I'm going to rip my whole CD collection.

[Sam Spoons]

What file format should I use? When I last did it, over a period of years, HDD storage was expensive and I used either mp3 or AAC. Now, as various HDD failures and computer changes have resulted in my library being fragmented and some being lost I intend to re-import all my CDs (and, eventually, selected vinyl LPs) into a single library. I want iDevice compatability but don't want that to prevent me playing stuff on non-Apple devices in the future. FLAC seems the obvious choice but iTunes doesn't play (or rip to) FLAC, would ALAC be the best alternative (non-Apple compatibility being the possible issue) or should I just store everything as .wav and to hell with the file size?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Tiz a dilemma...

Even though storage space is now cheap and plentiful, it seems silly to store as raw-pcm Wav files when lossless saves half the space (and therefore cost) for the same quality.

And while it is possible to store metadata within Wav files, there still doesn't seem to be a universal standard like there is with mp3.

So, personally, I opted for ALAC (Apple Lossless), predominantly to maintain iThingy compatibility (I have iPods in both cars), but also because the metadata handling is massively better than FLAC so it has all the convenience of MP3s when it comes to being able to search for composers, or artists or whatever.

I've been using ALAC for years now and get on very well with it.

Lots of things are compatible with ALAC -- I use SONOS systems around the house which works fine with it, for example -- and there are various converters of course for the PC.

If I need a linear PCM file from the archive for something, I generally drag and drop into iZotope RX and then re-save in whatever format I need, but other audio editors can do the same just as easily. (I think you usually need to have installed Quicktime to access the format converter).

Foobar can also handle ALAC files natively, and I use that a lot.

[Sam Spoons]

Thanks Hugh, that is exactly what I wanted to hear (though iDidn't really know that when I posted)

[Drew Stephenson]

Of course the delight that is UK copyright law means you will be breaking the law. Though you might not have been when you first ripped them. Ripping audio CDs has gone from illegal to legal and back to illegal.

[Sam Spoons]

I highly doubt that anybody is going to find out TBH and i have no moral qualms as all the CDs I will rip are ones I have bough and paid for.

Interesting to know how all those Brennan B2 owners get on too... I did consider buying a B2 but decided that it would just be me succumbing to a case of "shiny thing syndrome" (again ).

edit:- So technically it's legal for manufacturers to sell devices like the Brennan B2*, HDD TV recorders, Smart TVs etc but it is in breach of UK copyright law for me to use them to actually record anything! Utter madness...

* iPods are ok if you only use them to play content you have paid to download from the iTunes music store or similar...

[shufflebeat]

(though iDidn't really know that when I posted)

iLike what uDid there.

[Sam Spoons]

Of course the delight that is UK copyright law means you will be breaking the law. Though you might not have been when you first ripped them. Ripping audio CDs has gone from illegal to legal and back to illegal.

As long as I ripped them between 01/10/14 and 17/08/15 I'll be alright Do you think I should change the clock in my Mac for a few weeks so the new rips will be time stamped 01/01/15?

[Drew Stephenson]

I highly doubt that anybody is going to find out TBH and i have no moral qualms as all the CDs I will rip are ones I have bough and paid for.

Interesting to know how all those Brennan B2 owners get on too... I did consider buying a B2 but decided that it would just be me succumbing to a case of "shiny thing syndrome" (again ).

edit:- So technically it's legal for manufacturers to sell devices like the Brennan B2*, HDD TV recorders, Smart TVs etc but it is in breach of UK copyright law for me to use them to actually record anything! Utter madness...

* iPods are ok if you only use them to play content you have paid to download from the iTunes music store or similar...

Yep, for a while, before things became legal, the Brennan adverts used to have a little bit of small print at the bottom basically saying, "this is technically illegal but the major labels have all, rather sensibly, agreed that copying your own cds for your own use, is actually fine with us."
Then the law changed to keep up with reality and all was good.
Then for reasons that no-one I've ever met or talked to about copyright (and that's actually quite a lot* of people) understood, about a year or two later this exemption was taken off the list and it became illegal again.

In order to preserve the public's faith in the copyright regime I've taken the liberty of reporting you to the correct authorities, if I tell the bailiffs that you'll be in on Monday morning is that convenient?


* I'm all kinds of fun** at parties.
** This might not actually be true.

[Sam Spoons]

See above

Apparently it was the High Court that removed the 'private copying' amendment, their reasons are probably in the transcript but I CBA reading it (assuming I would understand more than one word in ten if I did).

[Wonks]

I highly doubt that anybody is going to find out TBH and i have no moral qualms as all the CDs I will rip are ones I have bough and paid for.

Interesting to know how all those Brennan B2 owners get on too... I did consider buying a B2 but decided that it would just be me succumbing to a case of "shiny thing syndrome" (again ).

I have recently acquired one. It is good in parts. Not 100% convinced that it sounds just as good as the original CDs in my CD player for all the albums. Some sound fine but some sound a bit 'congested'. Possibly me imagining it, with one album following on from another album seamlessly highlight the differences in sound quality between the original CDs without the break induced by having to take a CD out and put another one in the machine. I was also wondering whether FLAC suffered from MP3-style distortion issues when compressing .wavs if they are heavily limited and touching 0dBFS with possible inter-sample overs.

As mentioned, the meta-data storage is limited with FLACs, no genre-style indexing. I'd say that the Brennan software has grown organically from an initial bright idea, which means that it is frustrating at times that it can't do some simple things you think it should do. But it is being improved all the time and it does support Sonus speakers over wi-fi, something I'm just about to try out.

And it's ability to also play internet radio stations is cool.

It has a reasonable web interface, and a pretty basic iOS app.

