Direct, Simple Question re: Guitar Amp Simulating Software

[Gutter Pup]

I know you guys must be tired of the same old "what's the best amp simulating software" questions. However, I don't care about "the best" - all I want to do is find something, anything, with at least a couple of decent, not overly-compressed or cheesy, plausibly acceptable, overdriven and hard rock (not metal) tones. Don't need, or expect it to sound like a real amp or speaker cabinet, and don't care about effects. Just wanna to have a few tones that don't make me want me to say "f-it", put the guitar down, shut off the computer, grab a bag of spicy Nachos and a diet coke, and go watch Addams Family, Munsters, and Green Acres re-runs on TV 'til my brain goes numb . . . guess I'm dating myself here

Any thoughts/suggestions ? Thank you !

[muzines]

What ones have you tried that in your opinion were “cheesy”-sounding?

[ore_terra]

not sure if it matches all your requirements, but BIAS amp definitively has good tones

[clube]

I am probably the same age and love the sound of a rock guitar from back in the day.
Over the years of amp sim technology I have had about 6 to 7 systems and even now, after all the development, none holds my interest beyond an initial burst of enthusiasm. I use them only for sketching ideas out on the DAW before rerecording using a mic and amp.
So, I think you have to take them for what they are - inherently different - and just either work with that difference or stick with the sound of the real thing that you and I grew up with.

[Music Wolf]

For me the issue with software has always been latency. I’m very happy to use modellers / profiling rather than a ‘real’ amp. I gig with a helix, main ‘amp’ in the studio is a Kemper and I’ve been using modellers since the first Sansamp was launched, I think that the current crop of VSTs are fine when applied to an already DI’d track. It’s just the latency whilst tracking that puts me off. That said, because I always direct monitor and use hardware modellers I don’t even bother trying to achieve low latency in my DAW. If you are achieving sufficiently low latency in your system then why not download the 15 day free trial version of Helix Native to see whether modellers are the route for you?

[CS70]

Hardware, find a used eleven rack with the latest firmware in working order. It’s unbeatable in terms of what it does and price (now), and if you can’t get proper sounds out of it,, it’s not the unit. It makes recording in a DAW a breeze with the same feel as an amp.

Though you need to use the analogue or spdif out and not as an interface (AVID drivers suck)

Software, there’s plenty of free stuff that you can download?

[The Elf]

For me it would be Helix Native. I haven't found anything it can't do to my satisfation, and that of the guitarists I work with.

[uselessoldman]

Real amps all sound different either be it different models manufacturers or type. If you have not found tones you like then I guess its down to what you have tried or the setup you are using. There are plenty of good vsts out there, in fact I would say most of the modern ones are good. The best? They all have their strong points,

Overloud u-he slate, Ignite Amps (quite a few plugins), Helix Native, Softube Kuassa, Positive Grind Bias Amp/FX . NI Guitar Rig, IKM Amplitube,

Seriously you cannot tell me there rubbish FAR FROM IT, they are DAMNED GOOD.

You will not get any of them to sound good through a bad amp and poor speakers but what you do get is a great choice versatility and variation. What is a good setup? No idea, I am using power amps into Marshall cabs with a selection of speakers, although even the IR algorithms are available to emulate speakers and THEY ARE are all extremely ACCURATE.

I also have some of the real amps and I have to say I am seriously impressed with IR/Sims, take a dry DI input into a DAW add vst and I would challenge you to tell what is real what is the plug in !! IF a Helix or Kemper is good enough for some of the top bands they MUST be good enough for EVERYONE

[Fishnish]

Helix Native.
I have a Helix hardware unit too, and usually use the hardware (wet) for playing/direct monitoring, record the dry DI and then put it through the Helix Native software using the same patch as a starting point, for easy tweaking.

[Sam Spoons]

If the Helix Floorboard doesn't float your boat then the Headrush might, I have a Headrush Gigboard, basically the current version of the Eleven Rack. I don't know how much Eleven Racks go for them the Gigboard was £450.

That said if I want to just play guitar I have an 18 watt combo and plug into that, maybe through the Gigboard, maybe through some pedals but if you haven't found a modelling rig that works for you then is it time you bought a decent small amp and just got on with playing?

[Drew Stephenson]

Before rushing out to buy a new toy* I've found it's worth taking one of your existing plug-ins but ignoring the presets. A surprisingly high number of manufacturers of both hardware and software seem to think that the best way to demonstrate their product is to set a bunch of presets up with everything ramped up to 11.
So I'd suggest loading an emulator at random (there was a free voxengo one being mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I downloaded and have already used: https://www.voxengo.com/product/boogex/) and either start with everything turned to zero and build a sound from scratch (exactly as you would if you bought a new amp and all the knobs were on zero) or find a preset you half-like and dial everything down 50%.
You might find that the over-compressed, over-hyped cheesiness disappears and a very useful tone appears.

