Plectrum choices

[Eddy Deegan]

Some people don't use picks, but I'm not and never will be one of them.

I've owned guitars for years but never really given them the time and attention they deserve. My current abilities reflect this. However I'm determined to up the game and subsequent to obtaining a nice new one I've been putting some proper time in if only to refresh and polish the noodlings I've accumulated over the years, learn some scales and in general become more familiar with the feel of the instrument.

I'm taking the matter quite seriously. Historically I've gravitated towards very small picks as I find they flap about less and are more precise when I'm adopting my favoured playing technique which is a classical (I think) style whereby I hold the pick between thumb and index finger to strike the low notes while using the other three fingers to pluck the higher-pitched strings nakedly, in a sort-of arpeggiated manner, if that makes sense.

As a newbie I have some challenges I'm seeking to conquer. The first is to accurately strike the string I want to with the plectrum without brushing the adjacent ones. The second is damping but that's probably a subject for a different topic.

Do any of you seasoned players have any advice on the size of plectrum and the manner in which it's held? Years ago I knew a guitarist who I sought advice from but was quite zealous about the size of pick and how it was grasped. He was also very insistent on playing from the elbow, locking the wrist and using the forearm like a turntable arm where the pick was the stylus. While his approach worked for him it feels a bit robotic and instinctively I want to get more expression from the wrist - but perhaps that's the pianist in me.

I have a bad habit of 'digging in' as opposed to brushing the strings when playing certain things and I'm trying to improve that.

I'm aware of my immediate shortcomings (I'm also sure more will turn up in due course) and happily doing my thing to overcome them but any guidance or insight into why one chooses a certain size/style of pick over another and any related tips on holding/using it, especially in terms of accuracy, would be welcome

[Drew Stephenson]

Personally I've always got on with a thumb pick.
I only use a spectrum if i'm recording a strummed part.

[Eddy Deegan]

Personally I've always got on with a thumb pick.
I only use a spectrum if i'm recording a strummed part.

A thumb pick might work for me (I had to DuckDuckGo it) but I've never tried one. I've just ordered one to find out, thanks Drew.

I assume you meant 'plectrum' in place of 'spectrum'? If not I'm open to a bit of education.

[BJG145]

It took me decades to find a plectrum I liked. Jazz III Ultex is my forever pick.

Jazz III players include Eric Johnson, Marcus King, Joe Bonamassa, John Petrucci, John McLaughlin...it's a personal thing though. Just try a load until you find one you like.

[Wonks]

The bloody internet ate my first reply, so here's a precis.

It's very individual. After using very thin Sharksfin plectrums for many years I ended up getting a big selection of picks of different sizes, shapes, thicknesses and materials, to see what suited me best (Ernie ball do a good mixed selection bag of thin and medium picks). I ended up with celuloid thin picks. The material makes a big difference.

As for wrist/hand/elbow technique, I don't believe a single technique is 'best'. All affected by bone structure, joint mobility and finger length etc. A YT review of all the really fast shredders showed a huge variation in right hand technique. You can play well using any technique if it suits the way you are built IMO.

[Wonks]

I believe Ritchie Blackmore used real tortoishell spectrums when he was in Rainbow.

[Eddy Deegan]

it's a personal thing though. Just try a load until you find one you like.

It's very individual...
... I ended up with celuloid thin picks. The material makes a big difference.

As for wrist/hand/elbow technique, I don't believe a single technique is 'best'. All affected by bone structure, joint mobility and finger length etc. A YT review of all the really fast shredders showed a huge variation in right hand technique. You can play well using any technique if it suits the way you are built IMO.

This is all hugely reassuring. When it comes to matters guitar I don't know what I don't know but aiming to have some awareness of what I don't know and, as with all instruments I suspect, there are some areas where it's just 'find what works for you'. That works for me, as does 'practice until you're more accurate'.

Thank you chaps

[Drew Stephenson]

For spectrum read plectrum throughout...

