Keyboard Mixer

[nickle15]

I currently have 10 synths in my studio. Two are mono (Grandmother and Microfreak) and the other eight have stereo connections. I've got another two keyboards being repaired that will be added to the mix.

I have a total of three small mixers working in tandem to provide all the signals to my Focusrite 18i8 which then feeds into my Mac.

I would like a mixer or any other suitable hardware to run all of these keyboards into so that I don't have to plug and unplug. At this point I think getting something like a 32 channel mixer (to cover future expansion) that would then run into my USB interface is my best bet but I would be interested to know how other folks handle this scenario, or if anyone else works this way. Thanks for your time.

[The Elf]

Not cheap, but I use a pair of Ferrofish A32 into an RME MADIFace XT. That gives me 64 line/keyboard inputs (and outputs) all under control of TotalMix. It is a sublimely elegant and reliable system - I run it all day, every day.

Half of the above would set you up nicely, with room to grow.

No need for a hardware 'mixer' these days - and a neater, cleaner system without one, IMHO.

[Arpangel]

I’ve been in this dilemma for years, space restrictions have been a big factor.
Running separate mixers is always a compromise, you’re better off just biting the bullet, and getting the biggest mixer you can afford, there are plenty out there, secondhand older mixers are your best bet, Soundcraft or Allen and Heath, or something like a Midas Venice.
I’ve got an A&H MixWiz, but it’s not big enough, thier desks sound great, and have loads of effects sends, I just bleed to get a bigger one!
There’s always the digital option, but honestly, for this type of application, having everything there, in front of you, is more appropriate than the the storage and recall options of a digital desk, just more immediate, for a musical keyboard type application.

[fatbenelton]

patchbay is an obvious answer but that assumes you don’t want to listen to all 10 synths at the same time! A cheap and cheerful line mixer would be the Samson SM10 or similar.

As you’re on a Mac you could look at something like a Presonus Quantum 4848 with 32 line level input and outputs (64 I/O in 1U). Everything would need to be done in the DAW though as there is no on board mixer. However, latency is so low that you can use Logic’s mixer (or whatever DAW) as a real mixer including real time effects with no noticeable lag.

[nickle15]

Thanks guys - this is a lot of useful information! It confirms much of what I was thinking and adds some new angles to consider. As always, I appreciate the help.

[N i g e l]

...I would like a mixer or any other suitable hardware to run all of these keyboards into so that I don't have to plug and unplug. ...

whats your budget ?

The older desk-mixers are good value used but tend to have few stereo inputs which eats up the mono channels.

I use a [vertically mounted] Yamaha MG not for mixing but as a synths volume control. The group busses are handy for separating tracks into backing & what you really want to concentrate on.

ebay tip : use the postcode search, often bulky mixers are pickup only and dont get many bids.

[t-sun]

I've been planning a move, including my hardware studio setup with a huge number of sources, for a few months. I've always gone used for mixers, though, and I prefer hardware to software interfaces. I've been expecting to use a set of 3 patchbays and my trusty old Alesis Studio 32 analog mixer (16 ins with outputs to any recording interface you want, with 4 effects busses) but have been eyeing some of the older digital mixers such as the Yamaha O2R, Behringer DDX3216, and Panasonic RAMSA WR-DA7, because they have lightpipe options which would allow direct 16-input recording with a full physical interface. Automation and settings memory are a nice bonus.

[ef37a]

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/behringer-rx1602

Just reading that magazine today and that mixer is still available.
Get two and you could have 30 channels.

Dave.

[Eddy Deegan]

I currently have 10 synths in my studio. Two are mono (Grandmother and Microfreak) and the other eight have stereo connections. I've got another two keyboards being repaired that will be added to the mix.

I have a total of three small mixers working in tandem to provide all the signals to my Focusrite 18i8 which then feeds into my Mac.

I would like a mixer or any other suitable hardware to run all of these keyboards into so that I don't have to plug and unplug. At this point I think getting something like a 32 channel mixer (to cover future expansion) that would then run into my USB interface is my best bet but I would be interested to know how other folks handle this scenario, or if anyone else works this way. Thanks for your time.

In part due to my aversion for selling gear I have 25+ synths, one or two mono but mostly stereo & some with 4 or 6 outputs. Also some electric guitars, a bass guitar, electronic drums, a modular system with various outputs and a handful of microphones. I was asking myself the same questions as you are. I have an A&H 16-channel digital desk I was using in conjunction with an analogue rackmount mixer to provide a stereo sub-mix to two of the channels on the digital desk but it's far from perfect. I also have a subjective dislike for patchbays and avoid them where possible although they work brilliantly for some people.

