The R8 is quite small [< A4 paper] so could be fiddly for detailed work.
You would need to study the manual and watch uTubes to be sure but I think the R8's Drum machine can use USER samples & loops. It did come with a free USB stick of drum files. The R24 is similar but has more tracks [3 banks of 8] would make for a more spacious workflow.
File exchange over USB is easy & in a standard format. The project header file is readable.
My R8 is just for jamming/practice, I use a DAW for detailed work
Have a look at the akai force. I'm quite fond of mine, it does 8 audio tracks with streaming plus unlimited midi tracks and is the closest thing I've found to a 'daw in a box'.
If you're looking for simplicity and hands on control, have you considered getting a control surface (something like an Akai MidiMix or Novation Launch Control) and setting up template tracks with simple EQ/compression in Reaper?
Thanks for the suggestions guys, always appreciative for the help
Looking like a competent pc/mini pc will need to be my first priority, it's hard to avoid on a low budget un all honesty. After that it will need to be a combination of my trackpad and possibly an akai mpd232 or something similar.
The Console 1 is something I'd love to try at some point but that will be way down the line I fear.
The Culprit wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:11 pm
Thanks for the suggestions guys, always appreciative for the help
Looking like a competent pc/mini pc will need to be my first priority, it's hard to avoid on a low budget un all honesty. After that it will need to be a combination of my trackpad and possibly an akai mpd232 or something similar.
The Console 1 is something I'd love to try at some point but that will be way down the line I fear.
I think this is all depending on how much portability you need. It is ironic that to make an ITB setup mimmick an OTB hdd recorder, you end up with more boxes, pc, monitor, mouse, keyboard, interface and possibly a controller. The monitor+mouse+keyboard situation could be alleviated by using a laptop, so you get a laptop+interface+controller set-up. A friend of mine who did mobile recording used a laptop with a 17” screen, he built a 24track system that all went in a custom 18” rack. I don’t need portability so I am going the miniPC route. I use a 16 faderport controller and use 24 track templates setup so that I always have piano on midi 1, bass on midi 2 and so on, and I have lead vox on audio track 1……you can guess the rest.
I have tried any number of otb solutions but they always mean having to compromise. I do like the immediacy of hdd recorders and will continue to research options. For the immediacy of recording I have fallen back on my trusty mobile phone, it’s always turned on, so 1 start camera 2 select video 3 press record. If only there was an app that for example allowed 4 track multitrack it’d be ideal, enough to get a basic track down for appraisal before transfer to DAW. The audio quality of many smartphones these days is quite acceptable. I have been trying to record classical guitar and could never get the sound I was looking for, then recorded on my trusty old Huawei and it sounded perfectly acceptable.
OneWorld wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:27 pm
I think this is all depending on how much portability you need. It is ironic that to make an ITB setup mimmick an OTB hdd recorder, you end up with more boxes, pc, monitor, mouse, keyboard, interface and possibly a controller. The monitor+mouse+keyboard situation could be alleviated by using a laptop, so you get a laptop+interface+controller set-up. A friend of mine who did mobile recording used a laptop with a 17” screen, he built a 24track system that all went in a custom 18” rack. I don’t need portability so I am going the miniPC route. I use a 16 faderport controller and use 24 track templates setup so that I always have piano on midi 1, bass on midi 2 and so on, and I have lead vox on audio track 1……you can guess the rest.
I have tried any number of otb solutions but they always mean having to compromise. I do like the immediacy of hdd recorders and will continue to research options. For the immediacy of recording I have fallen back on my trusty mobile phone, it’s always turned on, so 1 start camera 2 select video 3 press record. If only there was an app that for example allowed 4 track multitrack it’d be ideal, enough to get a basic track down for appraisal before transfer to DAW. The audio quality of many smartphones these days is quite acceptable. I have been trying to record classical guitar and could never get the sound I was looking for, then recorded on my trusty old Huawei and it sounded perfectly acceptable.
