I'm intrigued by the computerless workflow alluded to in the Why I Love... the 1010music Blackbox article this month by Paul Nagle.
However, it wasn't clear to me precisely what that entailed. Is this something along the lines of making a multitrack recording using a standalone zoom f12?
I suppose the arranging aspect exceeds the capacity of a simple multitrack recorder?
A concrete example of building a song using this device would be illuminating (and, as mentioned in the article, refreshing!)!
I quoted below (in italics) the relevant section of the article, peppered with ??? at spots I'd love to know more about.
...the BlackBox is, at its heart, a non‑linear recorder ideal for grabbing, triggering and ???arranging??? audio, no matter how long and indulgent it might be, and ???without multitrack restrictions about lining it all up???.
? Because recorded audio can be placed in later? Off the grid?
Since ???recordings can be synchronised to an incoming MIDI Clock???, I can layer drum‑machine or step‑sequencer performances just as easily. Before I knew it, none of my setups — ambient or rhythmic — felt right without a BlackBox plumbed in ready to glue everything together.
? Freely recorded audio synced to a click track?
I’ve now got ???three???!
? How are these used concurrently?
In the dim and distant past, I always recorded in complete takes, usually with effects, and returning to this level of commitment seems incredibly healthy and refreshing
? Can mixed stems then be exported?
? Can one write volume automation?
? How does one record a phantom power mic into it?
Thanks, very curious!
Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "Black Box" article?
Hi claz,
I'll probably paste this in and make a horrible mess, but here goes:
In a multitrack recorder, the tracks are aligned and play the same every time. I like to arrange on the fly and start elements when I want - more like you would with an Akai MPC - but typically working with much longer recordings than the MPC can handle. BTW an Octatrack can also start/stop long recordings freely - however you can't record direct to its CF card so are limited to its RAM.
Up to 16 recordings can be triggered manually whenever you like. You can have triggering quantized or free.
It means I can be aware of a click track while playing. See below for LONG explanation.
See below.
Actually yes and filter automation too, although not from the BB itself. BUT it's only practical when using my Cirklon setup. Cirklon allows you to record MIDI CCs freely into very long patterns (Elektrons aren't able to do that kind of thing). I've done it only rarely - e.g. to disguise the transition of a loop that loops badly - typically I'll close the filter towards the end and have Cirklon trigger the BB playback in the same pattern: one example where I do want events to line up the same every time.
It's connected to a regular mixer's subgroup.
And now the long, old man rambling version lifted from Facebook in response to similar questions. It may clarify and confuse. Apologies for any typos.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Workflow Ritual
1) Where do I start?
Probably my only hard decision and I'm glad there are only four choices: DT, CK1/2 or OT. These are the Digitone, Cirklon and Octatrack which provide the tempo for each setup (even when there is no tempo required). Different instruments are attached to each setup, and there are so many hanging off Cirklon that I've divided that into two, by mixer. I have a four-sided dice.
2) Project name & tempo?
After throwing my dice, I need a name - and my first port of call is a random word generator coughing up words to inspire me. If I'm working on an Elektron device, I tend to marry up banks with key - so bank D will put me in D, for example. It helps me find stuff later. Once I have a name I can live with, I go to a blank pattern, hopefully with a few free adjacent ones for variations, and I name the pattern. If I'm using Cirklon, I create a new song and bypass the whole random name thing, allowing Cirklon to generate the name automatically. Yay!
Next I create a BlackBox Preset with that name and a prefix of DTn, CK (mixer) 1 or 2, OTn - the n referring to the current Elektron project number. A Cirklon song is a direct equivalent to a BB preset but an Elektron project contains a large number of BB creations, although I do have the restriction of only four per OT bank (you can't name OT patterns, just the four 'kits' each bank can access - so I name those instead). Last off I usually close my eyes and spin the tempo encoder. This may change if necessary later.
3) That's it, I'm in business.
I start noodling. If I feel like doing something ambient then I might turn to the GR-1 and start exploring some samples, twisting them until I hear something interesting, or I might plug a few random pins on the Synthi until I am excited by its strangeness. Here's where a bit of smoke and pretty lights can help.
Alternatively, I might fire off a groove on an attached drum machine, either an old pattern I made earlier or a new blank one knocked in then and there. I might fire in a sequence of notes, either on a synth like the Super 6 or System 8 or use one of my main sequencers which have more poke.
Hopefully the combination of sound and sequence will suggest a musical idea worth chasing. I'm much more of a chaser than a composer but sometimes a tune might come, probably a cheesy one. The Synthi might ask to join in with some wailing or screaming; maybe I'll pour some abstract noises into a looper until they make an interesting stew.
