Behringer X32 need more outputs?

[Hello2084]

Hi, I am new here so hello!

I am building a system. I currently have an X32. However I need more than 16XLRs.
I was thinking of getting a X32 rack, and I could link them ( I also have a nice 19" cabinet ). Any better ideas?

Could I use a 6.3mm TRS balanced to XLR connector wire to gain an extra 6 outputs via the AUX outs?

Any other ideas? Any help appreciated.

Thanks

Sid

[Drew Stephenson]

How many outputs do you need?
What options does the AES/EBU out give you?

[The Elf]

There may be other ways of doing this, depending on what you're trying to achieve.

What are these outputs going to be used for?

[Hello2084]

22. I had been thinking of using that AES connection to my Behringer 2496. That has 6 XLR outs, and I am not using it ATM. Could it do it?

But I like the control from the X32, the ability to run a great deal of it from an ipad, or PC remotely. The X32 rack is also good value for money, unless there is a better way?

Or any other methods?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Could I use a 6.3mm TRS balanced to XLR connector wire to gain an extra 6 outputs via the AUX outs?

Yes, assuming the routing arrangements work for your application.

[Hello2084]

Oh that would be great news. I was getting worried when someone on another forum said my X32 had 16 outputs total and using the 6 aux outs would lose me 6 XLR outputs.

Well I suppose if I could do it that way, and use the AUX outs that would be great. I might have to use the 2 RCA outputs on the X32. But using my DX2496 ultradrive pro for 1-2 of the outputs, if needed is no big deal TBH.

So to confirm, one way or another, my X32 gives me 22 outputs simultaneously, that can be XLR? (With my normal output control, slightly reduced on the AUXs, but the main ones: EQ, compression etc still there?)

And, if really needed, the AES/EBU can let me use the DX2496?

If so, that is awesome. Thanks everyone, and Behringer too!

[The Elf]

There may be other ways of doing this, depending on what you're trying to achieve.

What are these outputs going to be used for?

(If these outputs are for artist monitoring, for instance, there's potentially a better way using P16Ms...)

[AlecSp]

So to confirm, one way or another, my X32 gives me 22 outputs simultaneously, that can be XLR? (With my normal output control, slightly reduced on the AUXs, but the main ones: EQ, compression etc still there?)

If you use 6.35mm to XLR converters for the six aux outs, then yes.

However, depending on what you want to feed them, you might find that the internal routing is your limiting factor.

You asked the simple question as to whether you can have more than 16 outputs. But failed to explain what you wanted to do with them.

[Hello2084]

Hi,

They would be running to sound outputs.

Everything from DZR315s (simply) to custom cabinets (L 2x D4400TI-ND, R 2x D4400TI-ND), which need the X32 to give me hi/low cut, limits, EQ etc).

It is quite a complex system due to various different components, which all need these settings because their different frequency ranges, power etc.

[uselessoldman]

I have both SD16 and the SD8 they have 8 XLR outputs each. There is also I guess the ADAT option and the Behringer ATA8200 would give you an extra 8 XLR outputs per unit installed.

[Sam Spoons]

Oh that would be great news. I was getting worried when someone on another forum said my X32 had 16 outputs total and using the 6 aux outs would lose me 6 XLR outputs.

No the aux's are available in addition to the XLR outputs but you only have 16 buses (plus L/R, not sure OTTOMH whether you can use L/R as an extra two fully independent buses)

Well I suppose if I could do it that way, and use the AUX outs that would be great. I might have to use the 2 RCA outputs on the X32. But using my DX2496 ultradrive pro for 1-2 of the outputs, if needed is no big deal TBH.

The RCA sockets duplicate the TRS sockets on Aux 5 and 6, not sure where the DRX comes in?

So to confirm, one way or another, my X32 gives me 22 outputs simultaneously, that can be XLR? (With my normal output control, slightly reduced on the AUXs, but the main ones: EQ, compression etc still there?)

