What Synth?

[bonefixer]

Hello all, newbie here after advice.
I’m primarily a pianist, but over the last few years have been recruited into a number of cover/tribute bands, including Pink Floyd and Genesis. I definitely tend towards Prog Rock.
Up to now I’ve done everything with Mainstage, including a Pink Floyd set where I used a single 88 key controller for everything - there was heavy use of splits, layers and patch changes.
I want to go more “old school” and I’ve got a Yamaha CP-88 for piano/epiano, and a Yamaha YC-61 for Hammond Organ. I need to top them off with a synth. The plan is to be able to do gigs without a laptop (I’ll still need one for Floyd - samples)
Any suggestions for a synth? I want polyphonic, aftertouch, presets, minimal menu diving, and ideally small as I want it as a 3rd layer.

I really like the look of the UDO Super 6 but it’s a bit pricey for my needs, and perhaps too big for the 3rd layer. Is there anything out there, or should I get a 37 key midi controller and stick with Mainstage for synths.

Thanks in advance.

[resistorman]

So I gather you want an analog-ish synth? For medium cost analog style synths and more, Cobalt 8, Hydrasynth, Peak etc... really, the list is long these days.

[Eddy Deegan]

Hello all, newbie here after advice.

Welcome to the forum!

I’m primarily a pianist, but over the last few years have been recruited into a number of cover/tribute bands, including Pink Floyd and Genesis. I definitely tend towards Prog Rock.

Are we related?

Up to now I’ve done everything with Mainstage, including a Pink Floyd set where I used a single 88 key controller for everything - there was heavy use of splits, layers and patch changes.

I want to go more “old school” and I’ve got a Yamaha CP-88 for piano/epiano, and a Yamaha YC-61 for Hammond Organ. I need to top them off with a synth. The plan is to be able to do gigs without a laptop (I’ll still need one for Floyd - samples)
Any suggestions for a synth? I want polyphonic, aftertouch, presets, minimal menu diving, and ideally small as I want it as a 3rd layer.

A number of times we've collectively recommended the ASM Hydrasynth around these parts (the Sound On Sound review can be found here), and for good reason; it's an extremely powerful synth in a small package. As a pianist you'd probably love the potential offered by polyphonic aftertouch. As a pianist I wish every synth had it!

ASM have recently announced a 'big brother' version in the form of the Hydrasynth Deluxe which is essentially two Hydrasynths in a single instrument with a longer keyboard but the original smaller 4-octave version is reasonably priced, compact, built like a tank and sounds amazing. I'd have no hesitation gigging it with the single proviso that the power supply is wall-wart and wouldn't like someone tripping over the cable. Then again, if they did they'd probably just yank the power connector out and you could reconnect it.

If they did damage it it's of a form that can easily be sourced elsewhere too so I'd have a spare.

This recent topic discusses it in a little more detail as well as offering a couple of alternative suggestions which you might find helpful.

The Hydrasynth does have menus but in practice you don't need to access them much, if at all, for live use as it has a wonderful set of 8 customisable hardware knobs and switches (pageable with a button press) which can be mapped to any parameters you like for live tweaking on a per-patch basis as well as a number of hardware buttons for immediate access to various aspects of the synth engine.

It doesn't offer splits or layers (though the Deluxe version offers 2 of them). Unless I've overlooked one of your requirements then I'd recommend giving it a look.

[Arpangel]

I can play every instrument in the orchestra up to virtuoso standard, but my head has just exploded, and I was wondering if anyone could recommend a synth to rekindle my enthusiasm?
I think it was about five million keyboard players, who recommended the Hydrasynth, they all said it was exactly what I needed.
At this rate, even "I" might have to investigate.

[The Elf]

A died-in-the-wool progger here too...

Boringly I'm also going to put in a vote for Hydrasynth. It truly is a chameleon synth that can turn its hand to most of the prog lead sounds and pads I require. I also use it as my Mellotron poly AT keyboard, paired with some custom-made magic in my laptop.

If four notes of poly might be enough the Elektron Analog (sic) Keys is a good 'under the arm' synth. That takes care of many of my analogue monosynth sounds, with four presets always to hand under dedicated buttons.