4) Anyway, as soon as something starts sounding interesting, I press the button on the mixer to route the relevant instrument (or instruments), drum machine, effect, whatever into the BB. Then I choose a BB pad - the choice dependent on the type of material. The BB is great but it doesn't let you colour pads to your own taste/need, so I tend to use the middle four for sequencer/groove stuff and go around the edge squares with stuff I play manually, ambient noises etc. I can access 16 of these recordings at once.
When entering the BlackBox record menu I choose either a loop (typically between 32 and 128 bars) if it's regular/rhythmic and Custom if not.
Easily the BB's biggest weakness (from my point of view) is its inability to set a specific number of bars to record in advance. I'd love to tell it to record, say, a 117 bar loop then trust it to loop smoothly once it reaches that count. However, I've had to get used to setting it to Custom and watching the counter, stopping at the bar I want. For example, I recorded something yesterday that was based on a 5-step sequence - and I recorded 40 bars of it using 'Custom'. I set it to loop, it loops nicely, so all good.
Some other ideas that might help (?)
Since the BB only records two channels at once, you might not always want to record sequence & delay/reverb/etc. effects simultaneously. Recording the sequence dry on one pass and just the effect on another pass is already interesting because, remember, you aren't forced to line them up the same way during playback. And every time can be different! For even more subtle fun, you can employ some sequencer randomisation tricks - e.g. having some notes masked/repeated/transposed on the first record pass which won't be replicated exactly during the FX pass. It's quite lovely to hear some notes getting the 'wrong' delay or others getting a ton of reverb while some are dry - at least I think so. Since you can start your BB captures independently, whole afternoons can go by just playing with the start points of a couple of 64 bar sequences, or random-length ambient performances.
5) The 'finished' piece.
Usually, within a couple of hours I'll have something new rolling around sounding utterly wonderful and captivating. At that point I'll fire up a little Zoom recorder and capture a mix for listening. Incidentally, if I rolled a '4' and I'm working from the Octatrack setup, it's in a different room and I have a Zoom multitrack in there, connected. Usually I still record everything to stereo but I have connected all the BB's other outputs too. So I can, if sending material to others, create 4 stereo stems using the BB's grouping. I will do a mix performance as usual but grab it to the Zoom R24.
I don't do volume automation. Instead, I give each BB pad its own envelope so they come in and go out how I wish. Then I do my stereo mix. Other than level boosting in Wavelab (if I later decide the track is worthy), that's now my finished creation.
On very rare occasions I'll go back and do another BB mix performance if I didn't get the best structure/arrangement first time. It's also possible to take all the individual recordings and lay them out in Logic and do conventional things with them. I've done this once and it reminded me why I usually leave the computer switched off.
So ... nothing sophisticated really. It's all normal mixer and gear use, just easily captured and with the advantage that, should tempo be relevant, everything can agree on what it is. I prioritise working directly and intuitively and hardly ever go back and fix anything. Better to scrap it all and do something new/better.
In a rush to get into the studio, or I'd have made this more concise... possibly.
Paul
I'll probably paste this in and make a horrible mess, but here goes:
In a multitrack recorder, the tracks are aligned and play the same every time. I like to arrange on the fly and start elements when I want - more like you would with an Akai MPC - but typically working with much longer recordings than the MPC can handle. BTW an Octatrack can also start/stop long recordings freely - however you can't record direct to its CF card so are limited to its RAM.
Because recorded audio can be placed in later? Off the grid?
Up to 16 recordings can be triggered manually whenever you like. You can have triggering quantized or free.
Freely recorded audio synced to a click track?
It means I can be aware of a click track while playing. See below for LONG explanation.
I’ve now got ???three???! How are these used concurrently?
See below.
Can mixed stems then be exported? Can one write volume automation?
Actually yes and filter automation too, although not from the BB itself. BUT it's only practical when using my Cirklon setup. Cirklon allows you to record MIDI CCs freely into very long patterns (Elektrons aren't able to do that kind of thing). I've done it only rarely - e.g. to disguise the transition of a loop that loops badly - typically I'll close the filter towards the end and have Cirklon trigger the BB playback in the same pattern: one example where I do want events to line up the same every time.
How does one record a phantom power mic into it?
It's connected to a regular mixer's subgroup.
And now the long, old man rambling version lifted from Facebook in response to similar questions. It may clarify and confuse. Apologies for any typos.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Workflow Ritual
1) Where do I start?
