Jimmy Page's guitar

For all tech discussions relating to Guitars, Basses, Amps, Pedals & Guitar Accessories.
Forum rules
For all tech discussions relating to Guitars, Basses, Amps, Pedals & Guitar Accessories.

Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Albatross »

I've just been watching Zep performing Kashmir at their 'Celebration Day' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD-MdiUm1_Y

Its amazing!

But does anyone know what that odd wire and knob is behind Mr Page's bridge? Its clearly visible at 9:06.

It seems to be the B(now A in dadgad) string passing over the bridge in a channel attached to some kind of know.

Anyone know what that's about? Fine tuner? Weird whammy? Part of the electronics?

btw, if you never watched this performance, better make sure you're sitting down! :crazy:
User avatar
Albatross
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3145 Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:00 am Location: Airstrip 1, Eurasia

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by al_diablo »

I think it's a b bender.

Great performance of one of my favourite songs too!
al_diablo
Regular
Posts: 227 Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Wonks »

Yes, a B-bender mechanism. There's also a channel cut out of the stop tailpiece so that the B string runs straight from that rear anchor point to the bridge.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19210 Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am Location: Freethorpe, Norfolk, UK
Reliably fallible.

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Wonks »

It was purchased by JP from a chap called Mike Ladd in Memphis, who's uncle used to work for Gibson. It's allegedly a bitza guitar the uncle made from old and new parts. It was (like all LPs except LP customs of the time) originally a Goldtop with a pancake body. Mike Ladd was a hot-rod enthusiast, so he repainted the top in a custom colour. In modern pictures, you can see the gold finish underneath on the top edge where Jimmy's arm has worn away the red.

It was used on stage from 1973 onwards and can be seen (prior to the much later string bender) in The Song Remains The Same.

From what i can see form the pictures, the string bender knob has a small hole in it that the string fits through from the inside (I assume it must push onto a shaft like a control knob). The knob is rotated by the bending mechanism and acts very much like a tuner to increase and decrease sting tension.

If you are interested in Mr Page's guitars, I can highly recommend the book "Jimmy Page: The Anthology". 390+ pages mainly of of guitar and equipment pictures.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19210 Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am Location: Freethorpe, Norfolk, UK
Reliably fallible.

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Martin Walker »

Albatross wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:10 pm btw, if you never watched this performance, better make sure you're sitting down! :crazy:

Yep, got that concert on DVD - and Kashmir sounds far better than the vinyl album version 8-)

Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 22581 Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:44 am Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Albatross »

All very interesting. Thanks.
User avatar
Albatross
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3145 Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:00 am Location: Airstrip 1, Eurasia

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Moroccomoose »

Martin Walker wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:19 pm
Albatross wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:10 pm btw, if you never watched this performance, better make sure you're sitting down! :crazy:

Yep, got that concert on DVD - and Kashmir sounds far better than the vinyl album version 8-)

Martin

I was lucky enough to catch that one first hand.... waited patiently for 4 years for the CD to come out.... guess I need to see the DVD now!
Moroccomoose
Frequent Poster
Posts: 568 Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:00 am Location: Leicester

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Dynamic Mike »

Wonks wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:49 pm
If you are interested in Mr Page's guitars, I can highly recommend the book "Jimmy Page: The Anthology". 390+ pages mainly of of guitar and equipment pictures.

Sadly it seems all the signed editions have gone. But I'll definitely hinting for this when my birthday comes around.

Here's Jimmy teaching some promising youngsters how to play Kashmir.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODidAgdL40Y
Dynamic Mike
Longtime Poster
Posts: 5291 Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:00 am
Why do bad things mostly seem to happen to people who light up a room when they enter it?

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by resistorman »

Good drummer! But no bass player?!
User avatar
resistorman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2988 Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:00 am Location: Asheville NC
"The Best" piece of gear is subjective.

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by BWC »

Uh...I believe that's one of the world's best bass players seated at those two keyboards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul ... (musician)
BWC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 901 Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:12 am Location: FL, US
BWC

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by resistorman »

BWC wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:26 am Uh...I believe that's one of the world's best bass players seated at those two keyboards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul ... (musician)

Oh.
User avatar
resistorman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 2988 Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:00 am Location: Asheville NC
"The Best" piece of gear is subjective.

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Wonks »

JPJ often played Moog bass pedals whilst playing keyboard parts for live versions of Zep songs.

Here's the routing on the JP red LP. It's pretty extensive and changed the tone of the guitar (and not for the better). Note the mod necessary to the lever to make room for the selector switch (which has to be squeezed in at an angle to fit).

Image

Here's someone else's LP fitted with a standard Parsons/White B-bender mechanism.

Image

It's a lot chunkier and the bar runs right across the pickup selector switch location, so that would have have to have been moved somewhere else. It pays to be wealthy enough to have someone engineer a better solution for you!
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19210 Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am Location: Freethorpe, Norfolk, UK
Reliably fallible.