It accesses one CD database for info, so if your CD hasn't been entered by someone on the database, or it has a country-specific album ID that's not on the database despite it being a multi-platinum album, then it's manual album and track data entry time.

Overall I like it, but it could be better.

It took a while to rip 1300 CDs, but at least they are now all up in the loft, not taking up space in the lounge.

And I probably ended up buying at least 80-100 new CDs to fill in gaps in my collection that were made obvious when ripping.

[Hugh Robjohns]

And I probably ended up buying at least 80-100 new CDs to fill in gaps in my collection that were made obvious when ripping.

that happened to me too...

[The Elf]

FLAC here. No regrets. I can always convert them back to WAV, should the need arise and then to another format. I see no downside to FLAC at all.

[adamburgess]

Friend of mine started doing this, before a sudden sad departure from this earth a few months ago.

He got a rackmounted PC preloaded with Vortexbox software on it, among some other stuff. He started saving everything as FLAC, I believe. It's integrated into a lovely Bryston and JBL rig. Everything appears from the server PC on Roon, played thru a Bryston DAC.

His wife is carrying on ripping everything. It's a whole room full, and she doesn't fancy carrying them all around when she inevitably downsizes homes.

She pops a CD into the 'toaster', and two mins later all is good - the PC runs totally headless and goes to an external SSD for a backup.

All the album art and sleeve notes etc. work brilliantly.

[Sam Spoons]

FLAC here. No regrets. I can always convert them back to WAV, should the need arise and then to another format. I see no downside to FLAC at all.

Had FLAC been supported by 'the fruit' I wouldn't have needed to post on here but it's unlikely I'll leave the Apple ecosystem anytime soon (or, probably, ever) so I've just nipped back to Jan 2014 for a few hours to rip into iTunes as Apple lossless (ALAC?) files.

[The Elf]

I play all my FLAC media on my iPad and iPhone no problem. Then again I don't use Apple's player.

I left iTunes behind years ago and never looked back. Now I can use any player *I* choose and store my audio where *I* like.

[adamburgess]

Admittedly a Mac fanboy for ever. But, yes, iTunes has always been absolute garbage.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I left iTunes behind years ago and never looked back. Now I can use any player *I* choose and store my audio where *I* like.

To be fair, you can do that and still use iTunes if you want to.

I do! I store my music archive on NAS drives, copying what I want to other drives as required, as well as to iPods, and I play it using SONOS, Foobar, and the iPods in the cars, as well as the occasional outing on iTunes (although I find the latter incredibly slow to load in Win10, it's still handy for ALAC metadata editing).

[The Elf]

I'm sure things have changed, but I'm not going back - Apple had their chance with me and blew it.

FLAC is supported across all platforms and I only have to store my music on one drive for it to be playable absolutely anywhere - car included.

[Martin Walker]

I'm also a totally FLAC man on my PC for general music storage, but although my car accepts USB sticks, it only recognises MP3 files.

Doubt whether I'd hear the difference in the car anyway

Martin

[DGL.]

I'm a bit of an outlier in the fact I use WMA lossless as it's an all Windows ecosystem here and I can't be bothered to change.

As for ripping I still use WMP as it's what I know and if necessary I can use multiple CD drives at once if I have a lot of CD's to do.

All gets stored on a mixture of a NAS and my laptop, as I need the music on the move/at work so it's only being in the NAS is not workable.

[The Elf]

All gets stored on a mixture of a NAS and my laptop, as I need the music on the move/at work so it's only being in the NAS is not workable.

That's the very reason I put mine on my NAS - so I have constant access to it anywhere on the move, from any device, with no need to store anything locally. I most often tap into my NAS from CloudBeats (or other streaming cloud players, such as EverMusic) on my iPhone. CloudBeats also shows up in Apple CarPlay, making it easy and safe to play music in the car.

Of course, your NAS has to permit external access to allow this, but I think most do.

[DGL.]

All gets stored on a mixture of a NAS and my laptop, as I need the music on the move/at work so it's only being in the NAS is not workable.

That's the very reason I put mine on my NAS - so I have constant access to it anywhere on the move, from any device, with no need to store anything locally. I most often tap into my NAS from CloudBeats (or other streaming cloud players, such as EverMusic) on my iPhone. CloudBeats also shows up in Apple CarPlay, making it easy and safe to play music in the car.

Of course, your NAS has to permit external access to allow this, but I think most do.

Mine does but you have to take into account upload speeds and the fact that I might not be connected when I want access to the music, esp. now I have a new laptop and the battery life is no longer measured in minutes! (or messages popping up telling you the battery is knackered!). Plus I have a cheapo mobile contact and as such only get 1.5GB of data per month, luckily my aging Windows phone takes microSD cards and as such it has a 512GB one fitted so I can store all the music I need on it with no issues.
It's also nice having the extra backup as the NAS and it's HDD's are no spring chicken! (over 10yrs old now I believe)

[The Elf]

Both CloudBeats and EverMusic will let me download to iPad/Phone, so I get the best of both worlds - streaming when connected, but a few favourites to hand when I'm not. Later I can release the ones downloaded and replace with others.

I actually have two NAS's - one backing up the other, then a cloud service backing up the backup!

[Jorge]

Does the industry have a mid-long-term plan for file format(s) that is most likely to remain easily accessible for playback in 20 years? I have lots of LPs from the 60s and 70s that I still listen to on a turntable, and I intend to listen to most of my CD collection for the foreseeable future. Ripping CDs does take time and effort and I really don't relish the thought of 15 years from now having to do massive amounts of file conversion (if that is even possible) of FLAC, ALAC, mp3 or even WAV file collections from old CDs.