Wonks wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:15 am
It's almost like an ode to valves.
Three or five of them?
Just FYI. I have met and worked with for a short time, two very, very clever men who designed guitar amplifiers. One, sadly no longer with us was adamant that, although he used them (bloody well!) in his designs, valves were nothing special and the same OD qualities could be got from transistor circuits and later DSP.
The other chap, equally brilliant was in the and out and out "valves is best and cannot be simulated perfectly" camp.
Yer pays yer money. Then there is the third section that says, "No matter if you had an exact replica of Clapton's rig you would not have HIS hands"
ef37a wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:36 pm
Yer pays yer money. Then there is the third section that says, "No matter if you had an exact replica of Clapton's rig you would not have HIS hands"
The landscape has changed, I spoke to a friend last night. he’s selling his Mesa Boogie Mark 3 60w Combo, 80’s job.
It’s got a line out, I’m thinking I can use this to record my synths, but it may be a bit OTT?
Reading the Mk III manual, the direct out (line out) has no speaker emulation, and is basically a variable output DI connected to the amp output. So it will sound very fizzy indeed with distortion.
The alternative is the effects send output, which is taken before the reverb, but again that will be very fizzy sounding. So, you'll need to pass the result of either through a cab sim, be it hardware or software, or a basic low pass filter, if you don't want the distortion to be too bright.
I was thinking that there surely should be a passive EQ on the market that can be put in the line output of an amp to give speaker emulation? Not so it seems and digging out the EMu circuit of the HT-DUAL I see it is quite complex. 4 op amp stages with a gyrator in a state variable filter. Might still do it with a few C&Rs and an inductor?
Still, with modern SMT should not be too costly. My preferred powering would be an on board battery rechargeable from a USB port/supply and a DC-DC converter to give decent rails and therefore good headroom.
The Mesa is incredibly noisy, I mean, really noisy.
It’s great at full tilt, sounds incredible, but thats no use to me, and my friend is selling it because he no longer plays live, and wants something more suited to playing at home.
Arpangel wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:39 am
The Mesa is incredibly noisy, I mean, really noisy.
It’s great at full tilt, sounds incredible, but thats no use to me, and my friend is selling it because he no longer plays live, and wants something more suited to playing at home.
That is the Great Conundrum of the home recordist's world and one that I read constantly in forums. Goes like this...
Gigging musician has been playing for 20years + with his beloved 'Plexi', AC30 or indeed Mesa and then decides to get into some of this computer audio stuff. Stuff a mic in front of well travelled amp and, AT THE LEVELS HE CAN USE without waking the chavvy in the bedroom (why he came off the road!) the signal to noise ratio is bloody terrible!
There are of course several solutions. Get an amplifier that has been designed FROM THE GROUND UP to be low noise (spam forbids!) Get a power soak so you have a big signal then attenuate it along with the noise. Noise gates and of course, DSP and IR. None of these really satisfies. Do not sound or feel like 50-100W through a 4x12 but, them's physics! Cannot be done but you can get close.
ef37a wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:21 am
Get an amplifier that has been designed FROM THE GROUND UP to be low noise (spam forbids!)
I don't think it's spam if you mention it in context, Dave, particularly as you no longer work there, and certainly not if you declare an interest. But either way, there's nothing stopping *me* pointing out for the benefit of others reading the thread that you're talking about Blackstar amps
On the subject of quiet amps, I recently had an impressive demo of a rather pricer model by Hamstead Soundworks, who are just down the road from me. Very quiet, switchable wattage, and some very lovely sounds... You'd have to be very serious to part with that amount of cash, but if you already have a big Mesa that's maybe not an insurmountable problem.
ef37a wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:21 am
Get an amplifier that has been designed FROM THE GROUND UP to be low noise (spam forbids!)
I don't think it's spam if you mention it in context, Dave, particularly as you no longer work there, and certainly not if you declare an interest. But either way, there's nothing stopping *me* pointing out for the benefit of others reading the thread that you're talking about Blackstar amps
On the subject of quiet amps, I recently had an impressive demo of a rather pricer model by Hamstead Soundworks, who are just down the road from me. Very quiet, switchable wattage, and some very lovely sounds... You'd have to be very serious to part with that amount of cash, but if you already have a big Mesa that's maybe not an insurmountable problem.
Nice of you to say so Mix' and I am probably being over cautious but then I don't want peeps to think "Oh! 'Im and his ****** Bstar amplifiers!"
