Our PTZ cameras in the church livestream setup are connected to an ATEM mini with HDMI cables. But camera B is on a 15m HDMI run and right at the limit of length for HDMI.
We’ve recently started getting camera B dropping out, in exactly the way poor HDMI does.
I was watching a video on YouTube where a guy was setting up a livestream studio for a Formula 1 channel and he was using HDMI connections to an ATEM mini but had specified fibre optic HDMI cables over 30+ metres.
Anyone had experience of these? Are there brands I should look for?
Cheers
Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
Re: Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
No experience with that particular solution, but I've sent HDMI over long distances for vision mixing setups at my last job using runs of Cat6 with converters at each end. The occasional signal drop did occur, but I've a feeling that was more to do with the quality of the particular converters rather than solution as a whole - they were bought in a bit of a hurry by someone else!
The ICT team took the same approach with slightly nicer boxes to retrofit a wall-mounted HDMI input to a projector that was mounted miles away and it never had any issues as far as I'm aware. I can't remember the brand of the thing unfortunately...
The ICT team took the same approach with slightly nicer boxes to retrofit a wall-mounted HDMI input to a projector that was mounted miles away and it never had any issues as far as I'm aware. I can't remember the brand of the thing unfortunately...
Re: Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
Hi Mark
I'm exploring this issue m'self at the moment... an upcoming live-link where I'll need a camera some way from the switcher...
1) You can get signal boosters, which seem to do the trick, for peanuts. Eg:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134364167964
(I've bought one, but not had a chance to try yet.)
2) The next step up is this type of booster:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394418944460
(No idea what these are like)
3) Then there are the cat5/6 link systems. These are used a lot by fully pro suppliers of AV facilities for prestigious events. If going that route, I'd probably see the range available from CPC -although they are very widely available.
We use these cat5/6 distribution systems at our church, in conjunction with a splitter, to route the HDMi from the 'control' point to a large video screen for the congregation and a separate screen for those 'on stage'. Works faultlessly.
4) The final option that I know of is wireless. That's the one I shall probably pursue, as trailing cables at 'my' event are really not on. All sorts of prices, but I thought I might check out these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144969038204
but if you've got cash to splash, then something like this might be more appropriate:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313993955508 ... wTFNifONg
My concern about wireless is the fact that many are in the WiFi band. That said, the cheaper set I've highlighted is in 5.8 GHz territory.
(Just done a search... plenty of fibre-optic HDMI systems available, but much more expensive than the cat 5/6 route...)
I'm exploring this issue m'self at the moment... an upcoming live-link where I'll need a camera some way from the switcher...
1) You can get signal boosters, which seem to do the trick, for peanuts. Eg:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134364167964
(I've bought one, but not had a chance to try yet.)
2) The next step up is this type of booster:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394418944460
(No idea what these are like)
3) Then there are the cat5/6 link systems. These are used a lot by fully pro suppliers of AV facilities for prestigious events. If going that route, I'd probably see the range available from CPC -although they are very widely available.
We use these cat5/6 distribution systems at our church, in conjunction with a splitter, to route the HDMi from the 'control' point to a large video screen for the congregation and a separate screen for those 'on stage'. Works faultlessly.
4) The final option that I know of is wireless. That's the one I shall probably pursue, as trailing cables at 'my' event are really not on. All sorts of prices, but I thought I might check out these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144969038204
but if you've got cash to splash, then something like this might be more appropriate:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313993955508 ... wTFNifONg
My concern about wireless is the fact that many are in the WiFi band. That said, the cheaper set I've highlighted is in 5.8 GHz territory.
(Just done a search... plenty of fibre-optic HDMI systems available, but much more expensive than the cat 5/6 route...)
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- Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster - Posts: 10585 Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:00 am
Re: Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg3 ... DNEALw_wcB
CPC/Farnell do a range, some very cheap, some more than the above.
Dave.
CPC/Farnell do a range, some very cheap, some more than the above.
