Ed Sheeran sued for allegedly infringing Marvin Gaye song copyright

[SecretSam]

My tunes are completely different. Bb, Eb and F.

[SecretSam]

To me there's Blueprints to different styles of music from various parts of the world.
Musicians composers bands around the world adhere to these Blueprints.

There's Blues blueprints, Soul blueprints, Indian Raag blueprints, Reggae blueprints, Classical Romantic blueprints, Ambient Techno Trance blueprints, Jazz Big Band blueprints, Blast beat Metal blueprints.
So forth.
Blueprints is what makes them sound as they do, makes musicians composers bands sound as they do.

Judges juries need to understand musical Blueprints.

On Rick's vid at 33sec he compares the similarities.
The accompaniment, groove for this part of the song sounds as if it's been lifted by Ed/Ed's writing team : to me it's just taking a Blueprint.
Similarly for Let's Get It On : Marvin and his writing team The Funk Brothers took/lifted a Blueprint.

As some of the comments on Rick's vid say it's just estates lawyers who never had even an inch of input in writing the song.

Judges juries need to understand Blueprints in music writing, songwriting.

I base my music upon Blueprints.
For instance this is one of my Blues blueprints
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=71Gt46aX9 ... ZSBza3k%3D

^^^ this. Every jazzer has to learn a handful of blues patterns; and 'rhythm changes,' which are the chords used for 'I've Got Rhythm' and probably a dozen other tunes.

And how many guitar riffs are slight variations on I - IIIb - IV? Pretty much all of them.

[Arpangel]

If there are blueprints, I’ve never understood them, I’m serious, I don’t know what people are talking about when they says things like 1-5-2B etc, it means nothing. Just like I have an issue with complicated keyboards, this applies to music in general.

[amanise]

... 1-5-2B etc, it means nothing. ...

Yes. Exactly. A 1, 5, 2 chord progression? I thought they were all called nice names like E7 add9 and such like. Everyone thinks about this backwards. The really impossible task is to think up something completely new. I don't think I've ever done it. I suppose there are shortcuts to take account of. Nobody ever got anywhere they had never been before using a shortcut. That's why they are shortcuts. Great to get to the newsagent to get your sweets, but not for going anywhere new.
Now I'm going to have to have a nap.

[Arpangel]

... 1-5-2B etc, it means nothing. ...

Yes. Exactly. A 1, 5, 2 chord progression? I thought they were all called nice names like E7 add9 and such like. Everyone thinks about this backwards. The really impossible task is to think up something completely new. I don't think I've ever done it. I suppose there are shortcuts to take account of. Nobody ever got anywhere they had never been before using a shortcut. That's why they are shortcuts. Great to get to the newsagent to get your sweets, but not for going anywhere new.
Now I'm going to have to have a nap.

The way people talk about music sometimes, it may as well be another language to me, of course, it is a language, one that I’ve never understood, on a structural level, I understand some of them on a textural level, but not structurally.
When I did my music degree, at induction, we were all asked to name what we thought was the most important element in music, we had a choice, rhythm/groove, harmony, melody, texture, I chose texture, and that’s what I focused on.
Back to the main topic here, one question, why does someone like Ed Sheeran feel the need to make money underhandedly, doesn’t he have enough already without the need to do stuff like that?

[Moroccomoose]

And there is the rub. My own thoughts is that it is the Gaye estate behaving unreasonably, I'm sure they are not short of a bob either. But to effectively legislate against influence, particularly in the arts is a sad road. The whole episode is just a simple money spinner for all involved (except the loser). It all just puts an unnecessary tarnish on an already often morally dubious industry!

[Drew Stephenson]

Back to the main topic here, one question, why does someone like Ed Sheeran feel the need to make money underhandedly, doesn’t he have enough already without the need to do stuff like that?

Wait, what? He's literally just been in court proving that he wasn't doing that.

[Arpangel]

Back to the main topic here, one question, why does someone like Ed Sheeran feel the need to make money underhandedly, doesn’t he have enough already without the need to do stuff like that?

Wait, what? He's literally just been in court proving that he wasn't doing that.

Oh well, hadn’t heard that, if he proved it then it’s business as usual.

[Sam Spoons]

Ed S didn't bring the case, it was Marvin Gaye's*, presumably multi million dollar, estate that brought the case in the hopes of acquiring even more wealth.

* Strictly Townsend's the co-writer I think.

... 1-5-2B etc, it means nothing. ...

Yes. Exactly. A 1, 5, 2 chord progression? I thought they were all called nice names like E7 add9 and such like.

It's just a 'key agnostic' way of describing a chord sequence, aka the Nashville number system (which actually predates Nashville as a music hub by quite a long time).

