New monitors.

[Arpangel]

Here we go again, enthusiasm for this job comes and goes, you know my situation, untreated basement, low ceiling, generally not good.
I’m even prepared to make some acoustic changes, OH GOD!
Two things to sort out, monitors, my taste is clear, slightly lean sound, with as much detail as I can get for my money, to give you an idea, ones I’ve heard that I like are Acoustic Energy AE22, and ATC SCM20/25.
I’m going to install some bass trapping, absorbers at the mirror points, but I’m not sure what to do with the ceiling, it’s about seven foot high, with open beams. I’ve seen these,

https://www.studiospares.com/acoustics ... 465525.htm

I could use them, but they seem expensive??
The budget for monitors is unsure, those two I mentioned, aren’t available, accept the 25’s, which are way over budget, so any suggestions on cheaper alternatives with a ball park sound would be appreciated.
I have to do this while enthusiasm is high, otherwise it’ll get shelved for another ten years.

[Drew Stephenson]

Next time you're in London get yourself along to KMR and have a listen to some.

Also a broadband ceiling cloud is rarely a bad idea.

[BillB]

All my training (= reading SOS Forum since early 2000’s) says to sort out the room acoustics properly, then worry about the monitors. Perhaps you should part with a bit of cash for some pro advice from some of the excellent folks hereabouts (SSG?). That will get you the best value result, without worrying about who sells cheap/expensive traps.

[Arpangel]

Bill, the basement is a dump, full of domestic stuff, fridges, tumble drier, etc etc, that can’t be moved, it’s a really hostile environment for recording, in every way, but that’s it, that’s what I’ve got, and it can’t be changed.
So as you can see, any "professional" help wouldn’t be working from a clean slate, they would be wasting their time, and my money.
I’m planning on making "remedial" changes, to address some clear issues, standing waves, boomy bass, mainly.
My main issue are lots of tunnels, and brick arches that go back into the walls, I think I may need to fill these up?
Drew, do you think a cloud would work on such a low ceiling? or could it make things worse?
Yes, monitor auditioning is on the cards.

[James Perrett]

I'd be making use of the gaps between the beams. Stuff them with Rockwool RW3 and then add a fabric covering. The ceiling in my studio is about the same height as yours and the ceiling treatment has certainly helped.

Have you heard any of the Neumann monitors? They'd certainly be worth a listen. Also look at Phil Ward's reviews in the magazine. Since you like the AE22's that he designed, your taste would probably be similar to his. Here's a list of reviews that he has written...

https://www.soundonsound.com/author/phil-ward

[Hugh Robjohns]

I wouldn't recommend spending money on monitors under your current circumstances. It would be pointless.

If you have spare cash burning holes in your pockets, sort the room out acoustically.

You might then start to become aware of the limitations of your Behringer Truths, and only at that point should you even consider spending money on better monitors.

[BillB]

Bill, the basement is a dump, full of domestic stuff, fridges, tumble drier, etc etc, that can’t be moved, it’s a really hostile environment for recording, in every way, but that’s it, that’s what I’ve got, and it can’t be changed.
So as you can see, any "professional" help wouldn’t be working from a clean slate, they would be wasting their time, and my money.

Fair point. Out of interest, are these things in use?

[Arpangel]

Bill, the basement is a dump, full of domestic stuff, fridges, tumble drier, etc etc, that can’t be moved, it’s a really hostile environment for recording, in every way, but that’s it, that’s what I’ve got, and it can’t be changed.
So as you can see, any "professional" help wouldn’t be working from a clean slate, they would be wasting their time, and my money.

Fair point. Out of interest, are these things in use?

Yes, they are, we’ve got four fridges and a tumble dryer, there’s fridge noise, it's damp, and noisy, generally. But I like it, it’s cozy.
More importantly it doesn’t affect my music, in any way, it would just be nice, to try and "improve" things a bit.

I wouldn't recommend spending money on monitors under your current circumstances. It would be pointless.

If you have spare cash burning holes in your pockets, sort the room out acoustically.

You might then start to become aware of the limitations of your Behringer Truths, and only at that point should you even consider spending money on better monitors.

That’s a perfectly good logical way of looking at this Hugh, and you’re probably right, but I can only improve the acoustics within the current way the room is, it really needs structural alterations.
If I do spend money on monitors, the sound "will" change, it’s has to, they’ll be different speakers! I've always been aware of the weaknesses of the Truths, but it hasn’t mattered, I adjust, and put up with them, it would just be good to get something a bit better.
I remember Mikes room, that wasn’t good either, but he always spent money on good monitors, and you could hear a big difference when he changed them, so it was worth it, even though the room wasn’t good he got monitors that sounded good in his room, the returns may not have been as much as if it was a treated room, but it was a compromise.

[Drew Stephenson]

I have a lower ceiling than that and the cloud helps here.
But reading the new info about fridges etc, I'd say as well as doing your bass traps and mirror points, build some removable plugs to block the cavities that are holding all your fridges etc.
At least give yourself a fighting chance before splashing out on new monitors.

[RichardT]

I think sorting the acoustics out is priority number 1 too!

My studio space is also a basement, quite narrow in fact and far from ideal. Acoustic treatment has made a huge difference. I’ve gone for a live-end dead-end model (as has Drew) where the trapping is concentrated at one end of the room.

I would get yourself a LOT of broadband trapping - you’ll need it in that space. I used monster traps from GIK and some homemade ones also.

I’d recommend using rockwool-based absorbers for the mirror points too, rather than foam. They’re just more effective in every way.

[Hugh Robjohns]

This is gear lust as some form of displacement activity not rational studio improvement. Reason, logic and common sense play no role in this...

[ManFromGlass]

Gear lust does help keep the economy going!
Spend, spend, spend!

