Mic Question M300 vs MKH 8040 or alternative

[thorsten_21]

Ok, the noise floor is important to me as I do more intimate acoustic guitar recordings, also fingerpicking. I am really curious about TF 5’s, I liked the sound samples out there. Together with the stereo bar that comes with it, it’s really a great price point.

For a second vocal mic the ribbon RODE NTF caught my attention. But not for now, maybe in a couple of months. I haven’t know that they are also in the market for higher quality mics.

My other voice mic is my beloved Gefell M930.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Rode started out with rebadged Chinese mics, but quickly moved into assembling their own designs from Far East components, and then designing and manufacturing their own mics entirely in Australia. The company now has some very impressive production factories and some seriously clever R&D people and facilities.

So while they still address the budget end of the market with a good range of cost-effective mics — and rely on the mass selling popular products for much of the company's profitability — they have been increasingly developing a range of serious high-end mics, too.

I'd happily put the TF-5s up against any Schoeps, Sennheiser or Neumann. Yes, they'd all have different characters, but all are high quality and capable in the right circumstances.

[thorsten_21]

Yes, that’s true.

The Gefells are still on my list besides the TF-5’s. It’s really strange that Thomann doesn’t carry the Gefells, as they are a German company. Just wondering because I may test both mics before I buy.

[thorsten_21]

Another serious contender (I assume):

Austrian Audio CC8

Just stumbled across them due to the AKG anniversary.
What a great story (Austrian Audio) and the reviews and sound examples are very promising.

Any opinions about that brand?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Take the best of vintage AKG, add modern features and flexibility, and production quality, then sell at sensible prices. What's not to like?

[Aled Hughes]

I have a pair of the AA 818 and I like them very much, but the CC8 didn’t really appeal since I’ve never really liked the AKG 451 that they’re a continuation of. The CC8 may well be an improvement though.

I think the Beyerdynamic MC930 deserves serious consideration too- very good mics for not that much money. We have MKH40s at the studio too, and it rarely feels that I’m losing out when I use the Beyers. The Beyers have slightly more character, which is sometimes welcome.

The MKH40 are specials mics though, but extremely expensive!

Neumann KM184 perhaps worth auditioning too? Rather bright sometimes, but it’s a pleasant brightness that’s often gorgeous on acoustic guitar.

I’ll also second that the Line Audio stuff are really very good!

Aled

[thorsten_21]

I have to admit, that I prefer Mics for acoustic guitars to be a bit more towards the smooth/darker side. That’s why I don’t really consider the Neumanns. Maybe they will fit well in a Pop/Rock scenario.

I find it easier to add a bit more high sparkle in post production and more difficult to reduce too much high end.

In that regard I might prefer the CC8 over the Neumanns.

[Aled Hughes]

I have to admit, that I prefer Mics for acoustic guitars to be a bit more towards the smooth/darker side. That’s why I don’t really consider the Neumanns. Maybe they will fit well in a Pop/Rock scenario.

I find it easier to add a bit more high sparkle in post production and more difficult to reduce too much high end.

In that regard I might prefer the CC8 over the Neumanns.

I agree with you and feel the same for the most part, but be aware that many models of the AKG 451 were rather bright as well, and the CC8 is aiming for that family sound. I haven't tried them though - they certainly would be worth trying if you can.

[Arpangel]

I think the Beyerdynamic MC930 deserves serious consideration too- very good mics for not that much money. We have MKH40s at the studio too, and it rarely feels that I’m losing out when I use the Beyers. The Beyers have slightly more character, which is sometimes welcome.

The MKH40 are specials mics though, but extremely expensive!

You’re right, the 40’s don’t have a character, as such, I’d never sell them though, simply because they are reliable, you know exactly what you’re going to get, and I suppose, what goes in, comes out essentially.
I guess the Beyer has more character, as such, but what I like about the 40 is it’s uncanny realism, we did a spoken word recording with it a few months back, and it was scary, like the person was sitting right next to us, rather than coming out of the speakers.

[thorsten_21]

I have to admit, that I prefer Mics for acoustic guitars to be a bit more towards the smooth/darker side. That’s why I don’t really consider the Neumanns. Maybe they will fit well in a Pop/Rock scenario.

I find it easier to add a bit more high sparkle in post production and more difficult to reduce too much high end.

In that regard I might prefer the CC8 over the Neumanns.

I agree with you and feel the same for the most part, but be aware that many models of the AKG 451 were rather bright as well, and the CC8 is aiming for that family sound. I haven't tried them though - they certainly would be worth trying if you can.

Yes, it would be great if I can try them before buying.

Regarding the CC8 I got the impression of a more smooth character. But I could be wrong, it was via YouTube only.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Our beloved Sam is of the same view.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/austrian-audio-cc8

[thorsten_21]

Our beloved Sam is of the same view.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/austrian-audio-cc8

Thanks! That’s good to know, sometimes you can trust even YouTube audio!
The Austrian Audio‘s are definitely on my list!

It seems my budget plays also a bigger role than expected. I would prefer to stay under 1k (as it looks right now).

[thorsten_21]

What about self noise?

My other microphone is Gefell M930 which is absolutely silent for my ears (self noise 7dBA). Other than that I own two dynamic Shure mics, which a silent.

