t-sun wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:35 pm
I remember the CR-78 clone, I also remember wondering why on earth they'd bother. The sound was only slightly different from the 808...
The CR-78 sounds nothing like the 808! Listen to any of the sounds - they're very different. And the CR-78's quirky guiro, metal and gorgeous tambourine - not on the 808!
I have a TR-8S and the sounds I miss most from it are the CR-78, so I've added my own samples. I really wish that Roland had seen fit to add the CR-78 as modelled sounds to the TR-8/TR-8S. Yet they chose to give us the tiresome TR-707/727... sigh.
Ah, I forgot about the missing sounds. The basic kit is very similar if a bit softer and smoother on the 78 as I recall. It's been many years since I had a chance to play with a CR series machine and my abiding memory was that it sounded more organ-top-accompaniment-machine-oriented than the more up-front 808, but definitely similar sound generation. Also, extremely oblique programming, particularly in comparison with the X0X style. I'm fine with Behringer cloning old machines, but if it means keeping the negatives like that I'll pass.
And the 707 was just incredibly flat. Not as flat as the 505 but, still. Back fifteen years ago when I was thoroughly broke but wanted a drum machine with that Roland programming method and a trigger output, I had one. I think I sold it and bought a 626 at half the price
Yes - I think Phil chose that sound because it was musically/percussively interesting, but mostly because it presented such an interesting contrast to his explosive physical drumming (as per the so-famous-its-a-cliche intro to 'In the Air' etc)
BillB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:26 pm
Yes - I think Phil chose that sound because it was musically/percussively interesting, but mostly because it presented such an interesting contrast to his explosive physical drumming (as per the so-famous-its-a-cliche intro to 'In the Air' etc)
I can most definitely relate to that. Having spent most of the 80s trying to make my various drum machines (Boss Dr Rhythm, Roland TR808, Yamaha RX11) sound like real drums, when I finally got something that was reasonably close (Alesis HR16) I joined a band with an actual drummer with a traditional drum kit and then spent all my programming time trying to make it produce sufficiently contrasty sounds!
[also Schrödinger's Berhinger - if you dont look, they may be working on it & imminent release is an option]
Have you googled bcr2000 faults and fixes repairs ? Might be quicker given current supply chain issues and dev lab jobs not being working from home compatible.
ZAQ audio have some hints for one of the BCR2000 issues -
I finally managed to get my hands on an RD-9. Initial impressions have been that the build quality is, naturally, similar to the RD-8: Solid, looks great, knobs are frustratingly slow to turn though so doing those snappy Jeff Mills style mixing knob twiddles feels a bit like it's stuck in treacle. I expected that since the RD-8 is the same, and not a problem. It arrived with the most recent firmware installed.
The RD-9 Synthtool interface is how you dump/load patterns and make other changes (enhanced vs authentic, which btw I definitely prefer authentic at this point). It seems pretty useful. I would probably be used to it by now if it weren't apparently impossible to update the firmware on my RD-8 past 1.3.5
Speaking of which, I pulled out the RD-8 to see if I could find a way to update the firmware again. Nope, files still aren't on the Behringer website and it's still not detected by Synthtool. Now I remember why I set it aside months ago out of frustration.
I've had similar 'can't find it' situations from my studio PC, but plogging exclusively into my laptop everything worked fine. It could be worth trying different USB ports/hugs and/or borrowing a laptop to effect the update.
N i g e l wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:07 pm
Have you googled bcr2000 faults and fixes repairs ? Might be quicker given current supply chain issues and dev lab jobs not being working from home compatible.
ZAQ audio have some hints for one of the BCR2000 issues -
Yeah, I've had a look around on a few occasions. I think it's the power supply on this unit. Generally once its warmed up its ok, but it still throws a hissy fit every now and then, sometimes that causes the PC to do the same.
I see what your up against, in that the PSU has a funny transformer indicating a switcher PSU without clearly defined safe areas [mains / low volts sides of olde transformer PSU]. Some areas may be working at d.c. voltages higher than mains, which could be shocking
The Elf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:10 am
I've had similar 'can't find it' situations from my studio PC, but plogging exclusively into my laptop everything worked fine. It could be worth trying different USB ports/hugs and/or borrowing a laptop to effect the update.
