Recording underside of grand piano

[wearashirt]

I just want to share my experience and ask questions about recording the soundboard of a grand piano, where LDC's in cardioid were placed underneath. 1 mic was at the farthest curve of the soundboard, and the other mic was at the shorter side, near the right leg of the piano. Of course there were trusses that ran across the soundboard, and it was a limiting factor in placing the mics, or worse, might have created a chambering effect. A rockwool acoustic panel was placed on the floor underneath the mics for good measure.

In terms of immediate impact, the sound quality of underneath-grand piano recording was better than any of the other stuff I recorded from the conventional method i.e. recording spaced or xy or midside with the lid open in full.

In terms of processing issues, i found that the stereo image was narrower, especially since the soundboard simply reverberates any and all notes from the strings. Nevertheless, a little left-right sensation could still be felt, especially when playing wider on the keyboard. I'm sure with SDC's (or if I used a fig 8 pattern) the results would have been better.

A notably grand-piano centric pop recording is Adele's Someone Like You, and if indeed it was Warren Huart who did the record - he has a video showing a spaced LDC pair above the soundboard. I don't know with ya'll, but that to me, means that NOBODY worth their salt does underside grand piano recording.

Is recording the underside of a grand piano some sort of a little known secret?

Or are there some major issues to it which is why it's not regarded as an industry convention?

[Arpangel]

I’ve tried this with SDC’s and found the imaging a bit blurred and the sound very boomy provably owing to the closed in nature of the space the small distance between bottom of piano and floor unlike the open space of top microphones,

[Drew Stephenson]

Like most things there are compromises to the approach, but there are potential advantages as well and it's not the first time it's been suggested on here.
I've definitely read of it being used when recording full bands as it can be easier to gobo round and improve isolation.

[Mike Stranks]

I've used the technique many times when recording live events.

It has advantages and disadvantages....

Advantages:
* Mic(s) safely out of the way of inadvertent knocks - and worse - on busy, crowded stages.
* Good separation when either multitracking or mixing direct to stereo
* Doesn't need the lid open if the 'band' doesn't usually work like that for volume or sight-line reasons.

Disadvantages:
* Various factors can conspire to give a 'boxy' sound, as mentioned already by Arpangel. Judicious EQ and (if possible) very gentle reverb in post can help fix that. But in a busy mix I never found it a challenge.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Recording sound directly from under the soundboard with contact mics, or with boundary mics on the floor under the piano are recognised techniques, but they tend to be used as methods of last resort in difficult (usually live sound) situations, rather than as first choice studio recording techniques.

The grand piano design evolved over a long time to project a balanced sound towards an audience. And that full sound intended for the audience comprises sound from the soundboard bouncing off the floor, plus sound from soundboard and strings radiating out from above, with the mid and high frequencies being reflected forward from the lid, and the percussion of the hammers.

Obviously, recording from below misses out on some of those elements, but whether that's important depends on how the piano fits into the mix.

[wearashirt]

Like most things there are compromises to the approach, but there are potential advantages as well and it's not the first time it's been suggested on here.
I've definitely read of it being used when recording full bands as it can be easier to gobo round and improve isolation.

Indeed, Norah Jones' live-on-youtube Come Away With Me 20th anniversary shows a closed grand piano lid with no mics to be seen in frame.

[Mike Stranks]

Like most things there are compromises to the approach, but there are potential advantages as well and it's not the first time it's been suggested on here.
I've definitely read of it being used when recording full bands as it can be easier to gobo round and improve isolation.

Indeed, Norah Jones' live-on-youtube Come Away With Me 20th anniversary shows a closed grand piano lid with no mics to be seen in frame.

But that doesn't necessarily mean the instrument was being 'floor-mic'd'. There are plenty of excellent mics specifically designed to be used inside a piano and clipped onto the frame...

[sonics]

DPA and C-Ducer in use at my last gig. No mics visible!

Harder to hide four cables, though!