Dave.
Re: Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
HDMI cables vary widely in quality, so it's likely that a better-quality cable might restore your 15m run.
I've use Neotech boosters with good results, as well as a few brands of ethernet extenders up to 50m. I've experienced some small sync issues or slight processing delays with the latter, as well as a few compatibility issues depending on the gear connected.
Another option is conversion to SDI (and back) for longer runs but you'll need to consider sync there too. I'd recommend that or investing in optical HDMI for your use.
I've use Neotech boosters with good results, as well as a few brands of ethernet extenders up to 50m. I've experienced some small sync issues or slight processing delays with the latter, as well as a few compatibility issues depending on the gear connected.
Another option is conversion to SDI (and back) for longer runs but you'll need to consider sync there too. I'd recommend that or investing in optical HDMI for your use.
Re: Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
We’ve bought several cpc 20 & 30 fibre hdmi and have been disappointed in the reliability. Now as a few of these have been sent on dry hires, we can’t guarantee user error / damage as they are fragile.
What we have also found is that they are not reliable across the board when it come to the varied connected devices. Some of our top end projectors (Epson 15/20k) don’t seem to like them. Use a brightsign and a decent screen and they’re fine but again, not robust enough for multi install/derig.
At ISE in Barcelona we found a supplier of various fibre cables, hdmi/usb to name but a few and they are allegedly “indesctructable” we saw them used, abused, stood on, tied in knots etc etc and still performed. Back in Blighty we got some quotes and they are very expensive but considering we’ve binned 6 cpc leads, may be a cost effective solution. Check out vivolink https://www.eetgroup.com/en-gb
We tend to stick to Sdi wherever we can and supply black magic bidirectional sdi/hdmi converters to make it a bit simpler for the end user when sending out dry hire. Cable and fittings are cheap and easy to make.
We also use cat5 as our pro range of projectors have HDbaseT built in so 1 converter at the transmission end and its job done.
Lastly, we did and permanent install a few weeks which had a Mac Studio with 5 video outputs. We ran a local monitor off the hdmi then 4 projectors via genuine Apple thunderbolt/usbC adapters and cpc “pro signal” 20m fibre hdmi. We spent 2 days trying to get a reliable signal to one of the projectors only to find the fault was the physical connection between the hdmi and Apple adapter. Once the cabling was tied up and a glue gun utilised, we could finish.
Hope that helps.
What we have also found is that they are not reliable across the board when it come to the varied connected devices. Some of our top end projectors (Epson 15/20k) don’t seem to like them. Use a brightsign and a decent screen and they’re fine but again, not robust enough for multi install/derig.
At ISE in Barcelona we found a supplier of various fibre cables, hdmi/usb to name but a few and they are allegedly “indesctructable” we saw them used, abused, stood on, tied in knots etc etc and still performed. Back in Blighty we got some quotes and they are very expensive but considering we’ve binned 6 cpc leads, may be a cost effective solution. Check out vivolink https://www.eetgroup.com/en-gb
We tend to stick to Sdi wherever we can and supply black magic bidirectional sdi/hdmi converters to make it a bit simpler for the end user when sending out dry hire. Cable and fittings are cheap and easy to make.
We also use cat5 as our pro range of projectors have HDbaseT built in so 1 converter at the transmission end and its job done.
Lastly, we did and permanent install a few weeks which had a Mac Studio with 5 video outputs. We ran a local monitor off the hdmi then 4 projectors via genuine Apple thunderbolt/usbC adapters and cpc “pro signal” 20m fibre hdmi. We spent 2 days trying to get a reliable signal to one of the projectors only to find the fault was the physical connection between the hdmi and Apple adapter. Once the cabling was tied up and a glue gun utilised, we could finish.
Hope that helps.
Re: Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
Just coming back in on this as I'm about to 'invest' in some kit for cameras that are remote from Mission Control.