The outputs don't have eq/compression etc as such, they are simply analogue outputs fed from the D/A convertors. You need to use buses to supply the processing.

And, if really needed, the AES/EBU can let me use the DX2496?

The AES/EBU output mirrors the main outs

If so, that is awesome. Thanks everyone, and Behringer too!

Your's is an unusual use case and the best way to see if it works is to try it. I'm still unclear about what your requirement is, 22 different speaker channels which all need different eq and compression? More detail please.

[Funkyflash5]

Depending on your signal mixing need, you may want to use your matrices to feed the auxes

[AlecSp]

Depending on your signal mixing need, you may want to use your matrices to feed the auxes

You may need to use your matrices. You still haven't really explained exactly what you're trying to do - but it sounds like you have the design in your head.

We have at least ascertained that you can easily get 22 XLR outs from the X32. Now go off and see if you can achieve your goal using mixbuses and matrices.

[Sam Spoons]

AFAIK the matrixes can only receive signals from buses of which you only have 16 in the X32. I plan to go and have a fiddle this evening as learning more about my X32 is always worthwhile, whether I'll learn anything to assist the OP I don't know though (if I do I'll post back later)...

[Hello2084]

Hi,

It sounds like I will need the DCX2496 in order to take the main L/R input and do the crossovers/cuts/EQ etc.

I have most of the system purchased. It takes in a central L/R source. Then it will go out to many separate items. For a LCR setup. It is not recording or anything, just a system for listening.

This is a c/p of part of it:

1. TL / BL DZR315: Via daisy chain
2. TR / BR DZR315: Via daisy chain
3. CC TS315 + CC TS315 then via daisy chain
4. 2 x BT68 via E - 1500 tamp 1 L 4Ohm 1430w Ch1
5. 2 x BT68 via E - 1500 tamp 1 R 4Ohm 1430w. Ch2
7. BS SRX828P: Input x 2 on SW1 (B) = RED                                                                   8. TS SRX828P: Input x 2 on SW2 (T) = ORANGE
9. 2 x BT58 via 4-700 tamp 1 810w  4Ohm Ch1
10. 2 x  BT78 via 4-700 tamp 1 CC 4 Ohm 810w  Ch2
11. 2 x 2 via splitter D4400TI-ND via 4-700 tamp 1 Ch3 , 810w 4Ohm
12. 2 x 2 via splitter DS18PRO-DRN2 via 4-700 tamp 1 Ch4, 4Ohm 810w  
13. 2 x 6MR500-NDY, via 4-700 tamp 2, 4Ohm 810w Ch3
14. 2 x 5MR450-NDY, via 4-700 tamp 2, 4Ohm 810w Ch4
15. 1 x 12MR2000-NDY, 1 x 12MR2000-NDY 4Ohm 1800w
16. 1 x 12MR2000X, 1 x 12MR2000X 4Ohm 1800w

Get the idea?

I already have most of the items. The off the shelf parts are running, up to channel 8.
90% of other items purchased but not finished. This is not a complete list.

Unusual I know. But the 4 DZR315s (2L, 2R). Along with the JBL SRX828P x 2 is a lovely system. But , for example, the 4 BT68s (2L, 2R). Truly sound great, adding so much to the highs of the system. Adding the rest would all need the same level of control I already have.

[Sam Spoons]

So you only need 16 discrete outputs? If so then use buses 1-16 and apply the processing to each, you can ignore the main L/R and leave it unassigned, if you need overall volume control just use a single DCA.

[uselessoldman]

Bleeding heck I though I was mad using 4 amps, studio monitors and my headphones, oh well I feel a little better now. And that is in my front living room !!

No I do not use all the amps and channels all the time, I have pairs of Vintage 30s G12T-75s G12H-100s A pair of old Powercell 150s a pair of BN10s oh a pair of Marshall Vintage 30s and some creambacks 30s well u have to have creambacks if you play guitar not that I think there anything special there not.

