Gigging with hardware or software?

[jartang]

I’m currently in a cover band and run everything through Ableton on my laptop, and then to the amp. I have a CGP-700 as my main board and an Akai mini mkII as my board for sound fx and switching presets. I also run a cable direct to my keyboard for grand piano, as while it’s fairly limited on features it has a decent piano sound. I’m trying to decide whether or not to upgrade my main board to a nord stage 2 or maybe 3, but struggling to find a good reason to considering I can get all the sounds I need from what I currently have.

While it would be really cool to own a nord stage 3, I’m finding it hard to justify spending $3,700 on something that will only have a few benefits to my actual sound. The only functionality increase will be a better quality organ, EP, and Grand Piano. The other upside is it would be easier to switch between presets, and a lot more reliable than the software if something were to go wrong. While these are nice, it just doesn’t seem worth the money.

I guess I’m asking for a different perspective or past experiences on the topic.

I’m also curious as to thoughts on software vs hardware overall, in the future will everything be run through software or is hardware still going to be relevant?

Apologies in advance if this is not the right place to post this question.

[The Elf]

Welcome!

It doesn't matter which you choose as long as it works for you. Personally I use everything from completely software to an 8-keyboard rig, depending on the needs of the event. There's no need to commit to one extreme or the other, as long as you plan your system.

That said I do always have a laptop at the centre of the system, running Cantabile and controlling the show for me. Without that I simply wouldn't have enough limbs, brainpower and time to keep everything in step. Cantabile makes it very easy to up/down-size my rig as I choose.

Some players get worried about the reliability of using a laptop on stage. I worry about the reliability of keyboards on stage. If my laptop fails I have a backup waiting in the wings. If my Kronos failed (I've got rid of it now) I had no replacement. To that end, if any of my hardware now fails I have prepared a software backup to get me through - maybe not the perfect solution, but a solution nonetheless.

So I suppose what I would suggest is a hybrid approach. But plan it carefully.

I've recently been experimenting with AUM on iPad. Although it's a bit fiddly to set up I can see it may be the future, and is worth taking a look.

[ajay_m]

I recall Level 42 starting their set 45 mins late after laptop problems at Rock The Moor. Thing is, computer based setups are great until something goes wrong.

Windows decides to do an update. Minutes before you kick off, or, maybe, the night before but, Microsoft's QA being a bit hit and miss these days, introduces a regression that nukes something critical. Not that long ago an update caused catastrophic data loss for some users.

The AV software (and Defender is built in so takes some effort to disable) suddenly decides to scan everything.

Or, and this is the killer, you plug USB devices in but to a different port than usual. For some reason this can totally flummox either windows or whatever daw etc you're running on it. I just spent an hour untangling this with Reaper after plugging my second qunexus keyboard in and unplugging the other one. Things got totally bolloxed.

If you have two identical laptops that would be reassuring. Apple Macs might be better, though I think the level 42 disaster revolved around a Mac.

Computers are insanely complex general purpose devices that, yes, can work very well in live performance. Until they don't. And that's where having a failover mechanism in place is vital. That said, two laptops are relatively cheap compared to some of the dedicated alternatives.

[adamburgess]

Having recently gone to an all laptop rig, it's been really reliable for maybe 40 gigs!

Bought a couple of Arturia Keylab mkIIs. They don't feel quite as nice as a Kronos 61 and 88, but a hell of a lot cheaper. And the MacBook Air wasn't that bad, either.

The built-in Logic organ isn't bad at all and I use it more than the IK BX3 that I bought. The Arturia Piano V2, Analog Lab etc which came with the keyboards work just fine for cover stuff. Use some Roland Cloud patches which is almost like carrying my Integra.

I don't use particularly heavy CPU effects on the laptop, either. My reverbs etc. are coming from the XR18 I use as an interface.

And plug-ins really are quite cheap compared to (until recently locked down) stuff on the Kronos.

If ya like the feel of your current keys, and it works - it really is customisable and you can just buy the sounds you need. I have no need for electric guitars and space flutes, so I don't include them. It's quite streamlined.

