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[Arpangel]

Thank you. Recording in our tiny place is not an option. There’s already 1000 studios here recording rap and R&B artists. Punk has always been my first love and I know there are some good bands that would love to have their stuff recorded for free.

I’ll never make money on it but would love to be able to contribute to a scene.

HHHmmmmmm?
Live sound, live recording, of bands, but that still requires equipment of some sort. Just go to gigs, offer your services, for free, see if anyone takes you up on it, free live recordings.
I did this early on, and a few people took me up on it.

[Sam Spoons]

Yup, punk is fundamentally live music so no posh studio premises needed. You will need a mixer or interface that can record a minimum of 8 inputs, drums (kick and overhead), 2 or 3 guitars/keys, bass and two vox). You'll need a couple of DIs and mics for the guitar amps and drums*, plus a few cables and a cheap laptop (nothing fancy needed for tracking/mixing 8 live instrument/vocal mics/DIs.

Record them in their rehearsal space and mix at home on headphones and you're all set.

* Use the band's own vocal mics to keep costs down then a few used SM57s for the instruments will get the job done.

[Arpangel]

Yup, punk is fundamentally live music so no posh studio premises needed. You will need a mixer or interface that can record a minimum of 8 inputs, drums (kick and overhead), 2 or 3 guitars/keys, bass and two vox). You'll need a couple of DIs and mics for the guitar amps and drums*, plus a few cables and a cheap laptop (nothing fancy needed for tracking/mixing 8 live instrument/vocal mics/DIs.

Record them in their rehearsal space and mix at home on headphones and you're all set.

* Use the band's own vocal mics to keep costs down then a few used SM57s for the instruments will get the job done.

If you really want to offer something different, then you could record the whole band using just two mic's, straight into a portable recorder, or cheap interface and laptop, a pair of phones, and that’s it.
I’ve known great recordings done like this, with a stereo pair, it’s a very "live" feel, but it tends to suit that type of music.

[James Perrett]

Live sound, live recording, of bands, but that still requires equipment of some sort. Just go to gigs, offer your services, for free, see if anyone takes you up on it, free live recordings.
I did this early on, and a few people took me up on it.

You don't need much gear these days if you find a venue with a digital desk. Behringer X32 desks all come with a USB connection which plugs straight into a computer and allows you to individually record up to 32 channels. Allen and Heath are similar. However, if you want to capture a better sound than everyone else, make sure you add a pair of audience mics which will give you far more atmosphere than the desk channels on their own.

A laptop plus a stand-alone stereo recorder is all you need. Read the desk manual thoroughly so that you know where to connect and what you will be receiving.

Like Tony, I started off doing this in a primitive way back in the late 70s and had a few bands ask if I could come back and record them again. I also always made a habit of recording the other bands playing the gig if possible - you never know who might make progress in the music business.

[MOF]

Yup, punk is fundamentally live music so no posh studio premises needed.

I beg to differ, the Sex Pistols recorded at AIR and Wessex studios with top flight engineers and producers.

[Sam Spoons]

I didn't say you couldn't record punk in a posh studio, just that you didn't need to. And they were hardly your 'standard' punk band though were they*? The kind of bands the OP is thinking of recording are pub/bar bands who's natural habitat is the small bar or rehearsal studio/garage.

*The sex pistols could play too (apart from JR maybe) and very well giving a bit of a lie to the 'get together in your garage with a couple of mates, cant play? doesn;t matter do it anyway' ethos.

[Laggard]

So I feel like I may have figured out something I can do. Won’t pay any bills but I’d be providing a service and creating something.

So I pick up a digital eight track recorder and some microphones. Find someone who would like their set recorded in their practice space and I’m set. Mix it at home and output to whatever format they want.

I already mentioned recording shows at clubs but someone mentioned it’s just easier for bands to record off the board.

[James Perrett]

I already mentioned recording shows at clubs but someone mentioned it’s just easier for bands to record off the board.

People still pay me to do it - because they want to know that the job is being done properly. Plus, as mentioned earlier, I make sure I have a decent crowd/ambient recording to capture the whole atmosphere of the gig.

If you go for your own setup recording bands at their rehearsals then I would also go with a laptop and audio interface rather than an 8 track recorder. A suitable refurbished laptop can be found for around £200 or less, a copy of Reaper costs £50 and an audio interface like a Behringer UMC1820 is just over £200 brand new. This gives you 8 inputs which can be extended to 16 inputs for another £150.

[Sam Spoons]

WRT recording bands in clubs, the live sound guy may not be interested in recording a multitrack* (and especially not mixing it afterwards) even when the board has USB multitrack capability** and then it has to be mixed. A stereo recording of the desk main outs is trivially simple with most digital desks but will be compromised*** compared to a bespoke mix either done live to stereo or later from a multitrack.

* I have done this using the channel direct outputs from an analogue desk (it was in 2000) to an Akai DR8 recorder.

** In the X32 the USB card can be swapped out for various other options, not all of which have USB recording output so check before going this route.

*** The sound from the backline will affect the balance of the mix resulting, at best, in the guitars and bass being low in the PA mix. The drums (and even the amps) may not even be miked up in a small club/bar.

