multiple vocals and only 2 channels compression

[SteveKD]

Hi, looking for advice on how to set up compression.

I'm running the sound for a musical (just vocal mics- the band won't be going through the PA) there will be about 10 singers with solos of various sizes, soloists will also be singing in the chorus. Sometimes a soloist will sing above the chorus. I have 2 channels of compression available (outboard unit).

I take it that putting compression on the whole mix would be a bad idea (don't want a soloist suddenly ducking when an over enthusiastic chorus member joins in).
I could send required vocals to the compressor by Aux sends 1 & 2 - and then ride the pots to give compression to each soloist in turn.
Or I could send required vocals to the compressor placed on Groups 1 & 2 - then could just turn on/off the send to group button.

or is it best simply to not use compression at all?

ideas/suggestions very much appreciated

[James Perrett]

or is it best simply to not use compression at all?

This is usually the best idea - just ride the faders. As this is a musical you should have plenty of chances in rehearsals to practice the moves needed.

[SteveKD]

thanks, I thought that might be the answer.
Unfortunately I'm not going to have lots of rehearsal time, but you can move a fader with your fingers crossed can't you.

[Sam Spoons]

I have only mixed one musical (though I've been involved in many others) and ended up using compressors on all the soloists. I was reluctant at first but it was a (very good) am dram production of Les Miz and the dynamic range of the 'nuclear sopranos' was awe inspiring and definitely needed some taming...

When is it and where are you?

edit :- I have a Behringer stereo compressor you can have for the cost of postage?

[resistorman]

I've mixed something similar with just a buss compressor, but don't expect it to mix for you. Ride the faders with the current lead highest as usual and don't use too much. It does help glue things together and control peaks. If it's a dual mono model, you can run it in series with one side using fast attack and release handling peaks and the other with slow attack and release as a leveler. Again, not too much.

[resistorman]

If there's a way to sidechain it to affect Sopranos and Tenors more that would be good

[SteveKD]

I have only mixed one musical (though I've been involved in many others) and ended up using compressors on all the soloists. I was reluctant at first but it was a (very good) am dram production of Les Miz and the dynamic range of the 'nuclear sopranos' was awe inspiring and definitely needed some taming...

When is it and where are you?

edit :- I have a Behringer stereo compressor you can have for the cost of postage?

Thanks for a really generous offer Sam, I've sent a message.

[Sam Spoons]

[Luke W]

Be prepared for lots of arm exercise

Obviously a lot will depend on the performers and the material, but I tend to use compression on all of the individual sources. It's never particularly heavy handed, but it really helps in taming the extremes and making fader riding a little easier to manage.

Consistency in mic placement is key as well. It's a busy enough job mixing musical theatre without the added stress of peoples mics being in different places every time!

[Mike Monte]

I have done sound with several high school musicals.
Besides individual lavs I usually have five small condenser mics (Shure MS202B/C) suspended from the lighting rig (3 across the front and two across the back).
This way I have five "zones" in addition to the lavs.

In the case of the entire cast singing I will bring down their individual lavs and let the OH mics pick up the chorus parts while keeping the soloist's lav hot.

Asking the cast to move five feet one way or the other (to sound better) is usually not too much to ask for.

It works well...

[Bob Bickerton]

It needs to be said that compression can also be your enemy as well as your friend with a pile of open headset mics on stage - feedback is just stage left waiting to enter.

I've been fortunate to have done a few musicals with digital desks, which is great because you can programme scenes enabling channels too be muted, attenuated, or reinforced as per a solo - however even then you're always working hard to mix the show.

So there's no avoiding it you'll be busy mixing, muting mics when offstage (unless you want toilet flushes and expletives). By all means use some subtle compression if it helps, but don't feel bound to it.

Best advice is to really get to know the show so it's second nature to you.

Down side is that it can takes months to get the tunes out of your head!

Bob

[awjoe]

Best advice is to really get to know the show so it's second nature to you.

Down side is that it can takes months to get the tunes out of your head!

Bob

I guess in a way that's what they're paying you for. Not to get the tunes out of your head, but to make the show second nature, so that faders are easier. How much time it takes you to get there really factors in to whether it was worth it to you to have your head host those tunes for that long. I mean, even if you're Roger Nichols doing something as good as a Steely Dan show, your brain cells are still getting steeped in that stuff. It's a question I've always wanted to ask audio engineers. How do you deal with that?

[Bob Bickerton]

I've been fortunate in that most of the work I've done over the years has been festivals and concerts, so one off shows for the most part. The few tours I've done (as an audio engineer) haven't been prolonged enough for the ear-worms to dig too deep, and I've very much enjoyed the music which really helps.

But musicals are a different story. Again not too long a season two weeks plus a week of (tech/dress) rehearsals, but even then I found it really hard to get the Les Mis tunes out of my head. I countered them by listening to alternative music - a sonic flush if you will.

Oddly enough, several months after being 'cured', someone was walking down our valley whistling a tune from Les Mis - and the ear-worm awoke and everything came rushing back!