Further investigation of wireless indicates that you have to spend £150+ to get something with acceptable latency. Even north of that figure, some suppliers speak proudly of their 120ms latency...
I've bought a Neoteck at a good price, so I'll give that a go under experimental conditions.
I've also checked out the fibre optic options. I'd thought they'd be like the Cat5/6 setups with a powered box at each end. Much neater - and no external power required, so I'll probably be getting a 30m cable from my preferrred supplier of sundry cable stuff...
What did you settle on in the end, Mark?
Further investigation of wireless indicates that you have to spend £150+ to get something with acceptable latency. Even north of that figure, some suppliers speak proudly of their 120ms latency...
I've bought a Neoteck at a good price, so I'll give that a go under experimental conditions.
I've also checked out the fibre optic options. I'd thought they'd be like the Cat5/6 setups with a powered box at each end. Much neater - and no external power required, so I'll probably be getting a 30m cable from my preferrred supplier of sundry cable stuff...
What did you settle on in the end, Mark?
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- Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster - Posts: 10585 Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:00 am
Re: Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
I got a couple of these from Amazon. We installed them yesterday. Seemed to go really well.
The cable itself is lovely and thin and quite flexible, not at all like normal fat HDMIs, so pulling them through under the floor to the AV cabinet was a breeze.
They take their 5V power from the HDMI ports, so no PSUs, and the connectors themselves are smaller than standard HDMI connectors too. Had it all on soak test for about 2 hours with no discernible quality problems. In fact, I'd say the images appear to be cleaner (Albeit I'm looking at the ATEM multi camera view on an 18 inch monitor.)
Guess the proof of the pudding will be Sunday's live stream. At the moment I've left the copper cables in place just in case I need to revert to them!
Re: Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
Thanks!
Those cables seem similar to the ones I've earmarked... I'll probably go for 30M... I agree about the thinner cable; makes temporary (for me) routing a lot easier - in marked contrast to my long Cat6 cable (non audio, for reaching a distant router or socket) which always seems to have a mind of its own!
BTW... I have a vague idea that at some point it would be good to come and see your church setup - either midweek or on a Sunday.... just a thought....
Those cables seem similar to the ones I've earmarked... I'll probably go for 30M... I agree about the thinner cable; makes temporary (for me) routing a lot easier - in marked contrast to my long Cat6 cable (non audio, for reaching a distant router or socket) which always seems to have a mind of its own!
BTW... I have a vague idea that at some point it would be good to come and see your church setup - either midweek or on a Sunday.... just a thought....
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- Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster - Posts: 10585 Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:00 am
Re: Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
I found someone selling a30m fibre-optic on a well-known auction site for half-price - marked as 'New - Unopened'... which indeed it was...
Works a treat for 1920x1080!
Works a treat for 1920x1080!
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- Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster - Posts: 10585 Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:00 am
Re: Not sound related… Fibre optic HDMI?
I don't think so, Dave. But I'm happy to be corrected...
It coils onto a drum quite tidily... trouble is, when it comes off the drum it wants to stay 'all curly-wurly'... I've tried manually getting the bend out, and other tricks that usually work, but to no avail.
'Tis this:
https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/networking ... 97171.html
I bought something slightly heavier duty, as its intended use was to go from a non-router-equipped building to an equipped building. Never used for that purpose, but got me out of a jam once when the proffered wall-box connection was u/s... had to run my cable to another port/box at the other end of a - large - room/hall.
It coils onto a drum quite tidily... trouble is, when it comes off the drum it wants to stay 'all curly-wurly'... I've tried manually getting the bend out, and other tricks that usually work, but to no avail.
'Tis this:
https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/networking ... 97171.html
I bought something slightly heavier duty, as its intended use was to go from a non-router-equipped building to an equipped building. Never used for that purpose, but got me out of a jam once when the proffered wall-box connection was u/s... had to run my cable to another port/box at the other end of a - large - room/hall.
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- Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster - Posts: 10585 Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:00 am