Question about improving my headphone monitoring at home (Neumann NDH 20)

[Ben Asaro]

My current setup at home has a serious 5G RFI interference issue from neighboring cell transmitters (we are on the top floor and they are right above us).

Unfortunately, this gets picked up by powered monitors and makes monitoring and mixing impossible. I do not have this issue when using headphones, so I am thinking about getting a pair of reference grade headphones for monitoring and mixing.

I am considering a pair of Neumann NDH 20s, and am wondering if anyone had any experience with them. Due to COVID, there is no way to audition them in person.

I need closed back, prefer over-ear.

Any other suggestions would be helpful as well.

Thanks!

[James Perrett]

I found the Sonarworks headphone reviews quite useful when I was looking for a quality pair of headphones recently.

https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid-refe ... r-reviews/

I'm not a Sonarworks user so in my case I was looking for something that sounded good with no correction and settled on the Sennheiser HD600. However, I'm not sure what to suggest if you need closed back as most reference headphones are open backed.

[Ben Asaro]

Thanks, James!

[The Elf]

You say you want headphones for mixing, but you're specifying closed back? Open back are more suited to mix work.

For mixing duties I have Sennheiser HD650, AKG K702 and AKG712. My favourites by far are the AKGs.

[Ben Asaro]

Hi Elf, yes, they will have to be multipurpose and open back is not an option. My music corner is not dedicated, it’s a shared space.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Not your priority, I know, but decent monitors shouldn't suffer RFI. While I know some speakers are poor, often the problem is in the connecting wiring, and your situation is one where Neutriks emc connectors may well be justified.

[Ben Asaro]

Thanks, Hugh! I shall look into it!

[CS70]

Concur that it shouldn't really be interference in the monitors if there's none in headphone - as it's only last part of the signal path that is different, so troubleshooting should be possible.

That said: I've eyed the Neumanns before getting my LCD-X but, as you, I couldn't test them (unlike the Audeze, which were available in a local hi-fi shop).

Under the premise that any headphone needs to be learned to some extent (but so does any speaker+room combo), and basing myself on the SOS review by Sam, I would have risked buying them, and may at some point do so.

The reason is that at the side of my desk I've always the LCD-X but also one of my closed back tracking headphones (the AT M50x) and I find myself often wanting to tweak things a little while I'm tracking... so every mix gets effectively done on three monitoring systems - the Audio-Technica, the Audeze and of course the speakers! Over time, I've actually learnt the M50x well enough that moves I do while wearing them translate surprisingly well on other systems. The obvious advantage is that with closed back I can mix a little in the evenings and late at night at home, something that the pandemic has made absolutely critical.

My reasoning is that, if I can do that with the M50x, it should be even easier (with enough practice) to do it with the Neumanns.

So yeah, if I'd been looking for another pair of cans, I would definitely consider the Neumanns once again. Not sure if this helps you in the slightest, though!

[Ben Asaro]

LOL that’s actually quite helpful!

[Aled Hughes]

Not used them, but the Austrian Audio models look nice too.

[Ben Asaro]

Thanks, Aled!

[Ben Asaro]

After doing a considerable amount of research, I've decided on two things:

1) I'm probably going to want a decent headphone amplifier. I've been looking at the Rupert Neve RNHP, but am open to any suggestions in/around/under that price point.

2) I'm considering widening my search to include open back, but have a question in that regard, as I've never owned open-back headphones before. How "bad" (i.e., pronounced) is the leakage from them? (I know that depends in part on how loud I am monitoring; assume 'fairly loud') If I were listening to music on them, would someone sat 7-8 feet away be able to clearly hear what I am listening to? As my music corner is just that: a corner in a multi-purpose room in our small NYC apartment, I don't think significant leakage will be acceptable.

Thanks!!

[The Elf]

would someone sat 7-8 feet away be able to clearly hear what I am listening to?

Practically guaranteed, I'm afraid.

[Hugh Robjohns]

...open to any suggestions in/around/under that price point.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/grace-design-m900

2) ...as I've never owned open-back headphones before. How "bad" (i.e., pronounced) is the leakage from them?[/quote]

Quite obvious to anyone nearby.

would someone sat 7-8 feet away be able to clearly hear what I am listening to?

