The All-New Behringer Keyboards 'n' Stuff Thread

[YashN]

Testing and actual release after mass production are two very distinct things.

[DGL.]

Mass production is the big issue here, can't do Behringer scale mass production withoutthe semiconductors to go in them!

[DGL.]

Some minor updates, they've changed the render of the OB-X following comments and one question that was asked is will the keybed be the same as the one in the deepmind, Behringer replied "We have different plans ;D "

[DGL.]

Something new* Behringer are testing, the RS-9, a RD-9 as a eurorack module. Targeting $149!

Ready for testing. We just fired up our new RS-9 Drum Sequencer prototype.
This is the RD-9 drum machine ported to a drum sequencer for Eurorack. 10 individual outputs and full USB/MIDI control, allow you to trigger any external drum module.

We still need more time to finalize and test the module to ensure it’s ready for mass production.
We target a retail price of US$ 149.
What do you think?

[DGL.]

Update on the DS-80, prototype voice board is now finished, though they are still way off completion. Board had two voices and an ARM processor to control it, plus some pots and switches so it can be used on it's own for testing purposes, naturally the voice boards that end up in the DS-80 won't have these controls. An 8 voice would naturally need 8 of said boards so it shows the complexitiy.

[DGL.]

And similar to yesterdays DS-80 update they have created a similar "bread board" of a Polykobol voice. These are all specualtive as they don;t know if they will have sucess in the cloning process as these synths are very complex but they will at least try. Given the Polykobol is even rarer than the GX-1 with only 40 said to have been made a recreation would be brilliant, and the render does look nice. Noting that they do have access to a Polykobol for testing/analysis purposes.
Also at the end a a "meet the tribers" post where there is so words from John Price, who is working on things like the DS-80 and previously worked with Robert Neve

Meet our Tribers. Today, we’d like you to meet John Price, who is considered one of the world’s best analog designers. John has over 40 years of industry experience under his belt and worked together with industry legends such as Rupert Neve etc.
John is reading here and perhaps you want to send him some love.

But let’s hear from the man himself.

“From the age of eleven, I really enjoyed listening to music, which developed into an obsession with high quality hi-fi systems. Back then I did not have that much money to spend on equipment, but I was very practical, so I built my own speakers and amps etc.

When I left college, I wanted a job with a hi-fi equipment manufacturer, but did not find anything in my area. So I ended up joining a small pro audio company called Formula Sound, who were located above Strawberry studios in Stockport. During my time there I was assembling graphic equalisers etc. and I also did a little testing.
I learnt a lot there, however the pay was very low, so after a year I looked around and found a job at Amek, who designed and manufactured mixing consoles of various types.
When I started at Amek in 1979 I was assembling PCB’s and wiring large studio consoles. After a while I began testing power supplies and modules, and a little later the main design engineer needed an assistant and I was invited to begin design and development.
I quickly became adept at drawing circuit diagrams and PCB layouts, creating and debugging designs etc., and some years on, I became head of analogue design.
I learnt a huge amount in my 23 years at Amek and in the later years when Rupert Neve was consulting for Amek, I worked with him for a few years developing the 9098 mixing consoles etc. Amek was then purchased by Harman which lead to it closing so it was time for a new job.
In 2003, I was invited to join Midas/Klark Teknik working on the analogue I/O for the digital console XL8 and various analogue consoles plus signal processors.
After a few years, the company was acquired by Music Tribe, and I continued to work on Midas/Klark Teknik products, as well as many Behringer analogue signal processers.
Later I was invited to work on analogue synthesisers such as the System 55, System 100, 2500 series Eurorack modules and the 2600 synth. This was quite daunting at first, however once I got familiar with the concepts, I found them very fascinating as they contain some of the most challenging and complex analogue circuits you will find. But I always like challenges as they keep things interesting.

Currently I am working on the Bode frequency shifter 1630 as seen in the photo and we now have a fully working prototype. MS-5 is currently being beta tested, VCS3 is coming along well and I’m just about to start work on our DS-80 voice board prototype testing and many more exciting new products to come.
Working on these vintage recreations gives me huge respect for the original creators and incredible joy to help let the legacies of these synths live on. I’d like to thank you all for the appreciation of our work.” - John

[DGL.]

And a video to come soon on the 2-XM, Two voice clone, looking good to me from the latest picture.

