Closed back headphones

[ef37a]

Suggestions please for a pair with good sound isolation and good sound quality.

Yes, I know those two parameters are at some odds with each other but I have a dim recollection of a couple of reviews of closed back cans that were really pretty good soundwise? Old brain cannot of course remember WTF they were!

Budget is around £120 but will to go a bit more if there is a significant leap in sound quality.

Dave.

[shufflebeat]

Shure sh840 is nice.

It's a bit heavy and loose so I add a little "Spanish Footballer" headband if I'm listening while doing a Jane Fonda workout.

They always seem to break in the same place but I think I've worked out that is down to how you store them, further info available on this.

[Mike Stranks]

When I was doing a lot of 'have to be in the same room' location recording I used Sennheiser HD280 Pro closed-back headphones. I bought them in part because of their excellent attenuation figure - better than some headphones billed specifically as external noise attenuation cans.

I was always pleased with them from a quality and isolation point of view. Not in the same class as my open-back AKG K702s, but certainly 'good enough'.

[Drew Stephenson]

In that price range it's definitely worth looking at the Beyerdynamic DT770.

[MarkOne]

Another vote for Shure

I use the SRH440 extensively to monitor our live stream mix and I've always been pleased with the sound. Comfortable too.

I'm sure (see what I did there?) the 840s would be a step up in quality.

[Fishnish]

Another very happy Beyerdynamic DT770 user here.

[ef37a]

Thanks for all your suggestions chaps. I am torn between the Beyers and the Sennheisers, probably will go for the latter.
Got to be wary of the impedances, a deal looked good until I noticed "250 Ohms" and as these are a birthday present for son in Feb he will need 80 Ohms min' because, in addition to a mixer and an AI he will I am sure need to use them on a tablet and phone.

I can find the Sennies at £75 so might treat myself to a pair as well!

Dave.

[Bob Bickerton]

Beyer DT770 80 Ohm here (x4) - good isolation and comfortable for long periods. They replaced my Sennheisers FWIW.

Bob

[ef37a]

Beyer DT770 80 Ohm here (x4) - good isolation and comfortable for long periods. They replaced my Sennheisers FWIW.

Bob

Thanks Bob, that helps a lot (not!)
Only kidding. I think I shall let this run a few more days and then have another think.

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

Nobody has mentioned Beyer HD-25 amongst the best in class isolation, durable and IMO they sound good. I find them pretty comfortable too but as they are on ear rather than over ear so some find them uncomfortable for extended listening.

[Bob Bickerton]

I think Sam means Sennheiser HD-25. Yes, good isolation, a little bass heavy and some folk find them less comfortable for long periods. Very portable though if that’s a factor.

Bob

[Nazard]

Sennheiser HD300 Pro, perfect (at least for me), closed back. But I did buy them when on 1/2 price offer.

Very neutral and great bass. Not an HD 600, but the best closed back I've used, (including the DT100 and variants).

[shufflebeat]

I think Sam means Sennheiser HD-25. Yes, good isolation, a little bass heavy and some folk find them less comfortable for long periods. Very portable though if that’s a factor.

Bob

Yup, I think that's a Senn-ior moment there. Mind you, I get Audio Technica and AKG mixed up frequently, and I'm only... moving on.

+1 for hd25 as well. I find them a bit shouty in the top but great for tracking and clinical hunting during mixing.

Not good for overall mix decisions (for me).

[Mike Stranks]

DT100 is a 'meh' set of headphones IMO. I think some people - like me - bought them because they'd seen lots of pics of them in studio set-ups and thought of them as an 'industry standard'.

I got them with insurance money after my beloved AKG K160 were stolen. The Beyers sounded "all mid" by comparison.

I've subsequently learnt that the DT100s were superb in their studio role as talent foldback cans. Anything else... decidedly average.

Now the DT150s... that's another story...

[James Perrett]

The closed back headphones that I use are the Beyer DT250's and the Sennheiser HD25's. If you want something with a reasonable balance then I'd go for the DT250's. They're not superficially impressive but everything is there in reasonable proportions. They are also comfortable for long sessions and rugged enough to cope with professional studio life. If something breaks then spare parts are easily obtainable.

The HD25's are more portable and sound superficially more impressive but that's because the midrange is more recessed. They're great for finding faults like hums and clicks and enjoyable for listening but they're not easy to mix with. They are also less comfortable if you wear glasses. The HD25's live in the side pocket of my mobile rack and have travelled the world with me but I prefer to use the DT250's in the studio and HD600's for mixing.

[shufflebeat]

DT100 is a 'meh' set of headphones IMO. I think some people - like me - bought them because they'd seen lots of pics of them in studio set-ups and thought of them as an 'industry standard'.

Very dependent (in my limited experience) on having the right amp. They come in a variety of impedances and getting the wrong match can cause big issues.

However, you are right about the response, they are great for "getting into" a multi-BV scenario as a performer but not pleasant to listen to actual music with.

[ef37a]

DT100 is a 'meh' set of headphones IMO. I think some people - like me - bought them because they'd seen lots of pics of them in studio set-ups and thought of them as an 'industry standard'.

Very dependent (in my limited experience) on having the right amp. They come in a variety of impedances and getting the wrong match can cause big issues.

However, you are right about the response, they are great for "getting into" a multi-BV scenario as a performer but not pleasant to listen to actual music with.

I would be interested to know Shufflebeat what you consider is a good or bad 'match' of headphone impedance* and amplifier output resistance. I say "resistance" because it almost always is a physical resistor.