Probably not clearly, but it would certainly be annoying !

[Ben Asaro]

would someone sat 7-8 feet away be able to clearly hear what I am listening to?

Practically guaranteed, I'm afraid.

That's what I was afraid of. Hmmm, okay I'll have to give this some more thought.

Thanks, Elf!

[CS70]

Well my mixing corner is as well a corner (a little extension) on the side of my living room, with some panel curtains as separators.

I do use the Audeze (and other open backs before them) without too many problems, but I mix at quite low levels. Most of what comes out of the headphones is low-energy high frequency and it dissipates quickly, and the hanging curtains act as a rather effective barrier. Of course you would hear something if it's all silent but by definition when there's people in the room, silent it isn't.

YMMV of course, a bit depends on the people living with you and the level you want from headphones.

[Ben Asaro]

Quick update:

After a lot of specification and review-reading, I've settled on the Neumann NDH20s and a Rupert Neve RNHP headphone amplifier. They are slated to arrive this week from Sweetwater.

Thanks to everyone for your input!

[CS70]

Really looking forward to hear how they fare!

[Martin Walker]

Same here, especially on the Neve RNHP headphone amplifier.

Martin

[Ben Asaro]

Busy day here so I've only had time to unbox and connect the RNHP; the Neumanns are still in the box.

I did a series of A/B comparisons between the headphone output on my Scarlett 18i20 and the RNHP feeding from the monitor output of same, using my ATH M50x's.

The difference between the two is not subtle but it's not night and day, either. I'm guessing that the NDH20s will increase the gap a bit.

These observations are all 100% subjective!

The RNHP is really quite smooth and distortion-free; the way it handles dynamics reminds me very much of the Krell amp in my hi-fi.

Details that are completely obscured in low-resolution systems, such as the kick drum in It's Only Love by The Beatles, are noticeably clear; the kick so buried in the soundstage on this song, you really are listening for the feel of it more than anything else, it has virtually no attack. Ditto the phasing at the end of the first line in Help![/]: I felt like I could pick out each individual vocal line instead of it sounding like a mass of voices. Lennon's plosives, and the chewiness of the compression are all very noticeable with the RNHP.

The sound stage it presents is wide, and I really love the control it has over the lower frequencies. They are not hyped, but held in lockstep with everything else. The overall effect is a subtle tightening of the groove.

High frequencies are smooth and extended; if there's sibilence on the vocal line, it's here as well, but it seems proportionally different; the frequency response doesn't seem as 'lumpy' as the headphone amp in the 18i20.

[Ben Asaro]

SHORT UPDATE: I configured the 18i20 so that it's feeding it's stereo output directly from two of the line outputs, bypassing the monitor volume control.

The gap definitely widened here! Listening to Black Star by Yngwie Malmsteen, the hard panned guitars are EXTREMELY wide/far apart, and you can so clearly hear the pick attack that I can visualise how he's playing just with the audio alone.

Stunning!

[Martin Walker]

This all sounds very positive and upbeat - thanks Ben!

Martin

[Ben Asaro]

Finally had a chance to unbox the NDH 20s. All I can say is, wow. The presentation is so uncolored, it actually threw me. If I take them off and then put them back on, I actually jumped a couple of times when the music started; the combination is so fast and detailed it’s like a high performance car. The isolation is great and I must have a small head because I don’t find them particularly restrictive. They are, however, quite heavy.

I can’t recommend the NDH 20s, everyone hears different and has different needs, but I think they will serve me well!

[Ben Asaro]

Thought I would post quick follow up to this subject as I've now had the NDH 20/RNHP combination for a few months.

In the intervening months I've upgraded my general purpose headphones from ATs to Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's ... I say 'upgrade' because I'm not a huge fan of the way the ATs handle low frequencies. Compared to the 770's rather smiley-face presentation, the Neumanns are far less 'impressive' but are still really natural sounding to my ears.

Once your ear acclimates to them, the NDH20s are a pleasure to listen to for extended periods of time; they are very revealing without being 'zingy' in the upper frequencies.

The mixing work I've done thus far using the NDH20s also seems to translate really well to my monitors and to other devices.