[Arpangel]

It's very easy to announce things, when you know they can’t be produced, or delivered, chip shortage, logistics etc.
Not saying that’s the reason here, but there does seem to be a lot of teasers coming out.

[DGL.]

It's very easy to announce things, when you know they can’t be produced, or delivered, chip shortage, logistics etc.
Not saying that’s the reason here, but there does seem to be a lot of teasers coming out.

Though they are targeting release in a few months for the 2-XM, probably helps that it's a fair bit simpler than a polysynth, esp. one with less chips.

[Arpangel]

It's very easy to announce things, when you know they can’t be produced, or delivered, chip shortage, logistics etc.
Not saying that’s the reason here, but there does seem to be a lot of teasers coming out.

Though they are targeting release in a few months for the 2-XM, probably helps that it's a fair bit simpler than a polysynth, esp. one with less chips.

Any idea how the VCS3 is getting on?

[DGL.]

It's very easy to announce things, when you know they can’t be produced, or delivered, chip shortage, logistics etc.
Not saying that’s the reason here, but there does seem to be a lot of teasers coming out.

Though they are targeting release in a few months for the 2-XM, probably helps that it's a fair bit simpler than a polysynth, esp. one with less chips.

Any idea how the VCS3 is getting on?

Nope, John Price is one of the engineers working in it going by the "meet the tribers" post from him on their FB.

As for the UB-X some info on the bloke who is helping create the UB-X, has previously created his own four voice UB-X so has history there.