Probably my only hard decision and I'm glad there are only four choices: DT, CK1/2 or OT. These are the Digitone, Cirklon and Octatrack which provide the tempo for each setup (even when there is no tempo required). Different instruments are attached to each setup, and there are so many hanging off Cirklon that I've divided that into two, by mixer. I have a four-sided dice.
2) Project name & tempo?
After throwing my dice, I need a name - and my first port of call is a random word generator coughing up words to inspire me. If I'm working on an Elektron device, I tend to marry up banks with key - so bank D will put me in D, for example. It helps me find stuff later. Once I have a name I can live with, I go to a blank pattern, hopefully with a few free adjacent ones for variations, and I name the pattern. If I'm using Cirklon, I create a new song and bypass the whole random name thing, allowing Cirklon to generate the name automatically. Yay!
Next I create a BlackBox Preset with that name and a prefix of DTn, CK (mixer) 1 or 2, OTn - the n referring to the current Elektron project number. A Cirklon song is a direct equivalent to a BB preset but an Elektron project contains a large number of BB creations, although I do have the restriction of only four per OT bank (you can't name OT patterns, just the four 'kits' each bank can access - so I name those instead). Last off I usually close my eyes and spin the tempo encoder. This may change if necessary later.
3) That's it, I'm in business.
I start noodling. If I feel like doing something ambient then I might turn to the GR-1 and start exploring some samples, twisting them until I hear something interesting, or I might plug a few random pins on the Synthi until I am excited by its strangeness. Here's where a bit of smoke and pretty lights can help.
Alternatively, I might fire off a groove on an attached drum machine, either an old pattern I made earlier or a new blank one knocked in then and there. I might fire in a sequence of notes, either on a synth like the Super 6 or System 8 or use one of my main sequencers which have more poke.
Hopefully the combination of sound and sequence will suggest a musical idea worth chasing. I'm much more of a chaser than a composer but sometimes a tune might come, probably a cheesy one. The Synthi might ask to join in with some wailing or screaming; maybe I'll pour some abstract noises into a looper until they make an interesting stew.
4) Anyway, as soon as something starts sounding interesting, I press the button on the mixer to route the relevant instrument (or instruments), drum machine, effect, whatever into the BB. Then I choose a BB pad - the choice dependent on the type of material. The BB is great but it doesn't let you colour pads to your own taste/need, so I tend to use the middle four for sequencer/groove stuff and go around the edge squares with stuff I play manually, ambient noises etc. I can access 16 of these recordings at once.
When entering the BlackBox record menu I choose either a loop (typically between 32 and 128 bars) if it's regular/rhythmic and Custom if not.
Easily the BB's biggest weakness (from my point of view) is its inability to set a specific number of bars to record in advance. I'd love to tell it to record, say, a 117 bar loop then trust it to loop smoothly once it reaches that count. However, I've had to get used to setting it to Custom and watching the counter, stopping at the bar I want. For example, I recorded something yesterday that was based on a 5-step sequence - and I recorded 40 bars of it using 'Custom'. I set it to loop, it loops nicely, so all good.
Some other ideas that might help (?)
Since the BB only records two channels at once, you might not always want to record sequence & delay/reverb/etc. effects simultaneously. Recording the sequence dry on one pass and just the effect on another pass is already interesting because, remember, you aren't forced to line them up the same way during playback. And every time can be different! For even more subtle fun, you can employ some sequencer randomisation tricks - e.g. having some notes masked/repeated/transposed on the first record pass which won't be replicated exactly during the FX pass. It's quite lovely to hear some notes getting the 'wrong' delay or others getting a ton of reverb while some are dry - at least I think so. Since you can start your BB captures independently, whole afternoons can go by just playing with the start points of a couple of 64 bar sequences, or random-length ambient performances.
5) The 'finished' piece.
Usually, within a couple of hours I'll have something new rolling around sounding utterly wonderful and captivating. At that point I'll fire up a little Zoom recorder and capture a mix for listening. Incidentally, if I rolled a '4' and I'm working from the Octatrack setup, it's in a different room and I have a Zoom multitrack in there, connected. Usually I still record everything to stereo but I have connected all the BB's other outputs too. So I can, if sending material to others, create 4 stereo stems using the BB's grouping. I will do a mix performance as usual but grab it to the Zoom R24.
I don't do volume automation. Instead, I give each BB pad its own envelope so they come in and go out how I wish. Then I do my stereo mix. Other than level boosting in Wavelab (if I later decide the track is worthy), that's now my finished creation.
On very rare occasions I'll go back and do another BB mix performance if I didn't get the best structure/arrangement first time. It's also possible to take all the individual recordings and lay them out in Logic and do conventional things with them. I've done this once and it reminded me why I usually leave the computer switched off.