A few months ago I seriously considered Elf's solution (it's a proper good one!) but I ended up deciding that 24-bit 44.1kHz was more than good enough for me and I got a Presonus StudioLive 32R which I'm using in 'interface' mode.

The benefit for me is that all the analogue inputs are in one rackmount device, it can shove 32 channels of 24-bit audio up to 48kHz into my DAW over USB and is expandable going forwards insofar as it can be used as a stagebox to provide additional inputs to a StudioLive desk.

That latter feature does mean opting into the Presonus StudioLive ecosystem, which I've found slightly difficult to navigate on occasion, but in my case it's a good balance between price and flexibility and seems worth the effort. Much as a mixing desk is less likely to be required these days I have a fondness for faders and am planning to add a StudioLive 64S to my studio in coming months to which I can connect the 32R via an ethernet cable, resulting in 96 inputs. I could potentially already use about 76 of them with my existing kit thus the future-expansion aspect is attractive to me.

If you can live with the 48kHz ceiling it might be worth considering. The 32R offers very good bang for the buck as a high-number-of-inputs interface.

[DGL.]

If up to 38 inputs is enough (19 stereo) then an X32 will do it, though one of the smaller models will need a stage box to get the extra 16 channels, or a Wing with stageboxes will get you 48 channels, all of them stereo.

[Arpangel]

The Yamaha MG20XU would do it, and it’s rack mounting, 8 stereo, and 8 mono inputs, I was considering one of these, but even though it has 4 sends, it has no returns, that was a deal breaker for me, but it depends on how many FX you might want to use, the MG20 does have rather useful on-board FX though.

[adamburgess]

I've got an X32 rack at home doing mainly keys. Got a few mic ins ready to go, but hardly ever use them. So, I've got 16 + 6 analogue ins.

Channels 17-32 inputs are USB returns from the Mac.

I do have a patchbay, too, incase anything else needs to go in!

[The Korff]

If you've got a big budget but limited space, this is the one:

https://www.soundonsound.com/news/speck-revive-xtramix

If space isn't a factor but money is, then a big old console from the 80s or 90s is a good bet 9though get one that's in good condition!). You can get old 24/32-channel Soundcrafts, Allen & Heaths etc for peanuts nowadays, and if you dig around you might even be able to find something a bit more upmarket.

[The Elf]

A few months ago I seriously considered Elf's solution (it's a proper good one!) but I ended up deciding that 24-bit 44.1kHz was more than good enough for me and I got a Presonus StudioLive 32R which I'm using in 'interface' mode.

That's a similar solution to mine - and a neat one at that. Same channel-per-rack-space count, too at 32 inputs in 2u. I've got 64 inputs in 3u (all my effects and processors just a fader-shift, or a patch cable away). The advantage of that 32R is in not having need for a separate patchbay.

The reason I went the way I did was primarily TotalMix - I'm devoted to that thing, as it makes my life soooo much easier than it was back in the days of hardware mixers. And every input separately recordable - huge deal in my book.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Ditch the Focusrite and get an RME Digiface USB which will accept the ADAT outputs from a trio of Behringer ADA8200s. 24 inputs, all individually recordable, with Total mix for monitoring and fx sends.

The ADAs are adequate for most synth applications, but can be replaced with higher quality preamp/converters if needed.

[nickle15]

Thanks all! I think a large analog board might fit the bill so I'll keep an eye out for a used one (for affordability). It's not nearly as much fun as some of the suggestions here but I think it's my best option at the moment. I appreciate everyone taking the time to chip in!

[ef37a]

Thanks all! I think a large analog board might fit the bill so I'll keep an eye out for a used one (for affordability). It's not nearly as much fun as some of the suggestions here but I think it's my best option at the moment. I appreciate everyone taking the time to chip in!

Hmm, A mixer is a very complex collection of pots,switches, op amps and power circuits* and although I might chance a used one, I can fix one. If you can't or don't have a tame (cheap!) mixer tech on hand I would seek one of the other solutions.

Even if you CAN repair electronic gear it is time out of music work.

*From years infesting forums, power supplies, either internal or external seem a big botheration with mixers?

Dave.

[t-sun]

Ditch the Focusrite and get an RME Digiface USB which will accept the ADAT outputs from a trio of Behringer ADA8200s. 24 inputs, all individually recordable, with Total mix for monitoring and fx sends.

The ADAs are adequate for most synth applications, but can be replaced with higher quality preamp/converters if needed.

