Xvive U3 Wireless Mic system Issues

[techdude]

Hi Guys,

I have a Xvive U3 wireless mic system, which is used with a Shure SM58 and a Bose S1 Portable PA for busking. I am finding that there is a lot less volume through the Bose S1 when the SM58 is used with the Xvive wireless system compared to using a standard XLR cable with the SM58. Do other people also find that this is the case? Also, although I am not getting drop outs with Xvive system, I do find that the volume available through the Bose S1 seems to vary from one day to another? I can't find any obvious explanation for this, is this also something that other folks find when using wireless mic systems with a portable PA? Many thanks in advance!

[zenguitar]

Clearly, you are able to set up and use an XLR cable.

Why on earth are you using a wireless mic system? A cable is far more reliable, far less to go wrong, and the professional choice.

Unless a wireless microphone is absolutely essential to your act, there's no reason to use one whatsoever. Problem solved.

Andy

[resistorman]

My thought is that since it uses wifi frequencies you are going to get massive interference from every router and phone around you. It's a wonder it works at all.

[Mike Stranks]

Welcome!

The type of radio mic you are using is fine in some situations... I have several sets which I use mainly work for video work. They all work well and I can use several at the same time without problems.

BUT I think the key word in what you have said is 'busking'.

There is a body of opinion that says that these systems tend to work less well outside than in... and I've seen videos from people I respect that demonstrate this.

Plus you're doubtless in a town or city centre - otherwise not much point in busking!

There will be many 'systems' in your vicinity, all using the same frequencies as your radio system: shops, restaurants, businesses - some using several different routers for different applications. Then you've got all the people using their phones and tablets on wifi platforms. Your system is battling for space - sometimes unsuccessfully - in this crowded environment.

I can see the attraction of using wireless, but in your situation I'd suggest you switch to a UHF system... come back here if you need advice on that as you're then into the area of legal and illegal frequencies, possibly needing a licence etc etc. If you're thinking of going down that route one of the key things we need to know is in what country you're busking... different places, different regulations...

I hope that's been helpful; good luck with the busking!

[Wonks]

You’ve bought a system with a fixed output gain and a simple 2-position input gain switch. You’ve traded compactness for versatility.

I trust the transmitter is on the mic setting.

Looking at the specs the ‘line’ setting is just a -10dB pad on the ‘mic’ value. You’d normally expect around a 30dB difference.

The receiver input impedance is 13k ohms, which is very much a typical line input impedance. A normal mic input impedance would be lower, maybe 1.5k to 2k ohms.

So to me it looks more like a line level signal transmitter than a mic one, which is why the output signal is so low. I may be wrong, but something says I’m probably not.

If you can, I’d send it back and get something that is designed for dynamic mics. Check those specs first!

[techdude]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the helpful responses. I am based in the U.K., so no problem from a licensing standpoint in using 2.4GHz wireless mic systems, but might be problematic with UHF systems.

The transmitter is on the ‘mic’ setting rather than line. I take the point about competing with other wifi and 2.4GHz systems, I guess this might explain why it works better in some locations than others, and works better on some days than others.

I have had the XVive since 2019, I get the impression that it has lost some gain since it was new, however that is difficult to quantify. I previously used it with a QTX QR12 portable PA, and have now switched to a Bose S1, which is smaller and lighter than the QTX, with a less powerful built in amplifier, so any loss in gain thro the wireless mic system is more problematic.
As for sending it back, I have been in touch with XVive customer support. They do not have any service facilities in the U.K., which I find is very poor, their suggestion was to buy a new XVive!!!

I am wondering if I might be better off buying a better quality Sennheiser wireless mic system, (the XVive system was around £150 in 2019, now around £180, the Sennheiser system is around £275), although that may also be subject to variable interference?

[Mike Stranks]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the helpful responses. I am based in the U.K., so no problem from a licensing standpoint in using 2.4GHz wireless mic systems, but might be problematic with UHF systems.

I am wondering if I might be better off buying a better quality Sennheiser wireless mic system, (the XVive system was around £150 in 2019, now around £180, the Sennheiser system is around £275), although that may also be subject to variable interference?

Para 1: If you get a system which operates on Channel 70 (863-865 MHz) they are licence-free in UK and most of Europe. Any other (legal) channel then you'll need a licence. If you're going to get a UHF system then best to invest in one that's tunable, rather than fixed-frequency, just in case some other busker is also using a Channel 70 system just around the corner!

Para 2: Which Sennheiser system are you considering? Audio-Technica also do some good radio-mic systems, as do Trantec...