So ... nothing sophisticated really. It's all normal mixer and gear use, just easily captured and with the advantage that, should tempo be relevant, everything can agree on what it is. I prioritise working directly and intuitively and hardly ever go back and fix anything. Better to scrap it all and do something new/better.
In a rush to get into the studio, or I'd have made this more concise... possibly.
Paul
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Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
The Blackbox was originally reviewed back in 2019 - see review here:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/1010music-blackbox
For those unaware of the article, to clarify, here's a direct link (it's unlocked for all to read) to Paul's "Why I Love... The 1010music Blackbox"
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SOS FOR ARTISTS - our brand new ecosystem designed to support musicians/artists, producers, and collaborators at every stage of the music-making journey.
Get your FREE (2nd Edition) RECORDING TECHNOLOGY eBook
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PODCASTS - 200+ ear-grabbing episodes across 3 Channels - more podcasts released weekly. Search "Sound On Sound" on Apple, Amazon, Spotify.Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "Black Box" article?
Paul Nagle wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:30 pm Hi claz,
I'll probably paste this in and make a horrible mess, but here goes....
More concise? Dude, this was epic!
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Get your FREE (2nd Edition) RECORDING TECHNOLOGY eBook
PODCASTS - 200+ ear-grabbing episodes across 3 Channels - more podcasts released weekly. Search "Sound On Sound" on Apple, Amazon, Spotify.
Get your FREE (2nd Edition) RECORDING TECHNOLOGY eBook PODCASTS - 200+ ear-grabbing episodes across 3 Channels - more podcasts released weekly. Search "Sound On Sound" on Apple, Amazon, Spotify.Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
Me too. Excellent response from Paul (thus the compliment) and thank you for the excellent article links.
Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
No worries Zuke - to an old bloke like me, 'epic' means War & Peace-style wordy prose that can induce a comatose state after Chapter 4... 
(I preferred the BBC series with Anthony Hopkins, back in the days when binge-watching box sets was not a technical possibility on BBC 2 TV and having to wait a week to watch the next episode was more exciting than waiting for the next 'Vigil' episode to drop!)
(I preferred the BBC series with Anthony Hopkins, back in the days when binge-watching box sets was not a technical possibility on BBC 2 TV and having to wait a week to watch the next episode was more exciting than waiting for the next 'Vigil' episode to drop!)
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Get your FREE (2nd Edition) RECORDING TECHNOLOGY eBook
PODCASTS - 200+ ear-grabbing episodes across 3 Channels - more podcasts released weekly. Search "Sound On Sound" on Apple, Amazon, Spotify.
Get your FREE (2nd Edition) RECORDING TECHNOLOGY eBook PODCASTS - 200+ ear-grabbing episodes across 3 Channels - more podcasts released weekly. Search "Sound On Sound" on Apple, Amazon, Spotify.Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
My bad. I need to word things better.
Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
Dear Paul,
That was great. Thanks for taking the time to elaborate! This kind of concrete scenario really illuminates your article for me.
I'm prone to distraction-by-computer, so I've been looking for a DAW-less way to build songs.
I'd suggest to the SOS editors that the official article includes a link to your description here!
That was great. Thanks for taking the time to elaborate! This kind of concrete scenario really illuminates your article for me.
I'm prone to distraction-by-computer, so I've been looking for a DAW-less way to build songs.
I'd suggest to the SOS editors that the official article includes a link to your description here!
Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
Glad it wasn't too hard to get through - I know I am a bit of a windbag and would know it even if my wife didn't keep reminding me.
Confession: back in the day when writing music was my day job, I used Logic and did things in normal bar counts for music typically lasting 2 1/2 to 3 mins. I don't miss all that for a moment.
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Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
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Get your FREE (2nd Edition) RECORDING TECHNOLOGY eBook PODCASTS - 200+ ear-grabbing episodes across 3 Channels - more podcasts released weekly. Search "Sound On Sound" on Apple, Amazon, Spotify.Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
I've tidied up the post quoting in the original response to make it easier to follow now the thread is linked to the feature and will therefore receive more traffic.
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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
Cheers Hugh - that helps clarify what's being quoted a lot easier.
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PODCASTS - 200+ ear-grabbing episodes across 3 Channels - more podcasts released weekly. Search "Sound On Sound" on Apple, Amazon, Spotify.
Get your FREE (2nd Edition) RECORDING TECHNOLOGY eBook PODCASTS - 200+ ear-grabbing episodes across 3 Channels - more podcasts released weekly. Search "Sound On Sound" on Apple, Amazon, Spotify.Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
Much appreciated, looks better now.