Specifically, the HT-5 is a very quiet amplifier and unlike most 5W* valve amps it uses a fixed biased, push pull output stage and thus overloads in a very similar way to the noisy monsters. The combination of balanced drive and op amps that give very low noise and NO hum allows the valve pre amp stage to work well above its intrinsic noise level. The late designer Bruce was almost OCD about keep noise levels low and I am sure Blackstar have continued that policy.
*And being FB, PP it can be driven to some 10 watts and thus can give a good account of itself when gigged with a suitable speaker system. And...
BEWARE OF CHEAP IMITATIONS!
Arpangel wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:47 pm
These pedals look great, I don’t have, any distortion, drive pedals.
Thanks for nothing, big trouble again.
Well Arp' I doubt a man of your electronics resources needs all the gizmos on those pedals? Not short of an interface for instance?
So, you could look around for one of the older HT pedals? The HT-DUAL is really versatile being in effect a 3 channel effects pedal. They were a bit 'Marmite' on the market because they are taller than standard 9volt pedals and needed a special 22V supply. Awkward then to integrate into your common pedal board but I do not recall anyone complaining about the sound quality! Since you are not a ballet dancing gitist the pedal should suit you sir.
The early jobs are all 'thru hole' components so easy to fix and Blackstar's charges for a refurb are pretty low. But really the only things that failed were the pots. The valve seemed to last forever!
Dave.
Thanks Dave, I’ll keep a look out.
They seem to be "proper" valve jobs, not just there for decoration.
They are indeed "proper" in fact virtually all the distortion comes from the two valve sections. Some naysayers have looked at 'robbed' (not by me!) schematics and said " Ugh! Just a simple 'king diode clipper!" Wrong. The circuit is a level booster with diode FEEDBACK. A poor man's compressor if you will and its purpose is to prevent excessive drive to the valve. You can have too much distortion.
Dave.
This is sounding even better Dave, especially the compression bit.
Dave, do you have the schematic of the dept 10 dual drive? i need it for a problem in te power section
ef37a wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:54 pm
Well Arp' I doubt a man of your electronics resources needs all the gizmos on those pedals? Not short of an interface for instance?
So, you could look around for one of the older HT pedals? The HT-DUAL is really versatile being in effect a 3 channel effects pedal. They were a bit 'Marmite' on the market because they are taller than standard 9volt pedals and needed a special 22V supply. Awkward then to integrate into your common pedal board but I do not recall anyone complaining about the sound quality! Since you are not a ballet dancing gitist the pedal should suit you sir.
The early jobs are all 'thru hole' components so easy to fix and Blackstar's charges for a refurb are pretty low. But really the only things that failed were the pots. The valve seemed to last forever!
Dave.
Thanks Dave, I’ll keep a look out.
They seem to be "proper" valve jobs, not just there for decoration.
They are indeed "proper" in fact virtually all the distortion comes from the two valve sections. Some naysayers have looked at 'robbed' (not by me!) schematics and said " Ugh! Just a simple 'king diode clipper!" Wrong. The circuit is a level booster with diode FEEDBACK. A poor man's compressor if you will and its purpose is to prevent excessive drive to the valve. You can have too much distortion.
Dave.
This is sounding even better Dave, especially the compression bit.
Dave, do you have the schematic of the dept 10 dual drive? i need it for a problem in te power section
I do not friend but even if I did it is not in my gift to post them to all and sundry. I no longer have any commercial interest in the company but would not do anything to 'help' the competition ("Buggers" are you reading this?)
I do have a good deal of schematics and test information but it is well out of date now. I will help with such information as bias voltages for those qualified to set them, always with the caveat that there are serious HT voltages in the amps. Even the modest HT-5 runs close to 400V and so can be dangerous. The HT is pretty well insulated from casual shock but a determined numpty could kill themselves!
Similarly there will be close to 300V DC in the Dept 10 and although you would have to be very stupid to 'get it across you' it would bloody hurt.
As I mentioned above, Blackstar have an excellent service dept' and their charges are very reasonable.
Meant to say but this might be better 'stand alone'?
I actually believe that schematics etc should be freely available* especially these days when we must repair as much equipment as we can. However that is not Blackstar's view (nor of many companies) and I respect that. The guitar electronics market is a very competitive one and Blackstar are a relatively small player in it. Several of their designs have been ripped off though I don't know the internal details (Behringer keep their schemos close to their chest as well!)
*'Back in the day' many companies pasted a schematic in the back of their radios etc and more professional equipment came with a full service manual...Fork! Nagra even supplied spare transistors!