* unless you're really just looking for an excuse to buy a new toy, in which case, see all of the above!

[muzines]

This is what I need to do, and have been thinking about for a while.

I don't find it inspiring getting an all-singing guitar amp/FX emulation thing and having 17 million presets to wade through - when it comes to guitar, it's more about the playing, and I just want sounds that I like so I can get to the playing.

I remember back in the day, my guitarist got a Boss pedalboard thing that came with a million presets, and they weren't that great. We took an afternoon with him playing and me fiddling and built a bunch of custom presets, maybe 15-20 or so, that we liked and that worked for our sound, and they became a kind of goto signature set of sounds. Straight away that box was 100% more useful, and I need to sort of replicate that process really for me.

I also find it a bit tedious trying to operate the software with a guitar in front of me, and of course as you get close to the screen, you get more pickup noise, and the whole thing just gets annoying, which is why I keep putting it off.

What I'm basically doing is to recording a bunch of representative examples of my (dry) playing, so I can put the guitar down and use those example recordings to go through a build a bunch of my sounds that I can then draw from (and modify if necessary) going forward, and just save as Logic presets so I can call up the sounds I want, regardless of which plugin, or combination of plugins it comes from, without faffing around.

One more item on the to-do list that I'll get to at some point...

[CS70]

If the Helix Floorboard doesn't float your boat then the Headrush might, I have a Headrush Gigboard, basically the current version of the Eleven Rack. I don't know how much Eleven Racks go for them the Gigboard was £450.

Yeah that's the thing, you can find 11R for half that and even less if you're lucky, at least here. The rush to AxeFXs and Kempers and whatever new toy has left them as "old" and "outdated" but as you say the Gigboard is the same tech (and not sure if it's got the physical resistive matrix at the input to change the input impedance). Gotta be the best tone/money deal on the planet at the moment.

Nobody can tell what's what by listening, nor if you play with the physical amp in another room. It's only that "as good as it can get" doesn't help selling new units...

[al_diablo]

Very interested to know if OP has previously tried anything particular and found them lacking.

Also does the emu definitely have to be software or are hardware units as suggested ok?

[manwilde]

.
So I'd suggest loading an emulator at random (there was a free voxengo one being mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I downloaded and have already used: https://www.voxengo.com/product/boogex/)

Thanks for the link, I´ve already checked out a few presets and found them quite suitable for quick demo tracking.

[Guest]

Kuassa Amplifikation Lite. It's a bit old now, but is very simple and to my guitarist ears sounds very good. It is very flexible, using three distinct voices for Clean (a bit vanilla, but not tinny in the least) Rhythm (Deffo Marshall, Open yet crunchy. My fave - sounds very wide screen when dialled in right) Lead (Heavy grind or sustaining lead, your choice). Lite can also use external cab models, which ups the realism. There are no bells and whistle or options beyond the Bass-Mid-Treble-Presence eq. It's very simple and very familiar. Lite does not sound as 'produced' as Guitar Rig or Amplitube, but sits well in a track.

If you hanker for quality and simplicity, check out Kuassa's one amp plugins - The Fender one (Matchlock) The Marshall one (Caliburn). No endless options, no clutter. Maximum rock n roll.

Studio Devil Guitar Amp offers more variety, but again isn't overcooked. They also offer a free amp sim - British Valve Custom.

[CS70]

I don't find it inspiring getting an all-singing guitar amp/FX emulation thing and having 17 million presets to wade through

Can't agree more!

The challenge is that as a guitarist the sound usually drives what you play, which is the limit of dry signals and DI-ing.

My solution is to simply never look at presets. I treat these units as I would do any amp - have a sound in mind, start will all at "neutral", turn up each knob, starting with preamp and power gain, and see if it gets me closer to that sound or the opposite.

Approached like that, the annoyance is only in learning the damned menu systems (which is why I still love the 11r, it's got all clearly written down so there's nothing to learn).

The advantage of course is that, unlike a "real" amp, once you have a sound you just save it!

[doompalm]

On a tip from someone in this group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/491504691714592 I found that Shattered Glass Audio's ACE - http://www.shatteredglassaudio.com/product/103 in combination with various cabinets sims from Two Notes Torpedo Wall Of Sound - https://www.two-notes.com/wall-of-sound (I've been using the Projector Filmosound IR) gets me close in feel to a real amp. I've been using various pedals direct into the interface for the actual OD/distortion. Total cost $10 USD. I also like using Brainworks' Ampeg SVT-VR bass amp sim as a guitar amp.