[techdude]

The Sennheiser wireless mic system I was looking at is the XSW-D, however I do wonder if this is also likely to be affected by 2.4GHz interference.

The strange thing I am finding with the X-Vive system is that it only seems to lose gain, I am not getting drop outs or distortion, I am wondering if the potential interference is likely to only affect the gain in the wireless link, rather than drop outs or distortion.

[Mike Stranks]

Thanks for that...

I have three XSW-Ds - but one of these failed just out of warranty!

They're also in the 2.4 GHz band so jostling with everything else that sits there.

I've found the Thomann 'own brand' UHF sets to be good value and I've installed them at several sites with no problems.

I've also installed/used several Trantec S4 systems and Audio-Technica 2000 series. Sennhesier equivalent is probably XSW-1

[techdude]

Hi Guys, Thanks for all the very helpful suggestions. I have now tried using different channels on the X-Vive wireless mic system, and found it made little difference. I am now convinced that the most likely cause of the variable loss of gain is interference from other 2.4GHz systems and devices, and I suspect that other 2.4GHz wireless systems such as the Sennheiser may also have the same problem. Trying a UHF wireless system is still an option, however, for now I have settled on plugging the X-Vive receiver into a portable ART mic pre-amp, which then connects to the Bose S1. That gives me up to 30db of gain into the Bose S1, which senses the ART as a line level input, and gives a very significant volume boost.

[Wonks]

I really don’t thing interference would cause loss of gain. You’re dealing with digital comms, all 1s and 0s. As long as there is a sufficient S/N ratio, the signal will get through. Too low a S/N ratio and you’ll get packets starting to drop out and get distortion, but it won’t make the signal quieter.

As I’ve said before, from what I could see from the specs, the Xvive 3 is really a line-level device. So it’s good if you want to create a wireless link from a mixer to an active speaker, but not for using from a mic to a mixer.

[Wonks]

The maximum input signal level in 'mic' mode is 2.8v. So 0dBFS is 2.8v or about +8.9dBV and 11.2dBu. The maximum output level is also 2.8v/+8.9dBV/11.2dBu.

So there is no signal amplification at all in the transmitter. In theory what goes in should come out. A lot of other wireless systems have a gain control and can boost the signal level.

If the output from the Xvive is less than the output from the mic connected to the same input on the S1 with an XLR to XLR cable, then there is something wrong with the Xvive system. According to the specs it should be the same.

The output from an SM58 in use is around -56dBV for 1 Pa, which equates to a 94dB SPL, so around a decent singing level.

Which means that the SM58 signal is roughly 65dB below the 0dBFS level of the A/D converter/ The Xvive U3 is quoted as having a signal/noise level of 110dB, but that's at full input signal level. With an SM58, that signal/noise ratio drops to 45dB, which isn't very good and which reinforces my belief that the U3 is being wrongly marketed as a wireless mic system, it really is a line-level system.

Surprisingly the capacitor/condenser mic version of the U3 uses the same signal levels. I know stage capacitor mics have slightly hotter outputs than dynamic mics, but probably by no more than another 10dB maximum, so you'd still get a poor signal/noise ratio. And that's if you got any sound at all, as the instruction manual shows ± phantom voltage being applied across pins 2 and 3, with no connection to pin 1! (+48v are normally applied to pins 2 and 3 and 0v is connected to pin 1).

[techdude]

I really don’t thing interference would cause loss of gain. You’re dealing with digital comms, all 1s and 0s. As long as there is a sufficient S/N ratio, the signal will get through. Too low a S/N ratio and you’ll get packets starting to drop out and get distortion, but it won’t make the signal quieter.

As I’ve said before, from what I could see from the specs, the Xvive 3 is really a line-level device. So it’s good if you want to create a wireless link from a mixer to an active speaker, but not for using from a mic to a mixer.

At first I also thought that interference would not cause loss of gain between the V-Vive transmitter and receiver,however because the loss of gain varies from day to day and location to location, I have come to the conclusion that their is either a variable and intermittent fault in the X-Vive, or it is being affected by interference. One thing that does not help is that X-Vive do not have any service or repair facility in the UK.

[techdude]

Thanks for your reply. I have found that the signal level coming through the X-Vive from the SM58 is significantly less than if the SM58 is connected via XLR cable. I know several other wireless mic users have also found that to be the case with several makes of wireless mic systems.

The X-Vive transmitter has a mic/line switch. I have, of course, been careful to keep it switched to mic, however as an experiment I did try switching it to line and there was certainly much less gain arriving at the S1.

