Looking at the 'big composition' for 2023

[Martin Walker]

I recorded about an hour of whole cloth audio yesterday with the idea of curating a small section as a loop...

Well I learned a new concept today, but it makes perfect sense!

I cannot stake any claim to this technique, I've always assumed that was how generative compositions were done!

Oh yes, I do a lot of the same myself - it was the 'whole cloth' description that was new to me

[Ben Asaro]

I recorded about an hour of whole cloth audio yesterday with the idea of curating a small section as a loop...

Well I learned a new concept today, but it makes perfect sense!

I cannot stake any claim to this technique, I've always assumed that was how generative compositions were done!

Oh yes, I do a lot of the same myself - it was the 'whole cloth' description that was new to me

lol that's an oooooold phrase; dunno if it's uniquely American!

"Where did we get the phrase "cut from the whole cloth?" The phrase goes back to the 1400s and refers to a piece of broadcloth, something made from the original bolt of fabric and not cobbled together from bits or pieces or patched bits, like most of my clothes."

Well it outdates America by a few centuries.

[OneWorld]

Or "Or the Emporer's Got no Cloths" ?

[Ben Asaro]

Inching closer to something acceptable! https://audio.com/don-music/euclidean-melody-v3-1

[Eddy Deegan]

Hey Ben,

I've been a bit distracted of late with things outside the forum (nothing bad, just super busy) but I just caught up on the topic and listened to the latest audio you posted.

I absolutely love it! That ominous and evocative background growl is the perfect bed for the lead motif to develop against and to get so much movement into the same repeated drone and theme such that the end sounds so different to the start is wonderful.

Bravo mate and keep doing what you're doing because I think it's epic

[Arpangel]

This way of working is so hit and miss,

Totally agree!

you just have to keep going until something you like comes up, with my tape delay stuff, most of it gets binned, but it’s worth hanging on for the surprises.

For a stand-alone solo composition I might actually consider recording reams and reams of audio and then parse through it hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. However I'm actually trying to come up with a workflow that I can use in collaboration with other musicians and the hunt-and-peck method won't work, unfortunately.

I know what you mean, with my delay/looping system, it’s a bit like trying to steer a super tanker, things happen very slowly, change slowly, in a live situation with others I’m looking for something different, something agile, and responsive, capable of "turning on a dime"

[Ben Asaro]

Hey Ben,

I've been a bit distracted of late with things outside the forum (nothing bad, just super busy) but I just caught up on the topic and listened to the latest audio you posted.

I absolutely love it! That ominous and evocative background growl is the perfect bed for the lead motif to develop against and to get so much movement into the same repeated drone and theme such that the end sounds so different to the start is wonderful.

Bravo mate and keep doing what you're doing because I think it's epic

Thanks, Eddy! And thanks for always being so supportive!

[Ben Asaro]

I know what you mean, with my delay/looping system, it’s a bit like trying to steer a super tanker, things happen very slowly, change slowly, in a live situation with others I’m looking for something different, something agile, and responsive, capable of "turning on a dime"

Yes, this, 1,000%!!!

[Ben Asaro]

Today's testing will be to take a basic loop using the table from yesterday and start turning it into something I can use for musique concrete.

I also quickly realized a flaw in the table yesterday: I didn't put in a conversion to hex for the NerdSeq. This meant I had to do constant calculations in my head, which is not equipped for maths.

So I revised the table today and added a column that shows the number of pulses, as well.

[Martin Walker]

Ben - have you ever explored any of the Conway's Game Of Life' generative sequencers? Your most recent screenshot is starting to remind me of such creations:

Here's Newscool for NI's Reaktor:



...and Reason's Life Generative Sequencer:

[Martin Walker]

Inching closer to something acceptable! https://audio.com/don-music/euclidean-melody-v3-1

Woo-hoo - now THIS is REALLY coming together as a believably human composition worthy of the minimalist composers

[Folderol]

Very dramatic!

[Ben Asaro]

Ben - have you ever explored any of the Conway's Game Of Life' generative sequencers? Your most recent screenshot is starting to remind me of such creations:

Here's Newscool for NI's Reaktor:



...and Reason's Life Generative Sequencer:

I have not but I will look into it — that looks sufficiently bonkers.

[Ben Asaro]

Inching closer to something acceptable! https://audio.com/don-music/euclidean-melody-v3-1

Woo-hoo - now THIS is REALLY coming together as a believably human composition worthy of the minimalist composers

Thanks, Martin!

[Ben Asaro]

Very dramatic!

Lol yes — perhaps too much so!

[Ben Asaro]

Time for another update! This one is both big and small —

With the method sorted out, I was stuck waiting for a thematic hook to wrap the composition in. Since I started writing ‘serious’ electronic music, each piece has been based on a combination of mechanical and theoretical themes, basically being very programic, I suppose. Or perhaps a tone poem? In any event, for this piece I had the how but not the what of the composition.

It was getting frustrating as the weeks dragged on getting no closer to a concept that I liked. I had pretty much decided that this was a great exercise but that was that and it was time to move on to more fertile pastures when the EUREKA moment hit!