No portability required here, this would be purely for my own interests in trying to get to a good standard of engineering, with my own songs and those of a friend who writes but has no technical bone in his body.
Have you any suggestions for decent, affordable mini pc's? Going on an earlier post of yours ebay seems the best bet?
Mobile phones have always felt like purely a 'catching ideas' type deal to me, have never ever considered using anything from it for a 'proper' mix/recording. Interesting to hear you've got decent results from it!
Hi, have you considered the Tascam dp 24/32sd? The older versions which you can still pick up have midi if required.
I wanted to move away from computers and I have a dp32sd and it’s a joy to use.
You can move the tracks do a daw if you wish, and/or you can use outboard if you like on two sends. The onboard insert dynamics are very usable too tbh.
Best aspect for me though is the workflow. It keeps you creative.
The problem with those older recording workstations is the hard drives. HDDs don't last for ever and 5 years was generally the longest reliable given working life of a HDD around the time the AW1600 came out (though there will always be outliers that work for much longer).
To replace the 20 or 40MB IDE drive (if you can even get one) is a complicated business:
There are IDE to SATA adapters availble, but they are relatively large units and I doubt if there would be room inside to fit one, even if the AW1600 firmware could cope with the undoubtedly much larger HDD capacity (which it probably couldn't).
Even if you did find a working unit, there is always the danger it may not work for much longer, so you'd need to constantly back up any recordings over the USB interface to be safe.
Wonks wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:59 am
The problem with those older recording workstations is the hard drives. HDDs don't last for ever and 5 years was generally the longest reliable given working life of a HDD around the time the AW1600 came out (though there will always be outliers that work for much longer).
To replace the 20 or 40MB IDE drive (if you can even get one) is a complicated business:
There are IDE to SATA adapters availble, but they are relatively large units and I doubt if there would be room inside to fit one, even if the AW1600 firmware could cope with the undoubtedly much larger HDD capacity (which it probably couldn't).
Even if you did find a working unit, there is always the danger it may not work for much longer, so you'd need to constantly back up any recordings over the USB interface to be safe.
Wonks is right. True enough for the Yamaha, however the Tascam uses SD cards which is pretty nifty and might suit the OP.
The older recorders always seem to have some compromise like halving the number of channels if you record at 96k instead of 48k.
The AW1600 drops to 8 channels if you use 24bits rather than 16.
Older recorders also use a proprietry file format [simpler/faster to access?] so if you want to backup a project over USB, it has to be exported/converted to a special Windows compatible partition 1st. PITA !
I dug out my old AW4416 that's 22 years old, I'd kept it because I remember what a joy it was to use and I also remember what I paid for it and selling it was too painful for what it's worth today.
My aim was simple: to get away from the never ending OS updates and unreliability and distractions of recording music on a computer and that damn screen!
What I discovered using the AW was remembering the joy and the fun again. Feel creative? Hit the power on switch and she's ready to go. She's 22 years old, sounds great, works great, no updates required. It's such a joy to track that way, it doesn't get in the way, it doesn't distract and there's no temptation to check my email on it.
For me, I wanted to keep my daw for specific tasks like audio editing or some plugins I am fond of but the AW has Adat so I can fly audio out for fixing in Pro Tools and back in again and turn the computer off. To be honest, it's a pain point. I was working on a track last week, first time this year to get back to work on something and needed to fly the audio out. The AW was ready to rock but my mac had decided to make Air Play pro tools' audio interface for no reason at all (I only use that machine for music and it was working fine last time) and that my friends is why I hate computers because it took me half and hour of faffing about to figure out what the problem was killing my creativity and mood. There's just too many possibilities with computers for something to break.
But eventually I was able to get the audio fixed and back into the AW and I'm really liking the mixes I'm getting.
The AW allows me to use an Evo 16 as my front end avoiding the older Yamaha AW pres and that goes into the AW via adat so I have modern converters in the chain along with some Analogue Pre/comp on the way in. Recording at 24/48 and up to 16 channels, more than enough for me. I replaced the HD with an SSD, while it works it doesn't hold up when recording more than a few channels at once, not a problem as I work alone but a factor with modifying old tech.