And again I'll mention my little favourite of the moment, the MicroMonsta 2. It requires a keyboard, but it also does all of the poly/analogue stuff I would ever need in the space of a box of Maltesers. Tough to find, but worth the effort.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I think it was about five million keyboard players, who recommended the Hydrasynth, they all said it was exactly what I needed. At this rate, even "I" might have to investigate.

You won't like it... too many knobs and menus and display screens....

[Arpangel]

A died-in-the-wool progger here too...

Boringly I'm also going to put in a vote for Hydrasynth. It truly is a chameleon synth that can turn its hand to most of the prog lead sounds and pads I require. I also use it as my Mellotron poly AT keyboard, paired with some custom-made magic in my laptop.

If four notes of poly might be enough the Elektron Analog (sic) Keys is a good 'under the arm' synth. That takes care of many of my analogue monosynth sounds, with four presets always to hand under dedicated buttons.

And again I'll mention my little favourite, the MicrMonsta 2. It requires a keyboard, but it also does all of the poly/analogue stuff I would ever need.

It’s good, I’m not doubting, to have one board that can do many things, especially live.
Size too, these days, can be considerably reduced.
But there are still things that can’t be got away with, in any genre, especially Prog, Jazz, anything really, and that’s things that you simply must have, that can do anything you’ll ever want to do, and these are still, generally considered, even these days.
A Moog, you just have to have one, of some sort, a good electric piano, a Hammond, poly-synth-wise, it’s a Prophet for me, but it could be any good analogue poly.
That’s all I need, everything else isn’t ultimately about sound, it’s about convenience, and size, and yes, money too.

[The Elf]

But there are still things that can’t be got away with, in any genre, especially Prog, Jazz, anything really, and that’s things that you simply must have...

It's not about 'getting away with it', it's about finding your own voice, not carrying the baggage of what has gone before.

I could as much make 'prog' with a Synthstrom Deluge and a laptop as I could with a Hammond, Mellotron and MiniMoog. It's not about the instruments, it's about the creativity of the player.

[Arpangel]

But there are still things that can’t be got away with, in any genre, especially Prog, Jazz, anything really, and that’s things that you simply must have...

It's not about 'getting away with it', it's about finding your own voice, not carrying the baggage of what has gone before.

I could as much make 'prog' with a Synthstrom Deluge and a laptop as I could with a Hammond, Mellotron and MiniMoog. It's not about the instruments, it's about the creativity of the player.

But I’m taking all that into consideration, anyway, after that, there are some things that are really irreplaceable.

[The Elf]

for live use as it has a wonderful set of 8 customisable hardware knobs and switches (pageable with a button press) which can be mapped to any parameters you like for live tweaking on a per-patch basis...

Just wanted to emphasise this. This, for me, is the most important aspect of Hydrasynth as a live performance instrument. I can customise these controls to almost anything - many of my string synth patches, for example, have a phaser on one of those knobs. The destination(s), range and direction of each knob is customisable per patch.

Those knobs are where you put all of the 'I don't want to get into deep editing, I just want to tweak...' controls.

[RichardT]

I'm quite tempted by the deluxe - and I never buy hardware synths! Having poly aftertouch would be great.

A very basic question - does it (or modern synths in general) have a digital out, or do I need to put it through an ADC to get it into Cubase?

[The Elf]

A very basic question - does it (or modern synths in general) have a digital out, or do I need to put it through an ADC to get it into Cubase?

Analogue (balanced) outputs only on the HS. Don't know about the Deluxe yet, but the manual mentions nothing about audio over USB, so I guess it will be the same.

So yes, you will need to plug into an audio interface.

[resistorman]

A very basic question - does it (or modern synths in general) have a digital out, or do I need to put it through an ADC to get it into Cubase?

I used to worry about that, and maybe in the early days of digital it had some merit, but converters and clocks are so good these days it turns out to be a non-issue.

[bonefixer]

Bit of follow up. I borrowed a Hydrasynth to try - great instrument but didn’t get on with it. Well laid out, but I couldn’t seem to get used to having to press a module button to get the knobs to do what I wanted. Instead I’ve just ordered a studiologic sledge black edition as Thomann were selling at such a good price. Clearly not as versatile as the hydra, but virtually no menu one function per control it should do the job. And with version 2 doing split and layer I went for it.

