, especially by the people you mention are a bit OTT.
Last edited by Arpangel on Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
ken long wrote:Love my Great British Spring for all these reasons. As Frank mentions, Soundgas do a very nice grampian but £££.
What I find quite ironic, is that a lot of this old stuff was bought by people with little money at the time, we had a Grampian because no one else wanted it, the British Spring, that was a budget reverb, the Grampian was the only commercial unit we had, the rest of our effects, and mixer, were home-made.
Then you had all those Jamaican guys doing it all on a wing and a prayer, mostly home made stuff, they’d pick up on something and it would go into legendary status, now it’s worth a fortune, but it was just what was around at the time.
Last edited by Arpangel on Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:11 am, edited 5 times in total.