[MOF]

As an added bonus you could video the gig (a locked off wide shot on a tripod) using an iPhone and then replace the camera sound with the mixed audio.

[Arpangel]

Yup, punk is fundamentally live music so no posh studio premises needed.

I beg to differ, the Sex Pistols recorded at AIR and Wessex studios with top flight engineers and producers.

I read that the remit from the Pistols was to treat the session like a live gig, playing through a PA, very simple mic set-up.

[MOF]

I read that the remit from the Pistols was to treat the session like a live gig, playing through a PA, very simple mic set-up.

Here are two articles, one from SOS, that tell a different story. There was a lot of hype back then, yes they were kicking back from the very self indulgent aspects of prog rock but equally they wanted a record that sounded good on the radio and that meant recording in good studios with engineers that knew how to get that exciting sound.
There have been records that used a PA system but they tended to be for playing back the multitrack and recording the room ambience to add to the mix.

https://routepublishing.wordpress.com/2 ... g-session/

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... chy-uk?amp

[OneWorld]

I read that the remit from the Pistols was to treat the session like a live gig, playing through a PA, very simple mic set-up.

Here are two articles, one from SOS, that tell a different story. There was a lot of hype back then, yes they were kicking back from the very self indulgent aspects of prog rock but equally they wanted a record that sounded good on the radio and that meant recording in good studios with engineers that knew how to get that exciting sound.
There have been records that used a PA system but they tended to be for playing back the multitrack and recording the room ambience to add to the mix.

https://routepublishing.wordpress.com/2 ... g-session/

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... chy-uk?amp

I never was convinced by all that 'go through a PA' bulloney, it's like Boris Johnson's shabby chic haircut, he has a top stylist devoted to getting that unmade bed look.

And the Pisstols, like many artistes, reach for the Hype Fader and slide it up as far as it will go

[Laggard]

I already mentioned recording shows at clubs but someone mentioned it’s just easier for bands to record off the board.

People still pay me to do it - because they want to know that the job is being done properly. Plus, as mentioned earlier, I make sure I have a decent crowd/ambient recording to capture the whole atmosphere of the gig.

If you go for your own setup recording bands at their rehearsals then I would also go with a laptop and audio interface rather than an 8 track recorder. A suitable refurbished laptop can be found for around £200 or less, a copy of Reaper costs £50 and an audio interface like a Behringer UMC1820 is just over £200 brand new. This gives you 8 inputs which can be extended to 16 inputs for another £150.

So I have a laptop that will handle Reaper. All I would need is an interface, some cables and mics? Seems to low a barrier for entry.

[Mike Stranks]

So I have a laptop that will handle Reaper. All I would need is an interface, some cables and mics? Seems to low a barrier for entry.

Well, there's mics and mics! Don't skimp on quality and seek advice for what to buy.

Get decent mic stands too; don't let the 'talent' adjust 'em; they nearly always just yank the boom and don't bother releasing the clutch.

You've not mentioned some reasonably respectable monitors and or/mixing headphones. 'Bargain basement' options for both should be avoided.

Some of us prefer open-back headphones for mixing and closed-back for tracking. You'll need good closed-back with good acoustic isolation if you're in the room with a band while recording.

... you might want to think about two or three DI boxes - better for connecting some instruments rather than miking a cab - and you get better isolation too, if that's important.

And IF you're going to mix on speakers then you need to think about where you'll be doing that. You can do it in any old room, but it really is a good idea to use some acoustic treatment - even a little helps - so you're doing something to guard against your mixing decisions being compromised by the effect the room is having on the sound.

Good luck!

[Arpangel]

Put the most money you can afford into the microphones, it always pays off, a cheap mic may be OK for some things, but if you want consistent predictably good results in a wide range of applications, then buy the best you can.
Mic's are an area where skimping can be heard, a cheap miic will always be, a cheap mic.
As for interface and monitors, budget stuff is fine, just don’t go bargain basement, anything "reasonable" monitor wise will do, I use a Behringer interface, for instance, no one will know the difference unless your into spending $1,000 or more.
My comments here are based on your situation, financially, of course, get the best monitors etc if you can afford them, but that doesn’t apply here.

[Sam Spoons]

So I have a laptop that will handle Reaper. All I would need is an interface, some cables and mics? Seems to low a barrier for entry.

Don't underestimate the cost of mics, stands and cables, as Arpy and Mike have said good mics do make a difference but the industry standard SM57 will do guitars (acoustic and electric), vocals, drums and a fair few other things. A dedicated kick mic is better than a 57 but a 57 will work ok, they'll even work as overheads for a lo-fi kind of sound. Just beware of buying them too cheaply as there are a lot of fake 57's and 58's. It is possible to both record and mix on closed back headphones (something like Sennheiser HP25s are not too expensive) but some good open back cans will certainly make for better mixes.

In the end what you are really selling is your expertise and knowledge, that's where the barrier for entry is a bit higher but, while you'll never stop learning, it is possible to get to a useful level with a bit of practice.