[soulgreed returns]

If you have a space you can leave stuff set up and create music, even if its not “dedicated”, you’re a big step closer to studio perfection than most of us.

Having said that I remember what its like to have an oppressive rehearsal space and thats not good either. Why not screen out the domestic appliances somehow? Curtains, removable panels... and fix any damp as well, maybe a small dehumidifier?

All going to be cheaper than a new pair of monitors, even with some acoustic treatment....

[Nazard]

I have only once, ever, had gear lust, when, as a teenager I had worked, and saved money to buy Calrec mics. The phantom power needs, simply blew the budget, so I settled for a pair of AKG D202E1s, still in use!

How about the Spendor Classic 4/5?

My reference has always been that Beeb, monitor, space compromised, OB sound, LS35/A, etc.. Why? Because that sums up my circumstances too!

I was lucky enough to chat with Spencer, when the bass units in my BC1s failed:, almost simultaneously . A quick replacement, at cost only, and they are still my 'reference' speakers.

[Nazard]

Just a thought.

The HiFi mob don't treat their rooms, yet spend +++on speakers, etc..

How does that work? I remember that Alastair Robertson-Aikman, of SME, did have a listening room of four pairs of stacked ELS57s. In rather a good space.

[James Perrett]

I must admit that I'd rather use great monitors in an untreated room rather than poor speakers in a well treated room. The best way to work in an untreated room is to be close to the monitors and work at fairly low levels.

[Drew Stephenson]

I get that, but there's 'untreated room' and 'room with four fridges'!

[Music Wolf]

Ok, time to address the elephant in the room. Four fridges?

[RichardT]

Just a thought.

The HiFi mob don't treat their rooms, yet spend +++on speakers, etc..

How does that work? I remember that Alastair Robertson-Aikman, of SME, did have a listening room of four pairs of stacked ELS57s. In rather a good space.

This is a can of worms…

[forumuser931182]

Yes HIFI works like this:
A philosopher and a theologian, both blind, are challenged to go into a pitch-black room and find a black cat that isn’t there. The theologian finds him.

[Arpangel]

I must admit that I'd rather use great monitors in an untreated room rather than poor speakers in a well treated room. The best way to work in an untreated room is to be close to the monitors and work at fairly low levels.

I tend to be with you James, also, one mans treated room is another mans dead and and lifeless.
As for gear lust, isn’t that what this place is about? it wouldn’t exist without it.
Sure, I don’t "need" another pair of monitors, the ones I have are "OK" and could last me forever, but I’m not broke, I can allocate some cash to a new pair, and maybe improve things a bit, what’s wrong with that?
There’s loads of things in my studio I didn’t "need" but are good to have, let’s face it, we don’t need any of it, most of us here are amateurs that do it for fun.

I have only once, ever, had gear lust, when, as a teenager I had worked, and saved money to buy Calrec mics. The phantom power needs, simply blew the budget, so I settled for a pair of AKG D202E1s, still in use!

How about the Spendor Classic 4/5?

My reference has always been that Beeb, monitor, space compromised, OB sound, LS35/A, etc.. Why? Because that sums up my circumstances too!

I was lucky enough to chat with Spencer, when the bass units in my BC1s failed:, almost simultaneously . A quick replacement, at cost only, and they are still my 'reference' speakers.

Are you sure you’re not a friend of mine? you sound exactly like someone I know.
BC1’s? We need a couple of bass drivers, impossible to get, I rang Spendor, they don’t have any. Forget about re-coming them, they won’t sound the same.
I had a pair of SP1’s, not bad monitors, a bit rich sounding, great hi-fi speakers though, some of the best.
Stacked Quads were a fave of many a hi-fi person, one top reviewer we knew had two stacked pairs, and his favourite turntable was a Technics 1200 that had been modified, and Quad amps.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

one mans treated room is another mans dead and and lifeless.

I heartily disagree. For just under €200 in materials I treated my room. Added Sonarworks. It is a joy to listen to music with very modest system- Event 20/20 and Quad 405. It's made the room a little deader and surprisingly more quiet. It's lovely. I get even more engrossed in music there. It's a joy. I highly recommend it.

The noise in your room is I think a source of stress when making music. New speakers will not change that. At least look at minimising the noise. Maybe replace the 4 fridges with one or two bigger, quieter ones?

[RichardT]

I think gear lust can be an impediment to making music. If it genuinely serves the music, then great, but if gets out of hand, then it’s just a distraction.

It reminds me of the definition of an audiophile - someone who use music to listen to their system.

[Arpangel]

one mans treated room is another mans dead and and lifeless.

I heartily disagree. For just under €200 in materials I treated my room. Added Sonarworks. It is a joy to listen to music with very modest system- Event 20/20 and Quad 405. It's made the room a little deader and surprisingly more quiet. It's lovely. I get even more engrossed in music there. It's a joy. I highly recommend it.

The noise in your room is I think a source of stress when making music. New speakers will not change that. At least look at minimising the noise. Maybe replace the 4 fridges with one or two bigger, quieter ones?

I want those new Smeg Dolce and Gabbana fridges, see here

https://www.countryandtownhouse.co.uk/ ... g-fridges/

Trouble is, they’re £36,000 each.
I’ve been quoted less for a purpose built studio.



Event monitors, Opals, they are on my list.

[ef37a]

Now, it is not that often that I agree with Tony (or indeed understand WTF he is after!) but in this case I have some sympathy.

IF you are cursed with a difficult room about which you have limited power to treat, then IMHO buying some really good, accurate monitors at least gives you a 'benchmark'. You know what the speakers are producing is 'right' and so you can proceed to treat the room to a limited degree. The point about close working is also well made.

Just my 2 pee'oth.

Dave.