Yes, I foresee an RME Digiface USB in my future based on my own needs and setup (I am running my 16 channels into two actual ADAT machines ). How has your experience with it been?

[nickle15]

Thanks all! I think a large analog board might fit the bill so I'll keep an eye out for a used one (for affordability). It's not nearly as much fun as some of the suggestions here but I think it's my best option at the moment. I appreciate everyone taking the time to chip in!

Hmm, A mixer is a very complex collection of pots,switches, op amps and power circuits* and although I might chance a used one, I can fix one. If you can't or don't have a tame (cheap!) mixer tech on hand I would seek one of the other solutions.

Even if you CAN repair electronic gear it is time out of music work.

*From years infesting forums, power supplies, either internal or external seem a big botheration with mixers?

Dave.

Thanks for the input Dave. Excellent food for thought! I'm in the lucky position of my dad being an electrical engineer and we've begun a small side hustle of synth repairs. You are correct though, it's time away from production so that's a definite consideration for me. Thanks again!

[ef37a]

You are welcome Nickle. I am firmly in the 'K.I.S.Sir' camp!

You asked for a budget solution and two of those Behringer mixers delivers. The review Paul White gave shows them to be more than good enough in terms of noise and headroom "for a few synths"! The only thing I can see holding you back is if there is an operational function missing from that setup?

Dave.

[nickle15]

You are welcome Nickle. I am firmly in the 'K.I.S.Sir' camp!

You asked for a budget solution and two of those Behringer mixers delivers. The review Paul White gave shows them to be more than good enough in terms of noise and headroom "for a few synths"! The only thing I can see holding you back is if there is an operational function missing from that setup?

Dave.

Thanks Dave. Honestly I'm just a hobby guy without extensive mixer knowledge. I am looking for a "funnel" to pour all the keyboards into with one outlet to dump into the USB interface. So from what I can tell the Behringer solution is a good one.

That being said, I'm sure I would get into such an arrangement only to learn something new a week later and think "Hm. I should have thought about this when developing my mixer solution". That's the way it usually goes for me!

[James Perrett]

Ditch the Focusrite and get an RME Digiface USB which will accept the ADAT outputs from a trio of Behringer ADA8200s. 24 inputs, all individually recordable, with Total mix for monitoring and fx sends.

No need to ditch the Focusrite Hugh. Just use it in standalone mode with the Digiface USB and two ADA8200s.

I've had a Digiface USB for just over a year and it has been rock solid in that time. The drivers are noticeably better than the ones with my Zoom interface. I've not really explored Totalmix though

Someone also mentioned old ADAT machines - if you can pick up one where the mechanics have failed but the electronics are still working then they make useful analogue to digital or digital to analogue convertors. It is probably best to go for a newer model if possible as the original Blackface ADATs didn't have a great reputation for sound quality. They also take up quite a bit of rack space compared to ADA8200s or similar.

[Hugh Robjohns]

No need to ditch the Focusrite Hugh. Just use it in standalone mode with the Digiface USB and two ADA8200s.

Good point! Saves more money and adds versatility!

[ef37a]

Am I missing something here? Nickle's original question was about a means of combining the line outputs of 12 (so far!) synths, most of them stereo into a Focusrite interface, as I understand it, as a stereo pair.

Now, since you can't play 12 synths at once (well, MAYBE with MIDI but it would sound mad&bad I guess?) what is NOT needed is to have 20+ discrete tracks recordable into the DAW?

So, two 8 way stereo line mixers gives 32 channels -2. Or one mix could go to F'rite 1&2 say and the other F'rite 3&4. Job's a good'un AFAICS?

Dave.

[The Elf]

Now, since you can't play 12 synths at once (well, MAYBE with MIDI but it would sound mad&bad I guess?) what is NOT needed is to have 20+ discrete tracks recordable into the DAW?

So, two 8 way stereo line mixers gives 32 channels -2. Or one mix could go to F'rite 1&2 say and the other F'rite 3&4. Job's a good'un AFAICS?

I disagree. When I'm building an arrangement in MIDI (synths, drum machines and all) I want to be able to hear all my synths as I work, and then when it's sounding as I want it I can render all those synths to audio tracks in a single pass.

And, as I've described above, the system I have gives me that facility almost as an afterthought - a mixer AND discrete recording of every channel, and no re-patching required. Now I can refine each audio track as needed.

No way would I be wanting all my synths sub-mixed and then have to muck around recording each in separate passes.

Other system ideas above give much the same facilities.

Not life or death, but definitely nice to have.