[Eddy Deegan]

Nothing wrong with that at all; the Sledge is a lovely bit of gearage. Thanks for the update, and enjoy!

[Arpangel]

Bit of follow up. I borrowed a Hydrasynth to try - great instrument but didn’t get on with it. Well laid out, but I couldn’t seem to get used to having to press a module button to get the knobs to do what I wanted. Instead I’ve just ordered a studiologic sledge black edition as Thomann were selling at such a good price. Clearly not as versatile as the hydra, but virtually no menu one function per control it should do the job. And with version 2 doing split and layer I went for it.

Did you get any reindeers thrown in?

[Rich Hanson]

Wish I had kept my Sledge. It can be a little buggy, but I liked it.

What was I thinking??

[The Elf]

Bit of follow up. I borrowed a Hydrasynth to try...

Glad you got a chance to try it out for yourself.

Not every instrument gels with every player (I've never had any liking for the Prophet 5, for instance, despite the rest of the world being in love with it!). The important thing is that an instrument is right *for you*. Hopefully the Sledge will be.

[Arpangel]

Bit of follow up. I borrowed a Hydrasynth to try...

Glad you got a chance to try it out for yourself.

Not every instrument gels with every player (I've never had any liking for the Prophet 5, for instance, despite the rest of the world being in love with it!). The important thing is that an instrument is right *for you*. Hopefully the Sledge will be.

The rest of the world no nothing Elf, about the real Pro 5, most bought one and never got out of first gear, pedestrian isn’t in it. I think a lot bought them just because they could, it may as well have been anything that they got there Moog basses on, or string sounds.
Agreed, you have to gel, but the 5 has genuine magic in there, in a very expressive and delicate way.

[bonefixer]

More follow up.
The Sledge arrived today. Unfortunately 4 of the black keys were slightly broken - slightly loose, dropped in height, and didn’t feel right. One of them didn’t return and the note continued until the key was physically lifted back. Probably a simple fix to resite springs or something if you could get into the keybed easily. Overall build quality felt quite flimsy however so I’m not about to try and dismantle the whole thing (there’s no easy access - about 18 screws in the base) and end up breaking something. I’ll send it back for a refund.

Still looking for that perfect polysynth

[ajay_m]

It's a shame you didn't get on with the HS because for gigging it's built like a tank, all the encoders, buttons and the keybed are really good quality and it makes most of the competition at its price point look like cheap plastic toys. ASM have also been exceptionally responsive, addressing a key velocity issue in firmware and with a great user forum on Facebook.

[The Elf]

That's a shame. There are plenty of other options. I'm wondering now if you might want to to take a look at the Novation Summit?

[Arpangel]

More follow up.
The Sledge arrived today. Unfortunately 4 of the black keys were slightly broken - slightly loose, dropped in height, and didn’t feel right. One of them didn’t return and the note continued until the key was physically lifted back. Probably a simple fix to resite springs or something if you could get into the keybed easily. Overall build quality felt quite flimsy however so I’m not about to try and dismantle the whole thing (there’s no easy access - about 18 screws in the base) and end up breaking something. I’ll send it back for a refund.

Still looking for that perfect polysynth

What?
Are you talking about a new item?
WTF?
OK, how about a Behringer Deep Mind? Great synth, great sound, very versatile, and, very reasonably priced, also, very well built.

[bonefixer]

That's a shame. There are plenty of other options. I'm wondering now if you might want to to take a look at the Novation Summit?

I’ve looked - at reviews and demos - and it’s come down to a choice between that and a Prophet Rev2. I think I’m probably going to go with the Rev once I get my refund for the Sledge. Seems to be a bit easier and less menu-y than the Novation. Am I right?

[The Elf]

Hmmm... I'd take the Summit over the Prophet every day, and twice on Sundays, so I'm maybe not the best person to ask.

I actually own a Peak, which is one of my favourite synths. I don't find myself in the Peak's menus very often, and only then to access its mod matrix - the sheer scale of those mod options would not translate to dedicated knobs and buttons.

And, TBH, I find the idea of avoiding all menu diving a bit of a hiding to nothing.

So, as said, maybe take more note of opinions from others on this one.