Anyone ever used a Nail Bar?

[Freelance Subversive]

The G, D and A are significantly thinner than a 'normal' 13's set and different materials densities would make up the rest of the difference…

That should have read “pinless bridge”.

Mine are custom sets: 13, 17, 25, 35, 45, 57; round core, phosphor bronze. They’re not significantly different dimensions to the conventional set.

Last night I compared a fresh set of Newtone and D’addario non-coated Phosphor Bronze 13s, on two Lowden cedar top O models (a 1988 S22 and 2004 23), both of which previously had the NT set. As well as I could, on each I compared the old NT plain strings with fresh D’addario’s; then those with fresh NTs on the 22 model, using the same number of wraps around the tuner post on each. Even though well stretched, I can’t exclude the likelihood that being new has a fair impact on their feel. I also can’t exclude the D’addario’s not suiting those guitars particularly; they and Elixir always felt too stiff.

On the 23, for approx. 10 mins I played exercises, then melodies along the existing NT plain strings, then full arrangements across all to assess their apparent tension. Once changed to Ds and thoroughly stretched for 5 mins, I repeated the same exercises, melodies and arrangements; likewise on the S22. With a short break, I repeated again regularly switching between the two models. On the S22 I put a fresh set of NT with the same MO, played them in for 20-30 mins to compensate and after a short break compared each guitar.

Allowing for manufacturing tolerances of both the strings and guitars, there does indeed appear to be a significant difference in feel between the NT and D. The NTs when brought to pitch, seem to produce an extra wrap around the tuner post. On the NTs 13, I can bend up by 5 semi-tones with ease; whereas the Ds 13 just shy of 2 tones with some difficulty. Tentatively I’m satisfied the NT strings of similar gauge are lower tension.

…I can't help thinking just using a lighter gauge would get you the same benefit..

Not really, that would only solve the tension issue. The additional mass of larger gauges very much affects pitch stability, feel and tone, especially with alternative lower tunings.

[Wonks]

Newtone strings have round core wires, whilst the D'Addarios have a hex core. The wraps don't grip the core anywhere near as tightly on round core strings, so the core and wrap move over each other when tensioned or bent. Which means that you are proportionally tensioning the core a lot more than the wrap on round core strings, whereas with a hex core, the wrap grips the core and doesn't move much at all (if any), so it feels a lot firmer.

The round core strings are 'swaged' at the non-ball end, with a flattened section of core wire for the wrap to grip to. Never cut off a round core string to length before putting a good 90° bend in the string, otherwise the wrap will slip over the core, and you can get uneven mass/unit length and intonation issues. Put the string through the tuner hole, measure the wind length, put a good bend in the string, wind the string on and only then cut the excess off.

GHS strings are also round core, so if using those on vintage Fender style slotted tuners with a hole in the posts, again put the bend in the string at the point it will poke into the hole before cutting the end of the string off. This hex/round core difference also affects the tone of the string.

Hex core strings are generally toppier, with round core strings having a more full low-end in comparison.

[Sam Spoons]

Allowing for manufacturing tolerances of both the strings and guitars, there does indeed appear to be a significant difference in feel between the NT and D. The NTs when brought to pitch, seem to produce an extra wrap around the tuner post. On the NTs 13, I can bend up by 5 semi-tones with ease; whereas the Ds 13 just shy of 2 tones with some difficulty. Tentatively I’m satisfied the NT strings of similar gauge are lower tension.

…I can't help thinking just using a lighter gauge would get you the same benefit..

Not really, that would only solve the tension issue. The additional mass of larger gauges very much affects pitch stability, feel and tone, especially with alternative lower tunings.

The tension of the string (as opposed to the feel) is purely determined by the mass, scale length and pitch, you can't have additional mass without additional tension. If the NT strings really are lower tension they must have lower mass, that is inescapable. Whether the strings feel softer is a different matter but you can't change the laws of physics.

[Wonks]

But change the wrap alloy density and you can have the same diameter string with more or less mass. Change the mass/unit length and the tension that's required to achieve the same frequency also changes.

So don't believe it's not possible, as it is.

And string feel has a lot to do with our perception of whether the string feels like it's higher or lower tension (as does the string action height) and so the effort needed to fret the string.

[Sam Spoons]

But change the wrap alloy density and you can have the same diameter string with more or less mass. Change the mass/unit length and the tension that's required to achieve the same frequency also changes.

So don't believe it's not possible, as it is.

Yes, no argument, D'addario wound strings (.056" gauge) vary in mass by 10% between Nickel wound and Phosphor Bronze. Plus changing the core to wrap ratio will also alter the mass for a given diameter.

And string feel has a lot to do with our perception of whether the string feels like it's higher or lower tension (as does the string action height) and so the effort needed to fret the string.

We are singing from the same hymn sheet here Wonky.

[Guest]

I won't post my next thread then, it was going to be "Has anyone ever used Viagra."

Why not? Don’t let others put you off. You should stick up for yourself.

Be more like a Hard Man, is that what you are saying?

[Arpangel]

I was wondering why such a straightforward topic was going on for so many pages, now I know why.

[resistorman]

I was wondering why such a straightforward topic was going on for so many pages, now I know why.

Classic SOS Forum rabbit hole

[ManFromGlass]

I won't post my next thread then, it was going to be "Has anyone ever used Viagra."

I’ll stick to nylon picks, thanks.
I thought viagara was only good for helping to keep the sheets off your legs when the weather was too hot.

[Rene Asologuitar]

I have 13-56 strings on a busking guitar and they are ripping my fingernails up. I was wondering about going to a nail bar and have them put on some acrylic nails.
*******************
No, for nail bars.
Yes, for nail hardener.
Yes for finger picks, you have to get used to them, not easy either.

Rene

[Sam Spoons]

I’ll stick to nylon picks, thanks.

Don't get me started

Give some decent hard/stiff pics a try, not from a feel PoV, ignore that and listen to your guitar sound. Delrin and Nylon are too soft to sound good IMHO and anybody I have demonstrated the difference to has agreed with me. It matters less with an electric and hardly at all with highly distorted electric but on an acoustic the difference is night and day.

[Drew Stephenson]

Do you not find that different stiffnesses work for different parts?
If I'm after a bit of gentle, fill-in strumming, then a nice soft, floppy pick does the job.

[Albatross]

Too many jokes

[Sam Spoons]

Do you not find that different stiffnesses work for different parts?
If I'm after a bit of gentle, fill-in strumming, then a nice soft, floppy pick does the job.

I've become a little less militant these days but I find it hard to see/hear good sounding acoustic guitars being played with thin nylon picks which make them sound like the proverbial 'Sears-Roebuck special'. My thinest/softest picks are Wegen Bluegrass picks. 1.4mm and quite stiff for the thickness, I will use those for strummed parts. I mostly use the Wegen Gypsy picks on acoustic or the smaller Twins for electric, both 3.5mm thick and very stiff, but I'll happily play with the BG picks now where a few years ago I wouldn't use anything but the Gypsy picks.