Mr Spoons of this parish favours a very thick and stiff plectrum for his gypsy jazz stuff so, as Wonks says, it really is horses for courses.

[zenguitar]

https://www.dugainplectrums.com/standug ... -pick.html

That's the Dugain plectrum I showed you when you purchased your new toy. I also have examples in horn and ebony and there's a wide range of other options. There's also a slightly smaller version as well.

I tend to use Dugain plectra to re-establish a reliable grip when my technique gets sloppy. And then I go back to whatever picks I happen to be using at the time.

Andy

[shufflebeat]

Hold your thumb and #1 finger together at the tips*. This is how most people play sweeping chords. It works but as the distance between wrist and pick as slightly more then precision is more difficult to maintain.

As the leverage is greater the impact on your fingers is also more significant, remember that most folks' fingers aren't really evolved withstand careless hammering.

*Now slide your thumb tip past the first knuckle and allow it to rest between the 1st and 2nd knuckles, hold the pick there and tuck the tip of finger #1 into the base of your thumb if necessary. Two things happen:

- Precision from one string to another is much easier to maintain
- Forces acting on the fingers are much reduced.

If you can make this technique your default before bad habits (like mine) become established you may find playing easier and also avoid joint stress issues in the future.

[Martin Walker]

I'm finding this a useful thread too, as I explore tonal options with my fretless bass. Of course the most obvious technique with fretless is fingerstyle, but you can get lots of additional tones with plectrums.

I'm currently using the thickest plectrum I've got, as bass strings are much thicker than lead guitar strings, but I daresay different plectrum materials will alter the tone on a bass as well.

[Eddy Deegan]

Hold your thumb and #1 finger together at the tips*. This is how most people play sweeping chords. It works but as the distance between wrist and pick as slightly more then precision is more difficult to maintain.

As the leverage is greater the impact on your fingers is also more significant, remember that most folks' fingers aren't really evolved withstand careless hammering.

*Now slide your thumb tip past the first knuckle and allow it to rest between the 1st and 2nd knuckles, hold the pick there and tuck the tip of finger #1 into the base of your thumb if necessary. Two things happen:

- Precision from one string to another is much easier to maintain
- Forces acting on the fingers are much reduced.

If you can make this technique your default before bad habits (like mine) become established you may find playing easier and also avoid joint stress issues in the future.

My emphasis ... wow, that really works!

[zenguitar]

Hold your thumb and #1 finger together at the tips*. This is how most people play sweeping chords. It works but as the distance between wrist and pick as slightly more then precision is more difficult to maintain.

As the leverage is greater the impact on your fingers is also more significant, remember that most folks' fingers aren't really evolved withstand careless hammering.

*Now slide your thumb tip past the first knuckle and allow it to rest between the 1st and 2nd knuckles, hold the pick there and tuck the tip of finger #1 into the base of your thumb if necessary. Two things happen:

- Precision from one string to another is much easier to maintain
- Forces acting on the fingers are much reduced.

If you can make this technique your default before bad habits (like mine) become established you may find playing easier and also avoid joint stress issues in the future.

My emphasis ... wow, that really works!

And this grip is exactly what the Dugain plectrum makes you use.

Andy

[BigRedX]

IMO there is no right answer to this question. The best thing the OP can do is to go to their local musical instrument store and if possible buy one of every pick they have and see what suits them. Size, weight and material of the pick will all have an influence on both playing style and the sound produced. What suits one player is not at all guaranteed to suit another.

For me I have not settled on the Herco Flex 75 for bass (I buy them in boxes of 100 which last me about 5 years) and a variety of different picks of varying thicknesses and materials for the guitar where I find that the type of pick makes a far bigger difference to the sound especially on cleaner tones.