My question is are you recording or using it for playback? Is this for music of video. Is this your home theatre or a studio/cinema?? For my live system, I can run 7 pairs of speakers and a couple of wedges (stage monitors) with tweeters and it sounds out of this world, BUT the X32 is only 48kHz, I still listen to films and HD Audio usually through my main Hi-Fi Atmos system, the X32 is a toy in comparison.

I like to mix and mess about in surround but I do not use the X32 as the mixer I use my Liquid 56 I only use the X32 as the DAW controller, I like to use the faders for channel volume control and automation.

That said if I do want to listen HD Audio through my live sound system as I call it, the amps are connected to my Liquid not the X32 and I just stream to the Liquid and jobs a good un.

Before someone asks I route X32 XLR outs via a multicore snake from the X32 into my ADAT which is connected to the Liquid so I can get a full 7.1 but I usually just route direct from the computer to my Focusrite Liquid due to the X32s 48kHz limitation.

[Dave Rowles]

Unusual I know.

Too right.

This sort of thing is usually dealt with by dedicated loudspeaker management systems, such as the DCX2496 or the DBX driverack and many others. I'd only consider coming straight off the desk if you NEED to send different signals to different outs at different times. To be honest, this sounds like a routing nightmare, and it'll only take one bad recall or save to wipe the whole thing and start again.

When mixing in a venue I only want to deal with L+R. I've not had the pleasure of surround sound mixing in a live situation as yet. Anything more than that as you'll need loads of pre-production to get it set correctly. (Read up on Bjork's recent cornucopia gigs for an example of a complex system)

How many discrete outputs do you ACTUALLY need? i.e, how many different mixes are needed? I mean you've given us what they are feeding, but break that down into where they are in the system?

So you've got Main L+R I assume, what are the others?

[Hello2084]

As a posted on page one.

A little clearer:

It runs from a Onkyo TX3030. This provides 2 separate Subwoofer outputs. Each +/- 12dB.

The Onkyo already has 11.2 channel, but with normal speakers for movies etc.

4 x YAMAHA DZR315 2 L, 2 R
2 x ALTO TS315 (C )
2 x JBL SRX828SP
2 boxes (2 x Pyle BT68 per box) 1 L, 1 R
2 x Pyle BT58 ( C )
2 x Pyle BT78 ( C )
4 x PRV D4400TI-ND (2 L, 2 R)
4 x DS18PRO-DRN2 (2 L, 2 R)
2 x PRV 5MR450-NDY ( C )
2 x PRV 6MR500-NDY (C )
2 x PRV 12MR2000X (C )
2 x PRV 12MR2000-NDY (C )

I could compromise. Daisy chain the DZR315s and SRX828SPs, use same discreet output to daisy chain BT58s and BT78s.

But would love to have the EQ/compression/active frequency for all components.

This is listening only. Yes it is crazy, as am I. Music 95%.

Hope that helps, please don't flame me, we all have our projects and ideal systems.

Thanks for all the help so far!

[Sam Spoons]

For a surround/atmos system (or any system TBH, including a live PA, my specific area of knowledge) having a single speaker per channel and, in the case of multiple channels, multiple identical speakers is the only way to achieve anything approaching 'high fidelity'. A mix of brands and models is not going to be as effective as using identical tops and matched subs.

I count you have 30 speakers, the max for the Onkyo is 13 channels (11.2) so whatever you do with the X32 you will only have 13 different signals to deal with. In PA work it is definitely a bad idea to have multiple speakers addressing the same area, if we ever used two or three tops a side (in a stereo rig) it would be purely to increase the area of coverage and we would minimise overlap.

The other point is that PA speakers are not 'HiFi' and, unless your listening space is huge, you would be much better served with a couple of subs and 11 decent studio monitor speakers.

[Dave Rowles]

A mix of brands and models is not going to be as effective as using identical tops and matched subs.

Yeah. I can understand that you want to have EQ control over each of the speakers now to match them up, but this still sounds to me like an exercise in madness.