[amanise]

... a 'key agnostic' way of describing a chord sequence, aka the Nashville number system (which actually predates Nashville as a music hub by quite a long time).

I see.. Nashville, eh? They detune their guitars there don't they... It's all beginning to make sense now. Fiendish!

[Sam Spoons]

... a 'key agnostic' way of describing a chord sequence, aka the Nashville number system (which actually predates Nashville as a music hub by quite a long time).

I see.. Nashville, eh? They detune their guitars there don't they... It's all beginning to make sense now. Fiendish!

Not routinely no. The Nashville system was developed to be used by sessions players so they could easily change the key for different singers without writing out a whole new chart.

[BigRedX]

Don't they just put a capo on?

[amanise]

Don't they just put a capo on?

Ugh.. hate those things. Moving them up and down whenever the chord changes is a real pain. I expect they have them in Nashville too.

[merlyn]

I wouldn't have had a problem with Marvin Gaye's estate winning. Marvin Gaye was good. Ed Sheeran ... eh

Ed Sheeran said he was going to quit the music business if he lost. So there's that.

[SecretSam]

If there are blueprints, I’ve never understood them, I’m serious, I don’t know what people are talking about when they says things like 1-5-2B etc, it means nothing. Just like I have an issue with complicated keyboards, this applies to music in general.

I think you are kidding, but if not, let me change your life in seven short paragraphs of mansplaining.

Most scales** have seven different notes. If in doubt about this, listen to Julie Andrews singing 'Doh, a Deer..' a couple of times and you will get it .

So those Roman numerals - 1 to 7 (or I to VII as my good mate Julius Caesar used to say), just tell you which note of the scale we are talking about in a general way. So you don't need to worry about actual note names. Because scales of the same type work the same way, regardless of which note they start on*.

The little 'b' just tells you that it's a flat note, compared with the nursery school major scale that Julie Andrews is singing.

A flat third means a minor scale: IIIb. So in a scale starting on C, IIIb is Eb. Like in every classic guitar riff ever played. Smoke on the water: I, IIIb, IV ( or in English: 1 flat3, 4. Or C, E flat, F).

Flat 7th means it's minor or part of a 7 chord. So B flat if you are playing a scale starting on C. Most pop and rock music chords use a flat 7 - i.e. not a major 7 - or no 7th at all, because chords including a major 7th usually sound shit.

Flat 9 is the same thing as a flat 2 (do the arithmetic or play C major over two octaves on your keyboard until you have convinced yourself). Flat 3 and Flat 9 in the same scale means you are playing death metal.

Any other alterations mean you are playing jazz, and you are up past your bedtime, Daisy.

Any questions?

*There are some precious hot-house flowers who claim that the same scale type starting on different notes will have a different emotional resonance. If you work in electronic music, you probably accept that a DJ will fiddle with the pitch if he feels like it, so let's just decide that that is not our department.

**Note to pedants: yes, I know there are some well-known exceptions. One step at a time, please.

[Hugh Robjohns]

[ManFromGlass]

I think I get it now, thanks! You make theory easy!
I’m still not quite sure about the markings on the keyboard though. (I’m a drummer) So are all the white ones the “even” notes? Like 2, 4, 6 + 8? Then the black ones must be 1, 3, 5 + 7 right? But I have seen some older keyboards where the colours are reversed so are they only for playing jazz as you say?
So much to learn . . . . . !

[Arpangel]

If there are blueprints, I’ve never understood them, I’m serious, I don’t know what people are talking about when they says things like 1-5-2B etc, it means nothing. Just like I have an issue with complicated keyboards, this applies to music in general.

I think you are kidding, but if not, let me change your life in seven short paragraphs of mansplaining.

Most scales** have seven different notes. If in doubt about this, listen to Julie Andrews singing 'Doh, a Deer..' a couple of times and you will get it .

So those Roman numerals - 1 to 7 (or I to VII as my good mate Julius Caesar used to say), just tell you which note of the scale we are talking about in a general way. So you don't need to worry about actual note names. Because scales of the same type work the same way, regardless of which note they start on*.

The little 'b' just tells you that it's a flat note, compared with the nursery school major scale that Julie Andrews is singing.

A flat third means a minor scale: IIIb. So in a scale starting on C, IIIb is Eb. Like in every classic guitar riff ever played. Smoke on the water: I, IIIb, IV ( or in English: 1 flat3, 4. Or C, E flat, F).

Flat 7th means it's minor or part of a 7 chord. So B flat if you are playing a scale starting on C. Most pop and rock music chords use a flat 7 - i.e. not a major 7 - or no 7th at all, because chords including a major 7th usually sound shit.