Scott “Old Crow” Ryder joins the UB-X synthesizer development team.
We’re extremely proud to have gained another analog synthesizer icon to join our ever-growing synth engineering team. Scott has decades of analog synthesizer experience under his belt and built his own OB-X, CS-80 and many more. Check out his website http://www.cs80.com/.
Scott is reading here, and you may want to send him some love:-)
But let’s listen to his fascinating story:
“As a child of mid ‘60s, the years of my youth went through that strange 5-year gap where electronics hobbyists transitioned from shortwave radio to homebrew computing. Living in that interesting time made me somewhat of a hybrid understudy of both analog and digital electronics. I was already being trained in piano but seeing performances like Virgil Fox’s masterful electronic organ recital and later Michael Iceberg’s “Iceberg Machine” one-man synth band performances at Disney World when he was set up in the Tomorrowland Terrace had me going: “That! I want to do that!”
“That” of course would be me surrounded by these sleek electronic music synthesizers and playing those languid, spacey notes like the soundtrack to some not-yet-made sci-fi films. Of course, when a single polyphonic synthesizer in 1980 cost the same as my car, that dream would have to wait a few years as I went through engineering school. My father had the good grace to purchase a Paia P-4700j synthesizer kit that began a long friendship with Paia’s founder John Simonton. I probably learned more about analog and digital musical electronics putting that all together from Feb. to May 1980 than any other instance of my schooling. Sadly John is no longer with us, but he put my refurbished P-4700j in his Paia “Hall of Fame.” https://paia.com/hallofam/oldcrow/
1983 is when the machine that would herald the (temporary) end of analog synthesizers as we knew them happened - the Yamaha DX7. I had already managed to buy a Korg Polysix at the closeout price of US$800 in 1984 but getting the US$2k needed for a DX7 meant taking out a loan and hoping the part-time work I did at a local electronics shop would cover it. Somehow, I managed and had this nice pairing of the DX7 with the Polysix except one had MIDI and one did not.
Not yet, I should say. In the fall of 1985, I built a MIDI retrofit for the Polysix. MIDI was new then and figuring out the nature of such a circuit was interesting. I decided to simply install a keyboard switch matrix in parallel to the key bed and that way the keys and the MIDI would work together without any issues. I used a Zilog Z8 microcontroller as it was what we used at the electronics shop. That shop, Temp Inc., was a real boon to my early engineering years as I could tape out a board and etch it in their board shop. This was just before I started using PCB CAD in 1988: tape out was just that: black tape on vellum that was photographed in a UV light box to create the artwork negative. Of course, the boards weren’t plated through, silk-screened or solder masked, but they were circuit boards and they did just fine. In the below image a hand-etched board can be seen, with 121 wires creating the keyboard matrix that the incoming MIDI messages would operate. It worked just fine with the DX7.
Of course, as a piano player I missed that weighted key action and now with a full-time job at Temp in 1986 I was able to invest in the core of my keyboard setup that comprised a Yamaha KX-88, which I still use to this day, a Yamaha TX816, and one of Bob Yannes’ wonderful Ensoniq Mirage rack units. With the addition of a digital reverb, harmonizer and some effects pedals, I finally had something I could call a synthesizer rig, and made enough music for an album:
https://www.last.fm/music/Scott+Rider/T ... my+of+Time
In the 1990s, older gear started to need servicing. The Polysix battery was notorious for compromising the patch manager circuit and given the number of folks having issues I decided to make an entire new board. I would continue to do this for a number of machines where the original board or board started to fail. The new boards meant all new parts and avoiding frequent failures as old parts individually started failing. This created a new problem: many analog synthesizers of the 70s, 80s and 90s resorted to custom ICs in order to deal with the complexity of the sound engine at a rational level. This is where my favorite engineering pastime was born, I was going to become a “vintage synthesizer archaeologist.” Analog was new again, and the now-vintage market started going up and up. A Minimoog in 1992 one could have for $750, in 2002 it was $3,000. More than ever keeping the old machines running was a worthwhile effort.
In the early 2000s, I managed to purchase my still-favorite analog synthesizer - the Yamaha CS80. I would not be able to afford one today, which is why I spent several years perfecting what I call “discrete equivalent circuits” that replace the Yamaha custom ICs. This was necessary as I had only one CS80 and I wouldn’t likely find another one, hence I had to keep this one alive. A CS80 has 210 custom ICs and 70% of those are VCAs but that is how Yamaha did it in those days. If a modulation routing needed a level control, they provided one. Then they repeated it eight or sixteen times for each route. This is why the instrument has 40 circuit boards, which are exhibited “A” in my book “Why They Built Things the Way They Did, and Why They Will Never Build Them That Way Again”. The CS-80 is a beautiful beast and entirely a product of the era in which it was made.
I made the filter which turned into a 5U module called the MOTM-480. A later revision using Coolaudio V2164s in place of the lamentably obsoleted CA3280 turned out to be even better, I called it the M480 MkII or RR480 in honor of my friend Robert Rich who uses them frequently. I’ve made the VCA, the VCO, the EGs and I had everything ready for the day the CS80 needed them.
It was about this time (2012), I was reviewing other vintage machines I’d like to have, but market pricing drove the ability to buy right out. I’d already wanted an OB-X, simply because it had that deep, glassy booming power that was in a different sonic sphere than Moog or Yamaha. I looked online for prices, which turned out to be $7000 for a broken one. Well eff that, I said, I’ll just make a 4-voice OB-X of my own. No programmable presets even though I could do it, I was mainly after that sound. It took 4 months, but I had my CrowBX, and it is awesome.
I also made a Minimoog for a friend who lost theirs in hurricane Katrina called Crowminus.
I always wanted to build the machines that make these wonderful tones, and I want to build them in such a way they can be afforded by most anyone. That is why I am here now as a part of Music Tribe and Behringer, because their vision matches my vision. I’m very excited that Behringer is designing their CS-80 version called DS-80 and I’ll surely team up with John Price who’s leading that project.
I have now started to work on the new Behringer UB-X, which will greatly benefit from my CrowBX experience. I know the sound, I know the circuits, I will get it done and I absolutely love it.” - Scott “Old Crow” Rider

[Arpangel]

Oh dear, looks I won’t be getting a VCS, my grandchildren might.

[t-sun]

Model-15 demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewlnCSVEjbQ

256 note sequencer with 3 song memory, arpeggiator, digital spring reverb, 48 patch points.

Expected retail $329

I guess the chip shipments are starting to move again.

[resistorman]

It seems to me that Uli Behringer is the Henry Ford of synthesizers in some ways. I would bet owners of expensive handmade cars of that era looked down on Fords cheap ripoff of the upper class only automobile.

[Arpangel]

Model-15 demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewlnCSVEjbQ

256 note sequencer with 3 song memory, arpeggiator, digital spring reverb, 48 patch points.

Expected retail $329

I guess the chip shipments are starting to move again.

It’s a Grandmother.

[t-sun]

Model-15 demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewlnCSVEjbQ

256 note sequencer with 3 song memory, arpeggiator, digital spring reverb, 48 patch points.

Expected retail $329

I guess the chip shipments are starting to move again.

It’s a Grandmother.

[DGL.]