[Sam Spoons]

The following are some of my thoughts and pertain to acoustic instruments, electric guitar players (at least those who favour distortion/overdrive tones or use pedals/fx) have it easy as much of the tone comes from the pedals/amp. Pics make a huge difference to tone, as does how you hold them. Following on from shufflebeat's post, while a 'fingertip grip' works and some very highly respected players use it, a 'Bluegrass grip'* as described where the pic is held between the first joint of the index finger and the thumb is louder and fatter toned, especially when combined with a fat pic like the Dugain pic Zen linked. I wish I could do it but all my efforts so far have failed to break me away from 57 years of lazy technique.

Regarding pic materials and thickness, and referring to acoustic instruments not electric, thin picks have limited uses and IMHO usually sound rubbish** (a mate has a beautiful Bown 000 style acoustic which he played with a thin nylon pick, it sounded like a cheap 'Sears Roebuck' jobbie. After a brief demo with a 'decent' pick he immediately ordered a couple of Bluechip picks and hasn't looked back). Likewise nylon, it's nowhere near hard enough and sounds either 'clicky' (sub 1mm) or dull (1mm+).

I use Wegen picks, mostly 3.5mm thick and not dissimilar to the Dugain (except for the finger groove) but I think the material is harder than Delrin and believe it to be the same stuff used for dental prosthetics. I use the big 30 x 26 mm Gypsy Jazz pick for acoustic and mandolin and the smaller 'Twins' (27.5 x 23.3 x 3.5 mm) for electric. I also have a few of his Bluegrass pics (standard shape 1.4mm thick but the very hard material makes them feel much stiffer than a tortex 2mm) for when I want a brighter sound (they're also cheaper at €16.50 for four rather than 16.50 each for the GJ pick).

* Despite my failure, so far, to make the transition I would definitely suggest you consider trying to adopt the Bluegrass Grip if you currently use a fingertip grip. It needn't preclude using some wrist articulation but is, potentially, more accurate.

** Ok(ish) if you want a percussive rhythm sound and they are more forgiving that thicker picks.

[Martin Walker]

Thanks shufflebeat - I now know who Molly Tuttle is!

[shufflebeat]

She's my current guitar hero.

[Sam Spoons]

She's amazing, a great songwriter and singer too, as if just being a virtuoso picker isn't enough

WRT the Bluegrass Grip, this thread form a few years ago goes into more detail https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 22&t=60093 the pic of the BG grip is of my hand and I interpret it slightly differently to shuffelbeat's description but I think the principle is the same.

[merlyn]

... when I'm adopting my favoured playing technique which is a classical (I think) style whereby I hold the pick between thumb and index finger to strike the low notes while using the other three fingers to pluck the higher-pitched strings nakedly, in a sort-of arpeggiated manner, if that makes sense.

In classical guitar playing no pick is used. It's all fingers, plus the thumb which does the same thing as the pick is doing in your technique. It's called 'hybrid' or 'pick and fingers' technique.

In classical guitar the right hand thumb is called 'p', the first finger 'i', the second finger 'm', the third finger 'a' and the pinky 'c'. With hybrid picking the index finger is holding the pick so we have the pick plus m, a and c. I use this for playing chords, so that all the notes sound at the same time, and the maximum number of notes at a time is four.

What's being called a 'bluegrass grip' is not going to work for hybrid picking. The right hand fingers are parallel to the strings.

I would suggest that if you want to use hybrid picking, get something going with the fingers and thumb, so you get the feel of that. You'll know what fingerstyle or classical is meant to be like, before adding in the pick. I notice I shift my grip when going between hybrid picking for chords and a grip with the index finger pulled in more towards the hand for single notes.

[Eddy Deegan]

I am now awash with excellent advice, good recommendations and some new terminology, thank you all again

Having started to overcome the habit of 'digging in' and instead moving across the surface of the strings, gently brushing them, I've also found that my accuracy has improved even when not actually strumming. I think that's probably down to a general improvement in hand positioning.

[bonefixer]

There’s so much variation in how equally virtuosic players do it I really don’t think there’s a right answer.