Finally, 70% of being a good sound engineer is having excellent people skills, polish yours and don't underestimate their value.

[Laggard]

I figured the biggest expense would be cables, mics and stands. It’s going to be all used 57s and 58s as that’s all I can afford.

[Arpangel]

Unfortunately, and I’ve experienced it too, there’s a lot of snobbery in this business, on both sides of the glass.
If you’re a commercial outfit, then people need confidence in you, if you turn up with a couple Neumann 87’s and stuff in shiny flight cases, people will think, yeah, it’s going to be fine, if you turn up with some SM57’s in a carrier bag (like I did once) they’ll look down their noses at you, and think, shit, can this guy deliver? we’re paying money for this.
This is why large outfits base their equipment buying decisions sometimes on good "industry standard" stuff, that people recognise, that looks good too!
But to a large extent it’s the guy not the gear, so you’ll have to work extra hard, and be very ingenious to make sure you get good results, it can be done.

[James Perrett]

I figured the biggest expense would be cables, mics and stands. It’s going to be all used 57s and 58s as that’s all I can afford.

I'm going to put a good word in for the budget drum mic sets that you can buy from the likes of CPC and other dealers. While they may not be quite as good as the Sennheiser equivalent, they are very good for the money. The individual mics can also be used on a variety of other sources.

[Sam Spoons]

Yes, I have a similar kit myself and it's probably 85% as good as the 'proper' mics I used when I was still working live sound.

[Laggard]

Thanks for all your help. Was offered help by a couple people who then ghosted me. Oh well.

[The Red Bladder]

So here I am again and I have read through the thread and a few things stand out. I'll start with the obvious -

So I have a laptop that will handle Reaper. All I would need is an interface, some cables and mics? Seems to low a barrier for entry.

And that is why everybody and their mothers-in-law are doing it!

Mics - what someone stated earlier about needing shiney U87s and other expensive mics making you are 'professional' is true. We bought a pair of M149s and other 'signature' bits of kit for that very reason. In economics, it is called 'The Snob Effect' and is found in EVERY market, from guitars to taxis, from sawmills to sausages.

One customer came to us for a dry drum recording. When asked why he chose us, he said that it was because we had a Lexicon 960L (at the time, the best money could buy). He neither wanted or needed that reverb - he just wanted to record in a room that had one! Crazy, I know - but that's how people are!

Google the words Tom Petty Hamburg Rockpalast and you will get a 2.5hr TV show in the famous Rockpalast series. The mic flight-case went missing and every mic except the drum mics (stored with the drums) had to be replaced - so the sound crew went to a local music store and bought about 15 SM57s. The sound is superb!

Or as they used to say on the old Winston cigarettes ad in the 60s "It's not how long you make it, it's how you make it long!"

The reality is that you cannot get rich or even become mildly affluent by recording or mixing other people's music. Most of the time, one cannot even hope to live from it.

The most credited engineer on Planet Earth (a friend BTW) is someone nobody here has heard of. He has recorded four or five major R Stones projects, umpteen Tina Turners, M.Jackson, Rammstein, Sting, Nick Mason, Roger Waters, Miles Davis, John Mayall, Depeche Mode, Genesis, Motörhead, Anastacia, Queen, Hans Zimmer, Dire Straits - and those are the ones that spring to my feeble mind.

But nobody here has ever heard of him. He lives in a rented house and is certainly not rich! The only person I knew who made it to a few million only on the back of being an audio engineer was Bruce Swedien. All the others cite as being famous engineers earned their money primarily as producers, i.e. they had a finger in the pie.

Or as Quincy Jones once put it "The money's in the music!"

As for most DIY'ed music being garbage, I tend to agree.

[Arpangel]

Unfortunately, what Mr Bladder says is largely true.
And yes, most of the home produced music I hear is total s**t I’m not mincing my words, as for my home produced music that’s probably what a lot of people think about it too, I have no clue. Based on how much money it’s made me over the years recording it and playing it live, I couldn’t even go out on a good one night piss-up based on todays beer prices with the money I’ve earned from it.
Listen to George Martin's Desert Island Discs on YouTube, he says a lot of honest things about music, and recording.
Bladder is right, musicians these days think exactly like you Laggard, they get a laptop, and some cheap gear, and off they go, but the results will be poor, and average at best, technically, and musically.
Bladder was right again, his story about the Lexicon, as a studio you have to give people a reason to come to you, why do they want my place over all the other "average" studios out there? It’s not like the old days, when studios good and bad, had people queuing up, simply because we didn’t have laptops and bedroom studios back then.
There’s a studio called Vintage Keys Studio, I want to go there to record, why? He’s off on a head start above other places for me, I have loads of reasons to go there, he’s got a lot of old gear I like, recording stuff, and instruments, a huge collection, he’s got a nice Steinway piano, plus, he’s a cool guy, with sone very interesting ideas himself, regarding engineering and music, in short, his place is unique, and he is unique.
Bottom line is, you need an edge, something that others haven’t got, it can be gear, a location, your personality, your unrivalled knowledge about how to record bag pipes! anything that gives people a reason to choose "you"