STell frame garden building for a studio

[MarkMc9999]

Hi

First time poster.

I'm in discussions with a company that builds garden buildings in light-guage steel frames for a band rehearsal/jamming/possible live room in my garden. There will also be a separate (but attached office/studio/control room) (6x5.5m rehearsal, 7.5x4 office/studio).

They are very open to customisation, etc and we are going for a room within a room for the walls, but we are struggleing to come up with a viable solution noise-wise for the floor (steel frame structure sitting on ground screws) and ceiling.

I'd be very grateful for some advice on this.

Cheers,
Mark

[James Perrett]

I think you are starting from the wrong point here. A conventional high density block/brick built structure will work far better where soundproofing is concerned. You need mass to stop sound so lightweight structures simply won't work.

[Drew Stephenson]

I'm with James.
I have a room from these folks: https://www.thegardenoffice.co.uk/ with their acoustic kit.
It's fine for my purposes but if you were to put a full acoustic drum kit in there you'd get a lot of bleed outside.
I do have an acoustic kit but I use quiet heads and cymbals and you can still hear the kick outside. And I'm not a heavy drummer.

And, as you're probably aware, a heavy set of dual walls without a corresponding floor and ceiling won't make much difference.

[MarkMc9999]

Unfortunately we ahve been down that route, and the cost is prohibitive in the extrreme.

This is what we can affort and have to work with, so I'm looking for suggestions on the floor and ceiling. I have been readly plenty of books, online, youtube etc, but none have anything other than a concrete floor, which should tell me something I guess, but this just is not an option.

I need an office now I work from home, but doubling up as somewhere to record and write with my band would be great.

[Drew Stephenson]

Well you have to work with what you have.
In terms of floor, you could try creating a floating floor. There's a few ways of approaching this but they will involve a combination of mass and physical absorption.
But you'll need a plan for the ceiling as well for a full room-within-a-room. Can I ask if you're planning pitched rooves or flat roof? If the latter then you might find that a combination of a reinforced floor and a second ceiling leaves you very little headroom.
If you can't factor those in, you might be best to cut your losses and go with a standard build and just accept leakage - and accept that you'll need to negotiate suitable rehearsal times with the neighbours.

[James Perrett]

Unfortunately we ahve been down that route, and the cost is prohibitive in the extrreme.

I'm surprised - when I had mine built the outer shell was a similar cost to a similar sized log cabin or any other reasonably substantial portable building. I saved money by building the interior layer myself.

In your situation I would either spend your budget on hiring rehearsal rooms or plan to rehearse silently using electronic drums and headphones. I built something similar to what you seem to be planning for my first studio but I was lucky enough to have understanding neighbours and it was at the bottom of a very long garden.

[Wonks]

Ventilation is also going to be important with room-within-room construction. Have you given that any consideration? Fans and silenced baffles are usually involved.

[MarkMc9999]

Thanks for all your replies.

How would the floor and ceiling be floated? The builder said he didn't think resilient bar would work, which I found odd.

Fortunately we do have an ampless and IEM setup for gigging, just that we have an acoustic drum kit. We could get an electric kit if needs must.

For ventilation, we will have air conditioning.

Thanks

[Wonks]

Air conditioning may provide cooling, but if you haven't got any fresh air make-up and exhaust, then it'll get really stuffy really quickly. You'll want both sets of walls and ceilings sealed as much as possible for soundproofing, so you've got no natural ventilation, it will all need to be forced ventilation. And the more people inside, the quicker the CO2 will build up.

[jaminem]

Thanks for all your replies.

How would the floor and ceiling be floated? The builder said he didn't think resilient bar would work, which I found odd.

Fortunately we do have an ampless and IEM setup for gigging, just that we have an acoustic drum kit. We could get an electric kit if needs must.

For ventilation, we will have air conditioning.

Thanks

Hopefully you are being realistic about how much sound reduction you are expecting with this setup, because I think you will get some bass/drums spill, however....

Resilient channel will 'work' to a certain extent for the between the outer and inner skin of walls and ceiling assuming both are air tight, I'd do outer skin with insulation, airgap, internal stud frame with insulation and plaster board mounted on resilient channel for inner skin.
Think your builder is right about resilient channel for floor, its pretty light weight aluminium extrusion and wont bear huge amounts of weight. I floated my inner studs on heavy duty rubber underlay, then 2 layers of T&G, then soundbloc sheet, then thick laminate. You could also consider U-boats.

Having said all that, my live room has a concrete floor and I think the challenge you're gonna have is the weight of all this in whats essentially a wooden box, without proper footings....

Given you are considering an electronic kit, I wonder if you need much insulation at all? With the amount you could end up spending on something thats not going to provide massive amounts of isolation I reckon you could get a nice mesh head kit and just practice at sensible levels...?

The only reason bands are loud is trying to compete with drums, quiet drums and IEM's or even low wattage guitar/bass amps and PA may well be fine?

[jaminem]

...and re ventilation, just open the door when drummer looks like he's gonna pass out

[MarkMc9999]

Thanks all, very useful.

The floor you suggest is along the lines of what the builder is suggesting. I guess practical reality is we're not gonna be able to do full on band rehearsals in there. The room is going to double as a gym and movie room as well, so it's not going to need some kind of sound insulation anyhow.

I'll get back to the aircon company as I'd assumed the air flow was taken care of with that, but thinking about it, of course, with a mini split that's not gonna happen - doh!

How on earth do you ventilate without sound leakage?

Our drummer is old skool and refuses to use an electronic kit. What are these hybrid kits like are they just loud like a real acoustic but have an electronic/midi output?

I think I'll have to get him finger drumming on my MPC Mini lol

[Drew Stephenson]

How on earth do you ventilate without sound leakage?

Fans and baffle boxes as Wonks mentioned above.

Our drummer is old skool and refuses to use an electronic kit. What are these hybrid kits like are they just loud like a real acoustic but have an electronic/midi output?

Drummers are possibly the group who are technologically resistant than guitarists!