Oh it's not that it can't find the RD-8, it's that the 1.X firmware for the RD-8 doesn't communicate with Synthtool, it predates it. Compatibility was added in the 2.02 update, but in order to update to that I need a later firmware than the 1.3.5 which is on their site. 1.4.? I think.
N i g e l wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:28 pm
I see what your up against, in that the PSU has a funny transformer indicating a switcher PSU without clearly defined safe areas [mains / low volts sides of olde transformer PSU]. Some areas may be working at d.c. voltages higher than mains, which could be shocking
Other than very simple stuff (switches, fuses etc.) I stay clear of any mains electricity. Not in my skill set!
The Elf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:10 am
I've had similar 'can't find it' situations from my studio PC, but plogging exclusively into my laptop everything worked fine. It could be worth trying different USB ports/hugs and/or borrowing a laptop to effect the update.
Oh it's not that it can't find the RD-8, it's that the 1.X firmware for the RD-8 doesn't communicate with Synthtool, it predates it. Compatibility was added in the 2.02 update, but in order to update to that I need a later firmware than the 1.3.5 which is on their site. 1.4.? I think.
I updated my RD-8 to the latest 2.x version straight from 1.2 or whatever it was, the one it shipped with from the very start. No trouble at all. You don't need to update to some intermediate stage, from what I remember. I'd read a few negative reports but I found it quick and painless, against expectation.
The Elf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:10 am
I've had similar 'can't find it' situations from my studio PC, but plogging exclusively into my laptop everything worked fine. It could be worth trying different USB ports/hugs and/or borrowing a laptop to effect the update.
Oh it's not that it can't find the RD-8, it's that the 1.X firmware for the RD-8 doesn't communicate with Synthtool, it predates it. Compatibility was added in the 2.02 update, but in order to update to that I need a later firmware than the 1.3.5 which is on their site. 1.4.? I think.
I updated my RD-8 to the latest 2.x version straight from 1.2 or whatever it was, the one it shipped with from the very start. No trouble at all. You don't need to update to some intermediate stage, from what I remember. I'd read a few negative reports but I found it quick and painless, against expectation.
I’ve tried multiple cables, multiple computers, different versions of windows. Synthtool does not work with anything under 2.0 and there is no direct path to update from the version 1.3.5 on the RD-8 page to any version of 2.
If you still have the rd-8 update tool version you used to update it, it would be a huge help if you uploaded it somewhere.
EDIT TO ADD: this file https://mediadl.musictribe.com/media/PL ... _Rev.A.pdf indicates that it should be possible, but only if the RD-8 has had a failed update? Again, it currently runs the 1.3.5 version without issue but is not detected by Synthtool on any computer in any mode, using the same USB cable that has been used to load 1.3.5 repeatedly.
t-sun wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:10 pmIf you still have the rd-8 update tool version you used to update it, it would be a huge help if you uploaded it somewhere.
I don't remember the process tbh, but I think it might have been the Synthtribe app, the most recent version of which is on their RD-8 page. It's been a few months and I don't recall the details. But I definitely updated it from the original early factory OS which I'd had on my machine since getting it new when they first came out.
If anyone wants a RD-9 Andertons have them in stock for the time being, I convinced myself to get one for some reason, probably just because I think the RD-8 needs a companion more than anything
Got to admit, my heart sank when I saw this. I had been hoping for something new. Is it really the case that these old designs are so good that they can't be improved upon, inspire new innovation, or only be churned out as clones?
There's a great line in Crossroads (the blues/guitar movie): "You've got to take the music on past where you found it." Behringer really aren't doing that. I'm sure its a great business model.
The Elf wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:08 pm
I'm kinda with you. How many ways of endlessly repeating 16 notes do we need?
I had the - to me - bizarre realization that other people who work with analog sequencers may not have tried sequencing the gate pulses at anything other than steady 16th/8th/4th etc notes when I watched the announcement video of the new Roland boutique JX and JD, which come with a sequencer and trigger input.
On another note regarding my RD-8 issues I posted about previously, I finally got ahold of someone in the Behringer support group and they have diagnosed it as a hardware issue and provided an RMA. Glad I finally got through to someone, my purchase date was 1/1/21.