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Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
Paul I've been searching for a portable Sampling Workstation that's not MPC.
When I think of Sampling I think of Art of Noise Whose Afraid of Art of Noise, JmJarre Zoolook, also Yello.
What I want to do been done by them decades earlier.
Recording sounds that interest me thereafter making sequences, melodies, accompaniment from those sounds in a simple straightforward way.
Can I do this on the 1010MBB?
When I think of Sampling I think of Art of Noise Whose Afraid of Art of Noise, JmJarre Zoolook, also Yello.
What I want to do been done by them decades earlier.
Recording sounds that interest me thereafter making sequences, melodies, accompaniment from those sounds in a simple straightforward way.
Can I do this on the 1010MBB?
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Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
Dear tea for two,
I don't use the BlackBox in a conventional way so I'm probably not the best person to answer that. I'm fairly sure it does all that stuff, multisampling and sequencing and chopping samples up. (I do sometimes chop a long recording in half if I cock up but want to keep the good bits.) They recently added a load of updates giving it LFOs, master EQ and detailed images of little knobs where the lovely clear text used to be - but I haven't updated because none of the new features will help the way I work. Actually, I'm kinda dreading them fixing some of the issues I still have because I'll have to suck up all the bloat, pretend knobbage and tiny, tiny text too.
You could do worse than join the 1010music forum or the Facebook group where normal users live.
I don't use the BlackBox in a conventional way so I'm probably not the best person to answer that. I'm fairly sure it does all that stuff, multisampling and sequencing and chopping samples up. (I do sometimes chop a long recording in half if I cock up but want to keep the good bits.) They recently added a load of updates giving it LFOs, master EQ and detailed images of little knobs where the lovely clear text used to be - but I haven't updated because none of the new features will help the way I work. Actually, I'm kinda dreading them fixing some of the issues I still have because I'll have to suck up all the bloat, pretend knobbage and tiny, tiny text too.
You could do worse than join the 1010music forum or the Facebook group where normal users live.
Last edited by Paul Nagle on Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
Exactly that. I already have a Zoom R24 for when I want each recorded element temporally bound to all the others.
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Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
Paul Nagle wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:18 pm Dear tea for two,
I don't use the BlackBox in a conventional way so I'm probably not the best person to answer that. I'm fairly sure it does all that stuff, multisampling and sequencing and chopping samples up. (I do sometimes chop a long recording in half if I cock up but want to keep the good bits.) They recently added a load of updates giving it LFOs, master EQ and detailed images of little knobs where the lovely clear text used to be - but I haven't updated because none of the new features will help the way I work. Actually, I'm kinda dreading them fixing some of the issues I still have because I'll have to suck up all the bloat, pretend knobbage and tiny, tiny text too.
You could do worse than join the 1010music forum or the Facebook group where normal users live.
I haven't been called Dear in a while it's quite nice lol.
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Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
tea for two wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:45 pm
I haven't been called Dear in a while it's quite nice lol.
When I'm short of ideas I always try for nice.
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Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
Dear Paul there was a Wily E Peyote studio performance, still one of my favourite Electronica studio performances, i can't seem to locate it anylonger on youtube.
Edit found it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ1D5rqvVLY
Edit found it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ1D5rqvVLY
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- tea for two
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Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
tea for two wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:18 pm Dear Paul there was a Wily E Peyote studio performance, still one of my favourite Electronica studio performances, i can't seem to locate it anylonger on youtube.
Edit found it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ1D5rqvVLY
I have lots of different online identities. The hope was that people would take longer to get bored of me and my incessant gushing. Everyone's doing such great videos these days that I've sorta let it slide...
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Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
I found this a fascinating discussion and it seems like a good topic for future SOS articles, rather than discussing how something was mixed and mastered this is moving to the initial creative side. How do people set things up so that ideas can be captured and developed without technical issues getting in the way. I purchased an Akai Force with this in mind but disappointly it can currently only record around 5 minutes of audio at a time, a limitation that was never mentioned in the SOS review. I am hoping the next firmware update will address this. It's still great though, I feel like I'm on the bridge of the Enterprise with all the lights and buttons, so I can see where you're coming from with the black box as well.
Re: Elaboration on workflow alluded to in "1010music Blackbox" article?
tea for two wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:18 pm Dear Paul there was a Wily E Peyote studio performance, still one of my favourite Electronica studio performances, i can't seem to locate it anylonger on youtube.
Edit found it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ1D5rqvVLY
Ooh, I'm loving that now as well - thanks for mentioning it tea for two!
Martin
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