What about a self noise of 16 dBA? The Austrian Audio CC8 offers 16dBA.
When you do also silent fingerpicking parts with no other instrument will this be a problem?

One possibility is, that I first buy one pencil condenser like the M300 (which again is very quiet) and add another one later.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Self-noise is related to diaphragm size, so SDCs will always be noisier than LDCs... but I've never had a noise problem miking guitars with SDCs.

Self-noise in SDCs varies between about 12-25dBA. The CC8 is moderately good in that respect.

[sonics]

Post-processing noise reduction (should you feel the need to use it) is also cheap, easy and transparent, unlike the old days! Any decent SDC used correctly should not be a problem.

[thorsten_21]

Self-noise is related to diaphragm size, so SDCs will always be noisier than LDCs... but I've never had a noise problem miking guitars with SDCs.

Self-noise in SDCs varies between about 12-25dBA. The CC8 is moderately good in that respect.

Ok, thanks for clearing that!

[thorsten_21]

Post-processing noise reduction (should you feel the need to use it) is also cheap, easy and transparent, unlike the old days! Any decent SDC used correctly should not be a problem.

Ok, then I seem to be on the safe side with the selection I am considering.

For a stereo pair, the only way for me is the CC8 or a Beyerdynamic MC930

Other possibilities may be:

1 x M300 combined with a brighter SDC (lower price range)

1 x Neumann KM184 combined with a darker SDC (lower price range)

There are lots of more options, but that’s what in my mind. Will try to test one or two for sure.

[thorsten_21]

I have to admit, I pulled the trigger for a stereo pair of the

Beyerdynamic MC930

I could resist and will get a new stereo pair set for $849.

I will test it and if it doesn’t suit my needs I can send them back. But I have a good gut feeling to be honest. It’s seems not to be an allrounder but on the other hand my only use will be the 6 string western guitar.

Looking forward to recording with it.

Thanks everyone who contributed in this thread (especially to the one who mentioned the MC930).

[Hugh Robjohns]

I like the Beyer930s a lot. A little smoother and darker sounding than KM184s, and more similar to the revered KM84s. Good all-rounders. Enjoy.

[thorsten_21]

I like the Beyer930s a lot. A little smoother and darker sounding than KM184s, and more similar to the revered KM84s. Good all-rounders. Enjoy.

Thanks!
Yes, I was looking for a more smoother/darker sound. Very excited to experiment/record with them .

[Aled Hughes]

Thanks everyone who contributed in this thread (especially to the one who mentioned the MC930).

you’re welcome! Hope you like then as much as I do.

[thorsten_21]

Thanks everyone who contributed in this thread (especially to the one who mentioned the MC930).

you’re welcome! Hope you like then as much as I do.

I will report about my first impressions with these mics.
But I know, there’s a lot to learn along the way. Especially, when it comes to acoustic guitar recordings. And that might include my playing abilities also .

[Nazard]

As far as I remember, you bought the Merging Technologies Anubis Pro. Great choice, the MixPre would have proved frustrating in the role you assigned it: still a great portable recorder, though, and which your Beyers would work very nicely with. If you you do buy a MixPre at some stage, the Musician plugin is well worth getting.

As a matter of interest, how pleased are you with your recording space for your guitar recordings? I have had some Beyer mics for may years, very nice.

[thorsten_21]

As far as I remember, you bought the Merging Technologies Anubis Pro. Great choice, the MixPre would have proved frustrating in the role you assigned it: still a great portable recorder, though, and which your Beyers would work very nicely with. If you you do buy a MixPre at some stage, the Musician plugin is well worth getting.

As a matter of interest, how pleased are you with your recording space for your guitar recordings? I have had some Beyer mics for may years, very nice.

I am very pleased with the Anubis, it’s a fantastic sounding device in compact format. It’s very stable once I set it up (though I had to contact their support, because you need a special AVB / Thunderbolt adapter for some newer Macs).
Latency is not an issue (around 10ms @128buffer) and you can have almost zero latency while recording. Analog I/O’s are enough for me to be honest.

And yes, maybe the MixPre will come at a later stage, when I do more field recordings.

I will post an update after my first recordings, the MC930 will arrive Wednesday .

[thorsten_21]

I did some test recording with the MC930 and these stereo pairs are amazing.
But I also have a new interface with the Merging Anubis, so I am not sure what unit is responsible for the sound improvement .

Anyway, I did a comparison with my Gefell M930 and the Lewitt 440 Pure as a stereo set up. I have to admit that I like these more. It’s not that the Beyerdynamic is not good, it’s quiet the opposite, but I prefer bigger diaphragm condenser on acoustic guitar.

Especially with strumming it is obvious. The small condenser mics (like my Lewitt LCT 340) sound a bit compressed, not open enough. Both small condenser mics (Beyerdynamics and Lewitt) sound too modern for me, they sound like a lot of these modern acoustic guitar sounds you hear on the radio.

I have to say that I am not a fan of that sound. There is too much detail or higher frequencies, or in other words, when I record acoustic guitar, I prefer the sound I hear when I play.

I can imagine that the brightness of modern small condenser mics will fit in a bigger production. But I do a more stripped down approach with only guitar and voice.

It’s just my personal taste, I don’t want to criticize the MC930.