[Gutter Pup]

Hi. I'm going to check out some of your kind suggestions. Btw: I should have been more clear, so my question was neither direct nor simple.

Note: I've been considering amp sim software only because I sometimes want/need to play/record/collaborate over the internet when I am away from my studio & amps.

Again, I don't expect perfection, but it would be helpful to find a decent simulation of an electric guitar plugged straight/direct into a mic'd Fender, Marshall, Vox, HiWatt, Supro, ect., tube amp. Part of this, of course, necessarily involves the elusive reproduction of the percussive effect and sound of the amp speaker(s) really moving because they are being driven/pushed by the amp's volume. Rather than try to describe what I mean, here are a few of many examples (btw: If you aren't yet familiar with these guitarists and/or the equipment they used, you might wanna check 'em out someday ! ) :

- Gibson SG (with humbucking pickups) into cranked (max volume) Marshall amps
e.g. Eric Clapton w/Cream - 1968 - "Crossroads" from the "Wheels of Fire" album
- Fender Stratocaster (single coil pickups) > treble booster pedal > cranked Vox AC 30.
e.g. Rory Gallagher - "Messin' with the Kid", from his 1972 "Live in Europe" album.
- Fender Stratocaster (single coil pickups) + Gibson Les Paul (humbucking pickups),
into vintage Fender tweed Champ amps:
e.g. Clapton & Duane Allman - 1968 - "Why Does Love Got to Be So Sad", off
the "Layla" Derek & the Dominoes album.
- Carlos Santana - "Samba Pa Ti" from the 1970 Santana band's "Abraxis" album
- Guitar/Amp used = debated: possibly a Gibson Les Paul Custom (humbucking
pickups) or Les Paul Jr (P90 single coil pickup) through wah-wah pedal (in fixed
position) into Fender Twin amps and/or Randall Smith modified Fender
Princeton amp.
- Gibson ES 335 (semi-hollow body, with humbucking pickups) into vintage Fender
Deluxe tweed amp
e.g. Larry Carlton (as session guitarist) on "Kid Charlemagne" from Steely Dan's 1976
"Royal Scam" album -
- Anyway, sorry for the above incessant dribble . . . it's late . . . : >

[al_diablo]

Just wondering if the Strymon Iridium might be a good choice to look at: they apparently tried quite hard to get the feeling of an amp, into a cab, in a room, and I think the options are slightly more limited than some amp sims - 3 amps each with 3 cab/speaker combos.

It's hardware, not software, but does seem like it might be useful to check out.

I haven't used an amp sim for a while but I do own guitar rig, and found it worked best trying to use it like I would use a real amp - from scratch with no presets

[Frank Rideau]

What about impulse responses (I'm asking really) ?

[rockydennis]

How about a Tech 21 SansAmp GT2? It's an analog pedal, not digital. Cheaper than a lot of plugins, though it's just amps and no effects. Plus, unlike plugins, you can find it used at a discount.
http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/gt2/

[uselessoldman]

oh but Frank that is what most modern amps/cab sims are based around, hence no difference to any good sampled Kontakt library. Celestion themselves have their own speaker IR samples (algorithm) available on their website should you need or want to try them out.

From my own experience you cannot emulate the feel and tone of a Vintage30 without actually using one, nor G12T G12H or any other specific speaker for that matter. Some will argue the same about amp emulation, BUT I would argue different, I do believe some of the amps sims out there through say a Vintage30 can sound pretty decent and extremely close to the original if you are using a good quality power amp. That is why I bought and own various pairs of speakers, I found you needed them but you did not necessarily need all the amps sims are good enough

[resistorman]

Hardware, find a used eleven rack with the latest firmware in working order. It’s unbeatable in terms of what it does and price (now), and if you can’t get proper sounds out of it,, it’s not the unit. It makes recording in a DAW a breeze with the same feel as an amp.

Though you need to use the analogue or spdif out and not as an interface (AVID drivers suck)

Software, there’s plenty of free stuff that you can download?

You’ve piqued my interest in the 11, especially since I see they’re around $200 here in the US. I have NI Komplete with Guitar Rig, but I always have to deal with latency. Wondering how it stacks up (ahem) sound wise against that. I wouldn’t use the usb btw.

[resistorman]

Well, I ordered one for a little over $200. I figure I’ll be able to sell it easily if I don’t like it.