About transferring a file to another daw

[James_AvA]

Hello to everybody. I would like to know if you can transfer a song from one daw to another. For instance, I recorded a song on garage-band which I currently use. In the future I am looking into getting a professional music producer to re-master my song. I am wondering if it is possible to load a garage-band file/song into say, logic for instance and work on it then.
I would also like to know that, since garage-band does not allow you to lower and raise the track volumes without destroying automation, is it possible for the professional music producer to upload the song into logic, for instance, and lower and raise the volumes that way, while keeping the automation work on the song.
Many thanks. kind regards.

[muzines]

Yes, Logic loads Garageband projects directly. It's how people can start using GB, then upgrade to Logic later on, and still work on their projects.

Yes, you can alter volumes on tracks that have automation in numerous ways (gain plugins, trimming the automation, subgrouping and so on.)

[James_AvA]

Thank you for the reply. I am aware of gain plugins, I use the gain plug in as well in garage-band. But I would like to find out if in logic, for instance, it is possible to just simply raise and lower the volume levels without touching the automation, without using the gain plug in.
I am told that it is a bug and a very unfortunate one in garageband, where you cannot do this. many thanks.

[muzines]

Thank you for the reply. I am aware of gain plugins, I use the gain plug in as well in garage-band. But I would like to find out if in logic, for instance, it is possible to just simply raise and lower the volume levels without touching the automation, without using the gain plug in.

I just gave three different ways you could do it off the top of my head. Using gain plugins was one of the three methods (and one of the easiest to apply). I can think of others too.

Remember, if you are automating a fader, the automation is telling the fader what level to be at. If you want that fader at a different level, you can Trim the automation, either by scaling it (raising or lowering it), or writing relative automation over the top (which basically adds an extra layer of new automation without affecting the original automation).

Or, you route those faders to subgroups, and offset the levels there, leaving the original channels alone. Or use VCA faders. But basically, if you're giving the project to someone else, how they choose to do this is their problem, not yours, and you can probably assume some degree of competency from the professional Logic mixers.

So the answer to what you are asking is yes, absolutely. There are many ways to do this in Logic.

[James_AvA]

Thanks man.

[muzines]

You're welcome!

[Wonks]

But note that the easy transference only applies to Logic (AFAIK).

Other DAWs use their own proprietary formats for storing all the information about complete songs, so won’t read the song file.

You can transfer individual track waveforms and MIDI data to other DAWs, but none of the automation data, and you’ll need to load any plug-ins again and redo all the mixing.

So I wouldn’t approach anyone who doesn’t have Logic.

All the best in your endeavours.

[MarkOne]

When I've worked with someone who has mixed stuff I've previously recorded, I assume they will want to start with a blank canvas. No automation, no plugins*.

Make sure all your tracks are as well recorded as possible, plenty of headroom, etc.

Make sure your project has a bar of silence at the start

Bounce all of your audio tracks as single mono or stereo files (depending on the source) starting at 1,1,1,1 and right out to the end bar of the song (including any reverb or delay tails that might be actually on the track)

Bounce any virtual instruments to audio in the same way

Name your tracks consistently . E.g.

01_Kick.wav
02_Snare.wav

etc

*You may want to bake in amp sims or the like if you have a particular tone you are really attached to, but I'd also include a dry track in case the mix engineer has access to something better than you or wants to blend stuff.

Make notes for the mix engineer, Tell them the tempo - or include a click track - add things like 'can I have a strong delay on that last word of the chorus as it goes into the bridge'

Once all the files are ready you can zip them into an archive and sent it off. It's then pretty easy for a mix engineer to load them into any DAW they like.

But obviously talk to the mix engineer before hand because they may just have every DAW known to man and want to do this themselves!

[James_AvA]

Hi Mark, can you please tell me more about having plenty of headroom. I've heard this before in that when mastering there must be headroom. I've gathered it refers to leaving space for the song to be raised in volume while you are mastering. Pls tell me more.
I suppose if they want to begin again with no automation and plugins, you would have to be there with him while he is re mastering it because only you know how the song should sound exactly the way you want. I suppose that is just the thing that makes the most sense.
But the mixing I would have finished, and would have also fixed everything the way it should be, with regard to automation and the gain plug in which raises the volume of the track. Is that what you refer to when you say '...no plugins.'
Many thanks.