I did soak test it for a week before I took it out. Plugging things in in random orders, invoking unexpected power cuts, randomly trying different USB cables from the cable box, leaving it turned on for days, booting with keyboards off and on etc.
playing some heavy-pedalled piano stuff with 5x YouTube videos playing in the background - that sort of thing!

I'd say embrace the soft synth thing!

[The Elf]

I recall Level 42 starting their set 45 mins late after laptop problems at Rock The Moor.

It sounds likely that they didn't have a backup, then. That's unforgivable for a professional.

If my stage laptop failed I would be back in business in 5 minutes tops. I know some acts that keep two parallel systems running all the time, with automatic, seamless switch-over systems, but I don't find the need for that in my world.

It's all about planning. If your laptop decides to do an update just before a gig then that's a failing on the part of the owner - not the technology. Who would have their system online just before a gig?

[Tomás Mulcahy]

I recall Level 42 starting their set 45 mins late after laptop problems at Rock The Moor.

It sounds likely that they didn't have a backup, then. That's unforgivable for a professional.

If my stage laptop failed I would be back in business in 5 minutes tops. I know some acts that keep two parallel systems running all the time, with automatic, seamless switch-over systems, but I don't find the need for that in my world.

It's all about planning. If your laptop decides to do an update just before a gig then that's a failing on the part of the owner - not the technology. Who would have their system online just before a gig?

Agreed. A backup computer is easy to implement. Methinks they made an excuse for someone's tantrum

FWIW I would not gig with any of my hardware synths. One laptop, plus an older one with a cloned drive just in case. Apple Mainstage worked really well for my needs. Ableton is designed to be used live.

[adamburgess]

Yes, I do have a Mac mini (base model) as a backup, or an iPad with about 5 sounds on it!

But doing the sums quickly, a couple of (also base model!) MacBook Airs, and a controller is still about the same as a Kronos - which for me wasn't infallible - and I've had three of them over the years.

One Kronos is still in bits in a cupboard cannibalised for it's keybed and a couple of bits. Keep meaning to build it into a 4U rack. But currently restoring a 1999 Triton for something to do in no-gig Ramadan time.

[BJG145]

I still feel drawn to hardware...but software offers a lot more bang for the buck, so I'm planning my next solo foray with a laptop. (Just picked up an NI Komplete Audio 2 for this purpose; arrived this morning. Bargain at £30 on FB Marketplace.)

[The Elf]

Wow! That truly is a bargain!

If you're going Windows, then seriously consider Cantabile. It takes all the pain out of gigging with software, though it does take a while to get your head around it.

[resistorman]

I've recently been experimenting with AUM on iPad. Although it's a bit fiddly to set up I can see it may be the future, and is worth taking a look.

I've used AUM for live gigs and it's fantastic. The programming is top notch and the system is very flexible.

[The Elf]

I've recently been experimenting with AUM on iPad. Although it's a bit fiddly to set up I can see it may be the future, and is worth taking a look.

I've used AUM for live gigs and it's fantastic. The programming is top notch and the system is very flexible.

It's not bad at all, but it is fairly basic. For my simple 'one man and a Mellotron' improvs I think I could make it work, but beyond that I would need far more features and flexibility to handle a full band gig.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

But doing the sums quickly, a couple of (also base model!) MacBook Airs, and a controller is still about the same as a Kronos - which for me wasn't infallible - and I've had three of them over the years.

What's your logic here? The Macs would be very reliable. What exactly are your processing needs? A current MacBook Air can do vastly more than a Kronos.

[Arpangel]

But doing the sums quickly, a couple of (also base model!) MacBook Airs, and a controller is still about the same as a Kronos - which for me wasn't infallible - and I've had three of them over the years.

What's your logic here? The Macs would be very reliable. What exactly are your processing needs? A current MacBook Air can do vastly more than a Kronos.