I count you have 30 speakers, the max for the Onkyo is 13 channels (11.2) so whatever you do with the X32 you will only have 13 different signals to deal with.

This was what I was trying to get at with discrete channels. You've got loads of speakers but they are expecting to carry the same signal. As such you only need 13 outs. Match the speakers and EQ for the set if you've really got your heart set on doing this.

The other point is that PA speakers are not 'HiFi' and, unless your listening space is huge, you would be much better served with a couple of subs and 11 decent studio monitor speakers.

Agree totally. This sounds like you're trying to cobble things together with what you already have. This may achieve acceptable results, but you would be better served with a more matched system.

[Hello2084]

Cobble things together? With 4 x DZR315s and the 2 SRX828SPs? Are you joking??

The Onkyo uses its two XLR L/R and is used in stereo mode for this. If used for movies, it is in 11.2 with the DZR315s as L/R and normal A/V speakers.

If you look at the list it is primarily HF/ horn loaded stuff. I'm always aware of the limits of the HF side on normal mains. Take a look at line arrays and you see they have much more HF drivers than typical PR speaker's.

Having the BT68s in place allowed me to lower the high frequency gain and cut it down on the DZR315s. It sounds better.

Look at the spec for any PA speaker. Usually 2000w peak, LF 1000-1200w continuously, HF 20w , up to 1000w for 20ms. Check the Yamaha specs or any comparable speaker. It's a nice way to go through HF units.

As for PA speakers sounding rubbish, listen to some DZR315 speakers. Great, clear highs and lows. But turn them up and HF is overmatched.

Oh, when I say HF I mean the point where at 2-2.5kHz in is all on a unit rated at 20w RMS. Take some pressure off them. (As for HD audio, most people would hear no difference, including all those oldies who still have their 20kHz hearing sensitivity.

Look at the HF power specs, burst and continuous, of any PA speaker and tell me they honestly don't need and reinforcement (unless you get your parts for free)?

And yes I am a nut and like to go for different projects. If anyone is into cars, my Soarer/SC300 in US, has a 1JZ-GTE engine, but instead of the usual 2JZ shortblock, I used the shorter stroke 1JZ (71.5mm v 86mm) to port the head, do the valvetrain, 2mm oversize valves and a it revs to 9250rpm all day. More fun. I love loud music too lol.

[uselessoldman]

Ah my beloved Supra, loved the car till it turned 10 yrs old and then started to fall apart, actually it shook itself to pieces. I finally gave up and sadly had to let it go to a new home.

I also love my own Onkyo Atmos amp, although mine is not quite top of the range but still does what I want it to. But I do think Atmos is over rated the improvement/difference over standard 7.1 is marginal as almost no film really takes full advantage of it, Ready Player One is still the best example and that is only available in 7.1. However no Atmos amp is going to be good for music "Pure Audio" against a proper power amp and I would seriously question Onkyo output power RMS rating you have to seriously push them to get decent volumes.

As for being a little mad, your in good company, I still like to play my heavy metal through my Marshalls, but powered by QSC not my Onkyo which is a true 750 watts per channel

[Hello2084]

Thankyou for the reply as a fellow Nutter and car guy.

Just to clarify the XLR L/R from the Onkyo just provides the signal.

It is from this signal inputted to the X32 that then goes out to either the self powered speakers, or to separate amps for the other items. (As listed if you look them up the T.amp 4-700 and 1-500 are both quality amps, and the only model I use).

I am just going to finish the unbuilt bits and see how I manage things. Maybe the X32 will be sufficient, or perhaps in conjunction with the 2496. If not, getting and X16 rack would not be the end of the world.

I still standby the idea that additional HF drivers produce a worthwhile addition, and that speakers as fine as the DZR315s are insufficiently powered in terms of their HF equipment. (Note I am talking 2-2.5kHz - 14-15kHz - I am not someone who believes in super high frequencies). The DZR315 has an RMS wattage of 20w on the HF driver. The HF units I am using are generally 109Db+ sensitivity and 200+ Watts RMS.