Historically headphone amplifiers had an output resistance of 30 to 120 Ohms but in recent years there has been a fashion to make amps with a quoted Rsource of around ten or even 'zero' Ohms. This is IMHO a bad thing as it makes the amplifier vulnerable to damage (unless VI limiting is included and that can have detrimental effects on sound quality) and makes 'power sharing' difficult between headphones of differing resistances.

Obviously if you can afford a Grace or Benchmark amplifier, no problem but most of us cannot.

*Headphones too are almost pure resistances and their measured DC resistance is usually equal to or even slightly greater than their quoted nominal "impedance".

Dave.

[shufflebeat]

DT100 is a 'meh' set of headphones IMO. I think some people - like me - bought them because they'd seen lots of pics of them in studio set-ups and thought of them as an 'industry standard'.

Very dependent (in my limited experience) on having the right amp. They come in a variety of impedances and getting the wrong match can cause big issues.

However, you are right about the response, they are great for "getting into" a multi-BV scenario as a performer but not pleasant to listen to actual music with.

I would be interested to know Shufflebeat what you consider is a good or bad 'match' of headphone impedance* and amplifier output resistance. I say "resistance" because it almost always is a physical resistor.

Just to establish my academic credentials on the subject:

Historically headphone amplifiers had an output resistance of 30 to 120 Ohms...

This much I'm aware of, the rest...

...but in recent years there has been a fashion to make amps with a quoted Rsource of around ten or even 'zero' Ohms. This is IMHO a bad thing as it makes the amplifier vulnerable to damage (unless VI limiting is included and that can have detrimental effects on sound quality) and makes 'power sharing' difficult between headphones of differing resistances.

Obviously if you can afford a Grace or Benchmark amplifier, no problem but most of us cannot.

*Headphones too are almost pure resistances and their measured DC resistance is usually equal to or even slightly greater than their quoted nominal "impedance".

Dave.

...is a cloud of very lovely words that I can follow the general sense of and would love to understand but don't.

My only understanding of the topic is based on experience which, in total, is:

I have a set of dt100 which I think is 400ohms. If I try to drive them with any of my my usual kit they sound dead and barely whisper. If I run the signal through either of my very basic headphone amps I can get something useful out of them, both in volume and tonal detail.

When I say "match" I'm not necessarily referring to impedance which, thanks to the patience of folks here I now have a practical working understanding of but claim no detailed insight of. I'm just talking about plugging it into a suitable box.

[ef37a]

Ah, sorry. You were trying to drive relatively high impedance headphones, 400 Ohms from a source that clearly could not put out sufficient signal voltage to drive them adequately and it is likely the source ran into distortion trying.

This is precisely why the 'old fashioned' cans amps were so useful. The high impedance phones did not drop much signal through the internal resistor and thus you enjoyed nearly the full voltage capability of the amplifier. However, connecting a set of say 32 Ohms cans, much of the voltage WAS lost on said internal resistance. A very simple and low cost 'solution' NOT to be mess with in my book.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it"

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

I think Sam means Sennheiser HD-25. Yes, good isolation, a little bass heavy and some folk find them less comfortable for long periods. Very portable though if that’s a factor.

Bob

Yes indeed,

[jimjazzdad]

No love for Audio-Technica here? Or perhaps the pricing in the UK is not as favourable as in NA? Anyway, a pair of ATH M50 has be my go-to for location recording for years. They were top of the line when I bought 'em but I see there are two superior versions (by model # and price!) that I will have to audition when it comes time to replace my well worn M50s

[ef37a]

No love for Audio-Technica here? Or perhaps the pricing in the UK is not as favourable as in NA? Anyway, a pair of ATH M50 has be my go-to for location recording for years. They were top of the line when I bought 'em but I see there are two superior versions (by model # and price!) that I will have to audition when it comes time to replace my well worn M50s

Oh they are comparable on price, around £105 but I was immediately put off a bit when I searched for the speccs' notably sensitivity (low 99dB) and found both specc sheet and user manual on one of those crappy single sheet .pdfs that cram about 50 languages on in teensy tiny print.

Not for me I fear but thanks for the contribution.

Dave.

[jimjazzdad]

Oh they are comparable on price, around £105 but I was immediately put off a bit when I searched for the speccs' notably sensitivity (low 99dB) and found both specc sheet and user manual on one of those crappy single sheet .pdfs that cram about 50 languages on in teensy tiny print.

Not for me I fear but thanks for the contribution.

Dave.

My studio cans are all 600 ohm, so the AT M50 at 99 dB sensitivity seem really easy to drive by comparison. I don't think there are too many headphone amps that wouldn't get you sufficient volume level with the Audio Technica. While I agree that their web site spec sheets and manuals are less than ideal, I think the sound is pretty good as closed-back headphones go; maybe let your ears be the judge...

[ef37a]

Oh they are comparable on price, around £105 but I was immediately put off a bit when I searched for the speccs' notably sensitivity (low 99dB) and found both specc sheet and user manual on one of those crappy single sheet .pdfs that cram about 50 languages on in teensy tiny print.

Not for me I fear but thanks for the contribution.

Dave.

My studio cans are all 600 ohm, so the AT M50 at 99 dB sensitivity seem really easy to drive by comparison. I don't think there are too many headphone amps that wouldn't get you sufficient volume level with the Audio Technica. While I agree that their web site spec sheets are less than ideal, I think the sound is pretty good; maybe let your ears be the judge...

Sadly MY ears are no judge at all and this is for my son who has normal hearing AFAIK but little experience of various headphone types. As I said however, he will certainly need to use them on a phone and tablet and I think 400 R cans at 99dB sensitivity are going to be pretty soft. My AKG K92s are 32R and 113dB and deliver all the sound I need and then some!

Dave.