It came out of an online debate about 12 hour clocks vs 24 hour clocks of all things lol. That led me down a rabbit hole of online research and then a rough concept hit me: a composition divided into two parts, one about daytime activities and one about nighttime activities. Simple! But enough of a hook to visualize the chord types and motives in my head instantly!

So we’re back on track, I consider pre production to be complete, and writing and recording will commence this weekend!

[Ben Asaro]

Almost done recording the first micro-composition. Just a couple more layers to go!

[Arpangel]

I like this clock idea, day and night, got great potential.
But Ben, you do realise you’re heading into "Concept Album" territory, and that will require a cape of some sort.

[Ben Asaro]

Cape: check

[Eddy Deegan]

Almost done recording the first micro-composition. Just a couple more layers to go!

I'm looking forward to this

[Ben Asaro]

UPDATE: the process of jam, record, iterate, has begun, and I was able to piece together about 21 minutes of music! Yay!

However -- I'm not really 'happy ' with it. Boo!

When I say 'happy' I am more inclined to use the word satisfied, because the music itself is just fine. And when I listen back, it sounds fine; that is to say, it feels like it didn't push any personal boundaries. I think in part this is because I returned to a rather comfortable place and was going back over ground I've tread before. I feel like this doesn't fulfill my mission statement for this piece to be made up of microcompositions using wafeforms that can be pushed into shapes and materials and then sequenced. Instead, I found myself laying down a long blank layer on the transcription looper, and very methodically adding layers on top. I barely used the live loopers as a result because the Subharmonicon and Mother-32 were doing a good chunk of the heavy lifting for me. So, familiar sounds in a familiar context doing familiar things.

Here's what I recorded, https://audio.com/don-music/ante-meridiem-v13

After listening back a few times I realised this is not where I want it to be. However, that's part of the process, right? We try things, break them down, iterate, and try again. And hope that it gets better with each iteration!

The first thing I did was address the problem of relying on old familiar sounds and techniques by limiting myself to a single skiff and banning the use of everything else. What I put together is a clock source, step sequencer, quantizer/utility, EG, VGA, two VOCOs, two filters, and outputt module. I juuuuust fits in 104hp. If I want to change anything, I will either swap modules or use the Disting. But I want this to be self contained.



If I had smaller VCOs I would use them, but a) I don't and b) the SE VCOs have been WOEFULLY underutilized. Now's their turn in the spotlight.

Ejecting things like Vector Space, Clouds, NerdSeq, Mother -32, and Subharmonicon (among other oft-used modules) really got me focused on sound shaping and the process. The plan will be to really lean into my original goal and build up from very small, stacked loops.

I have the skiff a brief spin last night but that was mostly to luxuriate in the sound of the SE oscillators, they sound SOOO GOOD. Today I hope to have time to actually work on music with the setup, or at the very least get lost in some preparatory exploration.

[Ben Asaro]

Started basic experimentation today, https://photos.app.goo.gl/LC7C4NuQj6BMgDnMA

[Ben Asaro]

Another update!

Unfortunately, the single 104hp skiff didn't work out, it was a little too limited for what I am trying to do. After a bit of experimenting with it, I made a list of things I want/need for the skiff and realized that unless I buy a bunch of complex modules, the only way I will be able to make this work is to expand it to 6U.

My list is:
:: No Moog (nothing against the Subharmonicon or Mother-32 but I feel like they are becoming crutches and stifling experimentation)
:: The ability to create intentional, generative, or improvised melodies
:: Minimal percussion (2 modules, max)
:: The ability to create granular drones and wavetables
:: LOTS of decentralized mixing ability as well as a crossfader

This is what I came up with after an initial setup on Friday night and a few practice runs,

On Friday, I explored the instrument was pretty happy but replaced a couple of modules. I had no agenda here, just exploring to see what the skiff is capable of. On Saturday, I did more exploration and more swapping. In the end I removed Vedctor Space, 2hp Pluck, Dynamix, Branches, and the SEM filter and replaced them with the dual linear VCA (for CV modulation), SEQs, 2hp TM, and Quad VCA.

Yesterday (Sunday) was a breakthrough day. I started off just messing about with sine waves and a generative melody, then added a wave folder, slowed everything down, and reversed the loop I recorded ... and eureka! Just like that I was on my way towards sounds I am excited about!

I recorded my jam yesterday for documentation purposes but I think I finally have a structure worked out in my head that will work!

An issue I discovered overall is that a) I prefer using low pass ladder filters the most and b) low pass ladder filters add a LOT of mud!! So I ordered a Shakmat HiPass to clean up anything that's not a bass instrument. It's supposed to arrive tomorrow and then I can get down to serious work again.

Stay tuned!

[Eddy Deegan]

Here's what I recorded, https://audio.com/don-music/ante-meridiem-v13

After listening back a few times I realised this is not where I want it to be. However, that's part of the process, right? We try things, break them down, iterate, and try again. And hope that it gets better with each iteration!

It might not be where you want it to be but it's really good stuff and whichever direction it's going sounds right up my street

[Ben Asaro]

Aw, thanks, Eddy!