Vinnie Moore - picks from the elbow
Paul Gilbert - wrist, with a free hand
John Petrucci - wrist, with his little finger anchored to the face of the guitar
Yngwie Malmsteen - uses economy motion at finger/thumb joints
Eddie Van Halen - held the pick between thumb and middle, and had a rotating wrist action with his hand floating over the strings.

I’ve looked at this A LOT!

You might want to check out the series of videos by Troy Grady entitled ‘Cracking the code’ where he deconstructs a lot of this with high speed video and talks about ‘pick slanting’ to avoid hitting the adjacent strings. Real technical nerdy stuff - it’s great.

Personally I like a thick pick and use a Dunlop 1.14mm Tortex. Can’t stand flimsy nylon things, but each to their own.

As for hybrid style, check out Steve Howe’s close-up videos of him playing ‘The Clap’.

[Fishnish]

...........
As for hybrid style, check out Steve Howe’s close-up videos of him playing ‘The Clap’.

Like you say, there's no right answer, you just have to work out what works for you. But of course that may change over time...

Coming from starting with classical playing, I always struggled with a pick which I used to hold between the tips of thumb and 1st finger. Could never get the hang of the tucked in position with the thumb over the ist joint of the bent in 1st finger. and often even used to use the nail of my first finger as a pseudo pick. I spent hours (and years!) trying to improve my picking but the way I was holding it just didn't make it easy for me.

I'd always admired Steve Howe's hybrid style, not just on things like "Clap" but also in his electric playing (eg Starship Trooper) but again coming from classical playing and with nails like talons I could approximate it pretty well pickless but then struggle to pick up the pick for the straight picking passages, if that makes sense.
It took me a couple of decades to get round to being happy with the hybrid style. The key that unlocked it was aquiring a full depth jazz box semi that put my hand in a more forward position as there was more to lean on with the forearm. I went from being unable to do it to suddenly being comfortable with it within just a few minutes, purely due to that enforced rethinking of my forearm position. Now I find that hybrid is super versatile, it's really opened up my playing, even on skinny bodied solid guitars and steel/slide. It's allowed me to draw on those early years of classical training the right hand fingers and also gives me a better balance between bass and top strings. As a result of getting into hybrid picking my RH grip for normal picking is much more relaxed and comfortable now. I also sometimes tuck the pick into the palm of my hand so i can use the pads of my fingers to vary the tone/dynamics.

The downside is that while my plectrum playing has opened up, pure fingerstyle and classical seems to have suffered through neglect!

[Sam Spoons]

What's being called a 'bluegrass grip' is not going to work for hybrid picking. The right hand fingers are parallel to the strings.

Not sure about this, the pick, when held in the 'Bluegrass Grip' the tip is in the same position as the tip of a thumb pick. Classical players use the end of the thumbnail with the fingers and thumb almost perpendicular to the top, thumbpick users play with the thumb parallel to the strings and the fingers curled round.

Much like this :-

[merlyn]

It might be simpler trying it.

Without a pick in your hand put your m, a and c fingers on the G, B and E strings. Now with the other hand put the pick into your picking hand. What is the grip like?

[Sam Spoons]

Just posted this diatribe in answer to shufflebeat's post on the Virtual SoS thread but decided it was more useful here so I've moved it :-

Molly explained her right hand technique in a video, she uses the Bluegrass grip on the pick with a loose wrist when strumming and then braces her palm in the bridge when soloing. Tommy uses a range of different RH techniques, thumbpick and fingers, hybrid (flatpick and fingers), fingers and bare thumb and, flatpick using the Bluegrass grip*, but the video linked shows his Gypsy Jazz picking technique is slightly unconventional as he allows his fingers to rest on/brush the top which for GJ is an absolute no-no (watch Joscho's RH).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZdy41sWCsY

* Close observation suggests he changes the position of his index finger when hybrid picking but maintains the thumbpick like position of the tip.

The disadvantage of using a 'proper' bluegrass grip when hybrid picking is that it stiffens your hand up (which is the whole point of it) so renders the picking fingers less fluent