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Albatross »

Might have been easier to grow the mechanism off the bottom strap stud?
User avatar
Albatross
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3145 Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:00 am Location: Airstrip 1, Eurasia

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Drew Stephenson »

I think that's how The Birds guitarist had his set up. Name escapes me for the moment.
User avatar
Drew Stephenson
Apprentice Guru
Posts: 29722 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am Location: York
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Wonks »

It's certainly possible, though the main reason not to seems you'd have to modify the way you operated it, and it might not work well.

If you watch this chap, he relies on the strap being grippy enough not to move, and pulls down on the neck to operate the mechanism. As you are already gripping the neck when playing, it's easy to incorporate the extra movement required.

https://youtu.be/KhB2o1BeLNU

With the mechanism operated from the end strap button, you'd somehow have to push down on the guitar with your arm. Whilst you've probably got your forearm resting on the top edge of the guitar, pressing down with enough force to operate the bender whilst still playing could be tricky and a bit painful.

Then there's the question of leverage, so you'd still need a similar length primary arm, and the spring would need to be shorter and correspondingly stiffer. You may need to add in some gearing to keep it physically small, which will add extra resistance.

With today's CNC machinery, it's probably very feasible to make something compact that would work (though you'd need a different final mechanism for Fender style bridges compared to Gibson style bridges. But it might just end up too awkward to physically operate.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19210 Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am Location: Freethorpe, Norfolk, UK
Reliably fallible.

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Wonks »

blinddrew wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:51 pm I think that's how The Birds guitarist had his set up. Name escapes me for the moment.

The Parsons/White B-Bender name might give you a clue.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19210 Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am Location: Freethorpe, Norfolk, UK
Reliably fallible.

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Wonks »

But that was front strap-button operated.

There have been rear strap variations, but the easiest to install are the various palm-benders, which have lever/levers by the bridge, looking a bit like a small Bigsby trem (and in fact Bigsby make/made one).
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19210 Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am Location: Freethorpe, Norfolk, UK
Reliably fallible.

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by BigRedX »

Why the "B" string?

As a guitarist I can't recall wanting to bend that particular string any more or less than any of the others.
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3125 Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Rwkitch »

New to me :)

There's a very comprehensive article here:

https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/everyt ... ret-weapon
Rwkitch
Poster
Posts: 48 Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 7:31 pm

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Wonks wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:13 pm
blinddrew wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:51 pm I think that's how The Birds guitarist had his set up. Name escapes me for the moment.

The Parsons/White B-Bender name might give you a clue.
...
But that was front strap-button operated.

You are, of course, right again Wabbit. It's been a while since read that part of the book.
User avatar
Drew Stephenson
Apprentice Guru
Posts: 29722 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am Location: York
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by N i g e l »

BigRedX wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:37 pm Why the "B" string?......

other strings are available,
bend it like Bolan....

T.Rex 20th Century Boy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpMa6JADDJM
User avatar
N i g e l
Frequent Poster
Posts: 4826 Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:40 pm Location: British Isles

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by rockydennis »

A nice video with Will Ray (The Hellecasters), probably the best guitarist nobody ever talks about, demonstrating the Hipshot B-Bender (he had G&L and Fender signature guitars with one).
https://youtu.be/g7EsLbBy6z8
rockydennis
Regular
Posts: 145 Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:36 am

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by BigRedX »

N i g e l wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:23 am other strings are available,
bend it like Bolan....

T.Rex 20th Century Boy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpMa6JADDJM

Sorry I don't get it. In that clip Bolan appears to be bending the strings the conventional way using his fretting hand.

The B-Bender seems like a lot of faff and instrument modification to be able to bend a single string without using your fingers as normal.
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3125 Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Wonks »

It's all about trying to duplicate the sound of a pedal steel on a guitar. Not a sound I like at all, though there are some very talented players of that instrument (that I'll never deliberately listen to).

It's mainly a country music thing, so it's not a thing I'd ever have on a guitar of mine.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 19210 Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am Location: Freethorpe, Norfolk, UK
Reliably fallible.

Re: Jimmy Page's guitar

Post by Dynamic Mike »

BigRedX wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:50 am The B-Bender seems like a lot of faff and instrument modification to be able to bend a single string without using your fingers as normal.

I've never used one but always assumed it allowed you to bend the B string sharp whilst playing a chord without affecting any of the other strings, as you would with a pedal steel.

Similarly you could play a chord staring with it sharp & drop it a whole tone. None of my fingers can do that! But I get your point if you're referring to single note solo playing, it would be a lot of faff for a very small gain.

Edit: So basically what Wonks said whilst I was still typing. Except I adore pedal steel players! :lol:
Dynamic Mike
Longtime Poster
Posts: 5291 Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:00 am
Why do bad things mostly seem to happen to people who light up a room when they enter it?
Post Reply