I have found that the level of signal loss varies from day to day, and location to location, and to some extent it can also be affected by which of the 6 channel choices on the transmitter/receiver. are selected, all this suggests to me that it is basically an interference problem. As I mentioned in my previous post, using an ART mobile battery powered pre-amp between the X-Vive receiver and the Bose S1 has proved to be at least a work around for the time being.

[Bob Bickerton]

Late coming to this, but to answer an earlier question:

No problem using wireless mics with the Bose S1 if you use high quality and fit for purpose design. I use a Sennheiser G4 wireless system (DPA headset version but you can buy XLR mic options) and it’s never missed a beat and the sound quality is outstanding.

But you do get what you pay for………

Bob

[techdude]

Thanks for the recommendation on the Sennheiser G4. A few years ago I used to use a couple of the lavalier version for wireless mics for conference presenters, they worked perfectly, but the receiver was mains powered of course, thus they are not suitable for portable PAs for busking.

[Mike Stranks]

... but the receiver was mains powered of course, thus they are not suitable for portable PAs for busking.

... actually they're not precisely mains-powered - they need 12 volts, usually supplied through a power-pack/transformer arrangement.

I've used such systems many times when in the open-air and no mains present. I either got a supply from battery(ies) or used a Leisure Battery and an inverter... but, of course, that would add very significantly to weight/non-portability in a busking context.

There are good quality UHF systems available where both transmitter and receiver are powered via AAs or PP3s.

[zenguitar]

I ask again, what makes a wireless mic desirable for this busking use?

Unless wireless is solving a specific problem you are just adding a whole bunch of extra things to go wrong.

Andy

[Mike Stranks]

I ask again, what makes a wireless mic desirable for this busking use?

Unless wireless is solving a specific problem you are just adding a whole bunch of extra things to go wrong.

Andy

The OP can speak for himself, but for me it would be the lack of a trailing cable from the mic back to the amp. A legal nightmare if Joe Public catches their foot and takes a tumble...

The OP hasn't indicated if he's accompanying himself with an instrument, but even an amped guitar would have the cable 'tighter in' than an out-front mic...

[shufflebeat]

I ask again, what makes a wireless mic desirable for this busking use?

The OP can speak for himself, but for me it would be the lack of a trailing cable from the mic back to the amp. A legal nightmare if Joe Public catches their foot and takes a tumble...

I'm also quismical.



...would seem to be the obvious solution. Drop-outs are rare and batteries last a lifetime.

https://www.canford.co.uk/Products/39-0 ... ack-yellow

[Mike Stranks]

Don't always have the desired effect... (I've used them plenty of times)

Not unknown for the unobservant to trip over the cable-cover!

If there was no alternative but to have cables in the vicinity of the public's feet, I covered the covers completely with zebra tape and also used yellow warning signs. Not exactly the look one seeks when busking...

[shufflebeat]

I dunno, sounds "urban". I don't remember being massively aware of the aesthetic details when busking. I do remember it being bloody cold and a bit dangerous, not in a, "member of the public going on his/her arse" kind of way but rather a, "don't take expensive gear where little scrotes can grab it" scenario.

How times have changed.

Don't start me about card payments.

[Wonks]

In my experience it’s pretty rare for any member of the public to go near a busker on a street except to get close enough to put some money in the collection box/instrument case unless it’s really really busy.

Although it may happen, I’ve never seen a busker more than a couple of feet away from their amp. The feet on the mic stand are a much greater trip hazard than the mic lead, and a guitar lead more so than a mic lead. If people are walking between the busker and their amp, then there’s something wrong with their setup IMO.

Maybe if you’re a singing unicyclist then you need a wireless mic, but I’d always go wired if I could (if I ever went busking and used an amp).

[Mike Stranks]

Anyways... all somewhat of a side-issue...

The OP asked for advice about using a radio mic system with which he was having difficulties. We've sought to give that...

He wasn't doing anything wrong, just different...

'Wrong' should be highlighted and pointed-out as to why, with relevant reasons.
'Different' is... different, and someone's choice.

I compare it to someone asking is it better to use the M5/M4 or another route when driving from Gloucester to Abergavenny... In that situation, one doesn't respond, "Why on earth do you want to go there?"

[Wonks]

Unfortunately those battery-at-both-ends adapters all seem to be mis-sold as mic adapters, rather than the line adapters they really are.

I can’t find any so far that have mic/line switches at both ends, which would be necessary for overall unity gain if the transmitter had say a 40dB gain preamp with matching pad for line use.