Andertons now have a video on the UB-Xa, 16 Voice, Poly-AT, with split and stack modes. Damn!
Behringer really have gone above and beyond what was required of them from an Xa clone.
According to a reply from Andertons in the vid Behringer are targeting sub $1,500.

https://youtu.be/xUKX5QB_x1g

[Eddy Deegan]

It could be the production of the video itself or perhaps the fact it's a pre-production unit being demo'd but listening on headphones I thought it sounded thin and lifeless, far from the sound of an OB-X8 on other videos and significantly weedier than a real OB-Xa.

Compare the sound of the first few seconds of the Andertons video to the first few seconds of this video of a real OB-Xa for example.

But as I said, maybe that was the video. I'm not in the market for one anyway but if it really does sound that bad then I'd pass even if I was!

[DGL.]

There is a 1:1 video with an original OB-Xa on the way at some point so I wouldn't write off the sound just yet, Behringer are hardly going to release a video comparing it to an original OB-Xa if they don't think it sounds at least somewhat close.
Remember there is not really anything that special in regards to the OB-Xa as it's not like it uses discrete oscillators and filters, plus Coolaudio's chip clones are supposedly one f the most accurate out there, primarily as the havn't tried to make any audio improvements like the new SSI ones.

[Arpangel]

Andertons now have a video on the UB-Xa, 16 Voice, Poly-AT, with split and stack modes. Damn!
Behringer really have gone above and beyond what was required of them from an Xa clone.
According to a reply from Andertons in the vid Behringer are targeting sub $1,500.

https://youtu.be/xUKX5QB_x1g

My god, what a horrible demonstration, the whole thing was cringe making.
I think I’ve probably got a few free things that are capable of those sounds, not that I’d want them.

[t-sun]

It could be the production of the video itself or perhaps the fact it's a pre-production unit being demo'd but listening on headphones I thought it sounded thin and lifeless, far from the sound of an OB-X8 on other videos and significantly weedier than a real OB-Xa.

Compare the sound of the first few seconds of the Andertons video to the first few seconds of this video of a real OB-Xa for example.

But as I said, maybe that was the video. I'm not in the market for one anyway but if it really does sound that bad then I'd pass even if I was!

You and everyone commenting on the video. As is frequently pointed out in the comments, older pre-production demos sounded way better, so unless Behringer made a load of bad decisions there must be something wrong with the recording.

I was struck by how bland and same-y everything sounded, no body at all. Difficult to square the reviewers statements.

[Arpangel]

I was struck by how bland and same-y everything sounded, no body at all. Difficult to square the reviewers statements.

Thanks for straightening me out, you said basically what I wanted to say.
Is it OK if ask just one question?

WHERE IS MY VCS3?

[DGL.]

Something posted on GS via the Audio Fanzine forum which should give is the guarantee that the Xa will sound alright,

I'm going to submit to the team working on the ubxa a demo of my own made with the Ubxa, of which I'm one of the Beta testers.

Because the guy in the demo obviously has phase problems when recording. I have the Ubxa next to the obxa, I can assure you that the sound has been worked very well.

And the Obxa character is very present with settings taking the average of the "smatch" of the 20 vintage Obxa which were used for comparison and settings.

For information, we were asked to calibrate our Obxas according to the procedure in the service manual. After that, we were able to really start checking what was working and what was not. By ear as well as by oscilloscope and spectrogram. Nothing was left to chance.

Finally, know that of the 20 vintage Ob-Xa, none sounded the same anyway. We have taken parameter readings and future Ubxa will be set to the average of the vintage readings.

I hope to be able to release the demo this week. I specify that in addition, there is no blah-blah in my videos, I do not show my face because we don't care about my face, and I do not wear a cap to look cool either. lol

But the grain and the musicality of the obxa are still there when I compare the vintage side. Nothing to do with the demo of the guy above. In addition, the guy releases wouaaaaa, Oh yeahhhh, wonderfullllll on each knob he turns or about the keyboard... It looks like he's discovering life, don't overdo it either, personally, I don't find the keyboard famous but you have to bring it back to the price it will cost, you can't have everything at the price at which they will offer it (don't even ask me in pm, I won't say).

PS my YT channel is "pulsophonic" of course, subscribe, because there will soon be some nice surprises.

>>> The 2 demos made last year by a beta tester showed that the sound was already there.

I can assure you that the beta tester who released the videos you are talking about is furious with the video released yesterday... And he's not the only one.

[Folderol]

Wow!
I think that just scorched my monitor

[resistorman]

Wow!
I think that just scorched my monitor

Heads may already be rolling...