[muzines]

Ok, so you're not delivering it to a mix engineer to be mixed, you're mixing it yourself, and delivering it to a *mastering engineer* to be mastered - that's a different process, that in no way involves your GB or Logic or DAW project files - you do not deliver these to a mastering engineer.

You create your mix with whatever plugins, automation etc you need, then you bounce your mix out of your DAW to a stereo audio file at an appropriate quality, and it's *that* you send to the mastering guy.

[Wonks]

^^^^^^^Indeed

Mastering does not involve any change to the relative mix levels. A good mastering engineer will tell you if there are any major technical issues with the mix that need to be sorted out with a re-mix e.g. excessive levels of bass or a lot of hiss. The mastering engineer should have a much better listening environment than you have at home, so may pick up things that are hidden by your own listening environment e.g. you may have compensated with EQ for a room node at 85Hz, so pushed up the bass level there, which becomes prominent when listened to in an acoustically flat environment.

Some things they can correct with EQ if it’s a general issue, but if it’s on just one instrument/sound, then they can’t. Or they might be able to with new spectral analysis tools, but it could take them a lot of time (so is costly) and risk leaving artefacts if done badly. So sometimes they may ask if you can correct something.

But if there are no glaring faults, then they’ll do what they can to add a bit of gloss to the track and bring it up to your required levels and output formats. You’ll probably want several formats for different platforms. You could do these yourself from a master file, but it might be safer to get the mastering engineer to do it to guarantee things like dithering are applied correctly.

Individual tracks can be raised to a desired target level, but if mastering a full album, then the individual tracks need to be balanced against the loudest track.

And if it’s going to be released commercially, then they’ll add all the relevant ISRC and UPC codes (which you’ll need to provide).

[James_AvA]

Ok thanks guys. My question is, is it necessary to leave a bar or a space of silence before the track as was stated above. Also pls tell me what having plenty of headroom means when mastering. many thanks.

[Drew Stephenson]

Headroom refers to the gap between the loudest part of your track and 0.0dB maximum level for digital audio.
I think most mastering engineers will ask for 3 to 6dB of headroom to work with.
Generally a second or so of lead in to a track will be enough, but if it's an album's worth of material then I'd expect the mastering engineer to work on the lead in and gaps between tracks anyway.

[James_AvA]

When you say 0.0db maximum level, what do you mean exactly? That the tracks should be at the maximum level 0.0db?

[muzines]

0dBFS is the highest amplitude a sample can be in a fixed point audio file. If you try to turn up the volume any more, the bits over 0dBFS get clipped (= distortion).

You should be under 0dBFS, and how much under you are is how much headroom you have.

[sonics]

The term is 0 dBFS, which is the maximum level a digital system can handle. The headroom we're talking about is the gap between that and the loudest audio signal, which ensures that the audio never gets distorted by reaching that maximum level.
Make sure your mix never peaks at more than -3 dBFS by using a peak level meter, and you'll be okay.

I don't think the lead-in is an issue. Just make sure there is some, even if it's just a quarter of a second. You should be making sure that all of the mix is present, and that the very start of a beat is not cut off, for example.

[James Perrett]

My question is, is it necessary to leave a bar or a space of silence before the track as was stated above.

I like to receive files with a little bit of space before the track although it doesn't have to be as long as a bar. A beat would do although don't worry if the gap is longer.

If there is no space then I worry that the start has been cut off. I also have to add a short gap before the start because some CD players and other music players cut off the start of a track.

[James_AvA]

0dBFS is the highest amplitude a sample can be in a fixed point audio file. If you try to turn up the volume any more, the bits over 0dBFS get clipped (= distortion).

You should be under 0dBFS, and how much under you are is how much headroom you have.

ok thanks for the heads-up, now I know that the maximum is 0.0db. However from what I have seen, that it can go above 0.0db and be ok in the sense that the track doesn't go red- it can go above 0.0db without it going red. Pls let me know your thoughts.