It has to be the computer for me, I can’t see any real valid reason not to go down that route, I have a MacBook Air minimum spec, and it runs all of my synths, plus a DAW, I have a small two channel interface, and I take whatever keyboard I need, from an Arturia Keystep, to an 88.
A compromise is often a lightweight 61, and apart from the keyboard, this all fits into a laptop bag, am I really going to want to lift lots of big heavy keyboards around after this, absolutely not, I don’t care about "minor" sonic differences if there are any, it’s just not important when I’m playing live, reliability? I’ve not had any issues, yet, but if it’s a concern, I'll stick another computer in the bag, it will only take up a quarter of an inch of extra space.

[adamburgess]

But doing the sums quickly, a couple of (also base model!) MacBook Airs, and a controller is still about the same as a Kronos - which for me wasn't infallible - and I've had three of them over the years.

What's your logic here? The Macs would be very reliable. What exactly are your processing needs? A current MacBook Air can do vastly more than a Kronos.

I do use a base MacBook Air and have a Mac mini as a spare if anything goes drastically wrong. I've had three Kronosesseses and gave them up for the laptop route.

[Arpangel]

I love hardware, as you know, but for gigs, jams, the MacBook wins hands down, my obsession with sonic purity, originality, goes out the window faster as I get older, besides, I can’t think of anyone, me included, that would be unhappy with most of the Arturia stuff, Reaktor, and Reason, I don’t even scratch the surface of those things, studio, live, or jamming.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

I do use a base MacBook Air and have a Mac mini as a spare if anything goes drastically wrong. I've had three Kronosesseses and gave them up for the laptop route.

Oh OK. You've all put me off the Kronos now . I quite liked it (in the shop) lovely action on the weighted one.

[adamburgess]

Oh OK. You've all put me off the Kronos now . I quite liked it (in the shop) lovely action on the weighted one.

The Kronos is a fine instrument, for sure. I had the 61 when they first arrived. The BEST semi-weighted keyboard I've ever played - without question. And, there's a sound 'near enough' for anything, really.

Overheating here in the desert was a problem, and the file system (which I thought I was used to coming from Tritons etc.) was a pain for samples and stuff.

Sold that to try the laptop thing! Wished I didn't. Cause it does loads of stuff!

So got a 73 (88 will just not fit in a Dubai taxi ) - and did the same again!

So got a 73 - which is now in circuit board form without a keyboard. Rebuilt a REALLY heavy-handed friend of mine's Kronos with some parts. I do have plans to stick the bits in a 4U rack. It certainly has it's place still in my rig, but I've totally embraced the laptop now.

But, now, looks like it's discontinued after 9 yrs, or thereabouts! And, Korg did open up transfer of licenses to any upgraded machines.

[The Elf]

I had a Kronos for a few years. I grew to absolutely loathe it.

Editing and saving patches on them is a nightmare. I once needed to remove vibrato from a patch and had to edit five pages to achieve it. The way you cannot save certain patches to certain banks, once another patch is stored in there... ridiculous. Transporting patches from one Kronos to another - forget it.

I never want to see another Kronos. Inside they are literally an old PC - complete with printer port. I can do better with a cheap laptop nowadays.

But I agree on the 61's keyboard - lovely action and very nice aftertouch.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

How does it compare to an Alesis Fusion HD? I loved the action on those and the synth engine was intriguing.

[ManFromGlass]

I have done a few gigs with the ipad using a multi-looper to record and manipulate live sound in realtime while playing backing tracks. The crazy thing was everything was battery powered - ipad and small mixer with 2 mics in and PA. Worked great.
Played with Aum a lot but never gigged with it. Haven’t made Aum crash yet, but I have never really loaded it up to any crazy degree.

[MarkOne]

I'm another laptop convert. I love MainStage, and I've found it very stable and as others have said even the stock Apple classic tone wheel plugin is actually brilliant for a live situation (I actually like the mellotron too). With the Arturia Keylab sounds and NI Kontakt factory library, I can't say there is anything sound wise I'd struggle to do in a cover band situation.

The Fantom G7 which used to be the heart of my live rig is sitting in it's flight case and hasn't been used for anything other than a controller for years. It will probably find it's way to eBay soon.