Bob

[Mike Stranks]

I guess it's to do with the environment/time/circumstances in which I come from - 50+years, mainly amateur, non-paid, limited access to any sort of outboard (or inboard!) - but I've always been a hands/fingers constantly moving kind of mixer. It's only in latter years that I've used any sort of compression on voice and, even then, with the lightest of touches on 'problem' singers/speakers.

As one would expect, Bob is spot on the money.

[Luke W]

It needs to be said that compression can also be your enemy as well as your friend with a pile of open headset mics on stage - feedback is just stage left waiting to enter.

This is a good point, and if you do end up using some it's where being sensible with settings will be a huge help.

I've been fortunate to have done a few musicals with digital desks, which is great because you can programme scenes enabling channels too be muted, attenuated, or reinforced as per a solo - however even then you're always working hard to mix the show.

I'll admit, I'm a little spoiled here and I've only ever done one MT show on an analogue desk, and it wasn't an experience that I'm in a rush to repeat! Although the material has a huge part to play here, less busy numbers are far easier to manage than those with lines coming from here there and everywhere in quick succession.

So there's no avoiding it you'll be busy mixing, muting mics when offstage (unless you want toilet flushes and expletives). By all means use some subtle compression if it helps, but don't feel bound to it.

Absolutely, and even when people are on stage you'll want to be taking out mics whilst they're not singing or delivering lines. Even with a fairly modest channel count you can end up with a phasey mess pretty quickly. And lots of puffing and panting from people getting their breath back

Down side is that it can takes months to get the tunes out of your head!

And there it is, the biggest problem of them all.

[SteveKD]

Thanks for all the comments so far, any other hints and tips appreciated.
I've done a few musicals now, but always with my own equipment. For this one I'll be using what already happens to be there. Luckily (for me) its an analogue desk, I don't think I'd have time to learn a digital one.

For all the past shows I've done I've always worked from a copy of the vocal score with mic numbers written in and warnings of when a level might need to be higher/lower than usual for a certain phrase.

What are peoples thoughts on reverb/delay? Would it be odd if some characters have more or less reverb than others?

[Dave Rowles]

What desk is it? Just curious, as if you've to access to groups you might be able to use the compressors you have as buss compressors which might help you greatly. You'll still need to fader ride at bit, but it'll give you a fall back.

[Bob Bickerton]

What are peoples thoughts on reverb/delay? Would it be odd if some characters have more or less reverb than others?

Reverb - Somewhat room and show dependent. If it's a dry room, then yes you may wish to place the voices into a more generous space, but I'd be very careful. It could enhance sung parts, but you probably wouldn't want it on dialogue, which means an extra layer of muting to contend with.

If used on sung parts, then I'd use the same level on all voices as the purpose is to try to 'improve' the acoustic of the room. But as I said, it's also very much show dependent and to do with how much you want to 'produce' a particular song.

Delay - I wouldn't touch it unless is specifically noted in the score or prescribed by the director.

Bob

[Mike Monte]

For all the past shows I've done I've always worked from a copy of the vocal score with mic numbers written in and warnings of when a level might need to be higher/lower than usual for a certain phrase.

For the local high school shows that I have done lav mics I have made a list of the scenes (check with the lighting guy/gal for scene info) on which I note the channel numbers that need to be un-muted for that scene.
I will also tweak each scene a bit as some actors start their lines off-stage as they are entering.

It is funny that you mentioned working from a vocal score - I am doing a show in two weeks at a local prep school. (I have done this school's show for the past 20+ years - with the first ten years as a musician in the pit and thereafter as a musician mixing the music end of the production.) On this show I sit at FOH with the main job to "mic the pit musicians" (which is in another room of the building) and provide the mix in the monitors (for the cast) and also the house. I read the conductor's score as the show is going on and mix/balance the pit with the actors/actresses.

I also advise the guy who is doing the stage mics/lavs on balancing the harmony on the two/three/four part choral numbers as the melody is not always in the highest voice part.

[Dave Rowles]

In the small number of productions I've done, I always get a copy of the script and mark up the script. Then it's a case of following the script just like I would sheet music. I also label the mics by part, though that supposes that there isn't a lot of mic swapping going on.

I tend to not do musicals/theatre for that reason as I find following the script tedious and boring after the first 2/3 performances. It's just a numbers game!

[James Perrett]

I haven't done any musical theatre for many years but, on the few shows that I did, my life would have been made far easier with mute automation as most of the work was muting and unmuting mics at the appropriate time.

[Bob Bickerton]

This is where digital really comes into its own. Rather than a hard mute, I used to programme faders to zero with two benefits; Firstly, a hard mute can sometimes be noticeable relative to a quick fade, and secondly it's much easier to see which channels are live!

I'm very pleased I no longer do live sound!

Bob

[Sam Spoons]

I mixed my only musical on an analogue desk so didn't have the option to do funky stuff like that, it was physical mutes (no mute groups) and faders... I vowed that if I ever did another I'd use a digital desk... That said I'm thankful in many ways that another hasn't come along, it was the most stressful gig of my (fairly undistinguished) career.