[James_AvA]

The term is 0 dBFS, which is the maximum level a digital system can handle. The headroom we're talking about is the gap between that and the loudest audio signal, which ensures that the audio never gets distorted by reaching that maximum level.
Make sure your mix never peaks at more than -3 dBFS by using a peak level meter, and you'll be okay.

I don't think the lead-in is an issue. Just make sure there is some, even if it's just a quarter of a second. You should be making sure that all of the mix is present, and that the very start of a beat is not cut off, for example.

Ok if it is -3 or the highest maximum 0.0 I think its ok. What is peak meter? many thanks

[Kwackman]

Ok if it is -3 or the highest maximum 0.0 I think it’s ok. What is peak meter? many thanks

The article about test tones in this month’s magazine covers this really well.

[Hugh Robjohns]

ok thanks for the heads-up, now I know that the maximum is 0.0db.

There's considerable scope for confusion here over your use of decibels.

Decibels describe a (logarithmic) ratio between two signal levels. For example, we could be comparing the input and output levels of a mic preamp to describe its gain, eg 60dB.

In this case no suffix is required after the dB as its a simple ratio between to abstract signals.

More often, though, we use decibels to compare a signal level to a defined reference level, and in that case a suffix denoting the specific reference in use is absolurely essential. The dB number is meaningless without the appropriate suffix.

In the analogue audio world we use different references in different situations, such as dBu, dBm, dBV, dB-SPL, and various others.

In the digital audio world we mostly use dBFS, where FS equates to "Full Scale" which is the loudest level a standard (fixed-point) A-D or D-A converter can cope with.

So the maximum allowable sample amplitude is 0dBFS and, as all signals will be lower in level than the maximum, their levels are described in negative numbers, eg signal peaking to -6dBFS, etc.

However from what I have seen, that it can go above 0.0db and be ok in the sense that the track doesn't go red...

This will depend on what kind of meter you're looking at and what its 0dB reference is!

If the signal level exceeds 0dBFS it will definitely overload the D-A converter. So your meter 0dB is probably* not 0dBFS.

Some DAW metering systems use meters calibrated with an arbitrary scale to encourage working with headroom. In such cases the meter 0dB mark may equate to -20dBFS, for example, thus affording 20dB of headroom above the nominal operating level (meter 0dB) — replicating the standard analogue arrangement.

*In most DAWs it is possible to raise signal levels above 0dBFS because a floating-point number format is used internally. This permits signal levels anywhere between roughly +750dBFS and -750dBFS! It's done this way to allow complex signal processing without the risk of internal overload or noise.

However, to be able to audition that audio via a D-A converter on your loudspeakers, it has to be adjusted so that the signal peak is below 0dBFS.

[muzines]

Also, it's possible the OP is getting confused between the *fader* decibel readings, and the *meter* readings.

The fader value is just how much volume difference you want to apply to the signal passing through that channel - if the fader is set to 0dB, it says nothing about the actual level on that channel - it simply says "Don't adjust the volume of audio coming through this channel at all".

And +1dB on the fader simply means "turn up the signal by 1dB" (whether that signal is quiet, or loud).

If your signal is coming through and peaks at 0dBFS (the audio level on the meters), then setting the fader at -1dB will mean the audio signal on that channel now peaks at -1dBFS.

If the signal peaks at -8dBFS, then setting the fader to +6dB will mean the signal on that channel will now peak at -2dBFS.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Good points well made!

[Sam Spoons]

The channel meters on Garage Band have no scale attached so it's impossible to know what the actual level of a track is.

This is something of a fudge but may be helpful to the OP https://ryanfreeman.com/en-de/blogs/lea ... garageband

[James_AvA]

Thanks everyone. I think I'll have at least 10-12db gain available, before 0.0db so that there is space to play with, and will try not let it go above 0.0db. I also added gain from the gain plugin on the tracks, so I will keep that in mind and compare them how they sound by switching it off on the gain plugin.
I will also use the track header, the master track at the bottom to work out the volume of the song as a whole.
One thing I noticed is that it can go above 0.0db without clipping, since it can go above it but without going into the red area of the track. Yellow is fine but red is bad. Many thanks!