So I'm with you Culprit, go get the model 16 or as others have said, the DP-24SD/32 or venture out to some older system like the AW4416 or it's smaller brothers, they are fab machines.
Mark my words, we'll see this market grow in the coming years and I hope Yamaha bring out a new AW range. Tascam, Zoom and Akai are certainly finding this market fruitful.
The Culprit wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:10 pm
Mike...I previously owned an R16 but found it too fiddly for mixing. I did try to use it as a controller but the laptop issue made thar redundant. The R20 looks good but too menu-ey for mixing I'd imagine.
I, too, owned a '16' and for what I needed it was OK. I didn't mix on it so had no need to go menu-delving...
In my constant quest to get simpler and simpler, I've been taking a closer look at the R20 over the last few days. Warning! Some of the videos are toe-curlingly awful - what's new!
BUT with the adoption of a touch-screen it does seem a lot easier to navigate than the baroque ways of the R16... Worth a closer look methinks!
Revisiting this thread to confirm that I'm going for a brand new laptop. As always it's appreciated hugely all the posts and advice given.
So I have a quote for a custom laptop from PCSpecialist.co.uk...here are screenshots of the spec. One last push if you please, to confirm or deny my assertion that this machine will easily handle my needs...(which are: Reaper based setup, modest amount of virtual instruments/plugins I.e. superior drummer or similar and mostly stock plugins, possibly a couple of nicer ones as a treat...24 tracks at the absolute maximum at any given time).
Hi! Resurrecting this thread because I can’t find any info online and Tascam isn’t much help.
Basically, I updated my firmware to 1.33 and then the compressors stopped working! Brought it to Tap Service as it’s no longer under warranty. They tested it and they’re all active and passing signal, light coming on. But when I load any song, none of the compressors light up or change the audio. It’s so frustrating as I love the one knob compressors!
Anyone else have this issue or have an idea how to get them working again? Tascam won’t let you go backwards with firmware and TAP did a hard reset (which they said is different than the factory reset in software).
I believe the channel compressors are only functional on the live (mic/line) inputs, not on the PC (USB) or MTR (SD card) inputs as selected with the channel Mode switches.
You mention "loading up a song" so I'm guessing you're using the PC or MTR modes...?
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Oh no, I thought it was like the Model 12, where you can use the compressors during playback in MTR mode…! Is that not possible with the 16? I recently upgraded. Or thought I did!
You only have to look at the block diagram in the Model 16 manual to see that the compressors only work on the input signals and the PC and MTR returns are fed into the channels after the compressor and insert points.
In the Model 12 block diagram, the PC and MTR return signals are definitely shown on the block diagram as before the compressor.
The Model 12 is fully digital, (and as the compressor is a digital one you need to make sure the loudest input signal doesn’t peak too hot as the compressor can’t help prevent A/D clipping).
The Model 16 is an analogue mixer with A/D and D/A converters bolted on to allow digital recording and playback per channel. The compressor is an analogue one and is before the split to the A/D converter, so it can offer some protection against A/D overload on loud transients.
The Model 16 is very much not a larger channel count version of the Model 12.
forumuser814240 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 1:54 am
Oh no, I thought it was like the Model 12, where you can use the compressors during playback in MTR mode…! Is that not possible with the 16? I recently upgraded. Or thought I did!
No, sorry. It's a different beast.
The manual is rather unclear about what channel functionality applies in the different modes, but the block diagram at the back makes it very obvious.
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Thanks so much for all your help! I’ve come to realize that they really are very different beasts… I wish Tascam manuals were more thorough, now I have both a Model 12 and a Model 16. I’ve been tracking with the 16 and then I bounce tracks for mixing on the 12.
I’ve been using Pro Tools since the 90s (started with an Audomedia III card if anyone remembers those!). Not looking at a screen has been a serious game changer, forces me to rely entirely on my ears. And things are sounding better as a result! I have to commit to takes, commit to sounds…