Flat 9 is the same thing as a flat 2 (do the arithmetic or play C major over two octaves on your keyboard until you have convinced yourself). Flat 3 and Flat 9 in the same scale means you are playing death metal.

Any other alterations mean you are playing jazz, and you are up past your bedtime, Daisy.

Any questions?

*There are some precious hot-house flowers who claim that the same scale type starting on different notes will have a different emotional resonance. If you work in electronic music, you probably accept that a DJ will fiddle with the pitch if he feels like it, so let's just decide that that is not our department.

**Note to pedants: yes, I know there are some well-known exceptions. One step at a time, please.

Thanks Sam, that’s all perfectly clear, but, are you taking into account semitones, when you use these numbers, or only whole tones?
For instance, if the root note was C and I said 1-7-8 would that mean C-F sharp-G ?

[BWC]

For instance, if the root note was C and I said 1-7-8 would that mean C-F sharp-G ?

No, that would be I-IV♯-V.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Thanks Sam, that’s all perfectly clear, but, are you taking into account semitones, when you use these numbers, or only whole tones?

Ah... not perfectly clear then...

As Sam said, the numbering scheme relates to the 7 notes of any major scale.

So in the key of C: c-d-e-f-g-a-b

Or do-re-me-fa-sol-la-ti

So the three basic chords in that key are C major, F major and G major which are denoted as I, IV and V because they derive from the first, fourth and fifth scale notes.

For instance, if the root note was C and I said 1-7-8 would that mean C-F sharp-G ?

No, it would mean C, B(natural) and C.

C-F#-G is numbered as I-IV#-V, as BWC has noted above.

[amanise]

All of this is fine and dandy, but what does Ed Sheeran think?? We haven't heard from him yet! I can't believe he doesn't have an account!

[Drew Stephenson]

I wouldn't have had a problem with Marvin Gaye's estate winning. Marvin Gaye was good. Ed Sheeran ... eh

Not really the point though is it? It's about locking up common ideas and a distorted ownership culture.

[OneWorld]

If there are blueprints, I’ve never understood them, I’m serious, I don’t know what people are talking about when they says things like 1-5-2B etc, it means nothing. Just like I have an issue with complicated keyboards, this applies to music in general.

I think you are kidding, but if not, let me change your life in seven short paragraphs of mansplaining.

Most scales** have seven different notes. If in doubt about this, listen to Julie Andrews singing 'Doh, a Deer..' a couple of times and you will get it .

So those Roman numerals - 1 to 7 (or I to VII as my good mate Julius Caesar used to say), just tell you which note of the scale we are talking about in a general way. So you don't need to worry about actual note names. Because scales of the same type work the same way, regardless of which note they start on*.

The little 'b' just tells you that it's a flat note, compared with the nursery school major scale that Julie Andrews is singing.

A flat third means a minor scale: IIIb. So in a scale starting on C, IIIb is Eb. Like in every classic guitar riff ever played. Smoke on the water: I, IIIb, IV ( or in English: 1 flat3, 4. Or C, E flat, F).

Flat 7th means it's minor or part of a 7 chord. So B flat if you are playing a scale starting on C. Most pop and rock music chords use a flat 7 - i.e. not a major 7 - or no 7th at all, because chords including a major 7th usually sound shit.

Flat 9 is the same thing as a flat 2 (do the arithmetic or play C major over two octaves on your keyboard until you have convinced yourself). Flat 3 and Flat 9 in the same scale means you are playing death metal.

Any other alterations mean you are playing jazz, and you are up past your bedtime, Daisy.

Any questions?

*There are some precious hot-house flowers who claim that the same scale type starting on different notes will have a different emotional resonance. If you work in electronic music, you probably accept that a DJ will fiddle with the pitch if he feels like it, so let's just decide that that is not our department.

**Note to pedants: yes, I know there are some well-known exceptions. One step at a time, please.

I have on occason been roped into teaching music, and no matter what instrument I encouraged people to familiarise themselves with the notation, but so many run away in fear at the sight of Roman Numerals and then there's those that convinced themselves the use of them is archaic and they 'rebel' against anything that is not of the TikTok epoch. But the method is so elegantly simple that I fail to understand how someone can find it complicated and irrelevant.

That said, once I had endured and let people have their tantrum, and then discover for themselves how appropriate and effective the method is, they ask themselves what was all the fuss about. But that's human nature, we so often kick against what we are not familiar with, we don't like the unkjnown, we think it was invented to confuse humiliate and intimidate us, whereas in truth, once comfortable with a concept we realise it serves to make life easier, and me being a lazy bones I am always up for something that aligns with my philosophy of what I call 'Economy of Effort'

[Arpangel]

Thanks Sam, that’s all perfectly clear, but, are you taking into account semitones, when you use these numbers, or only whole tones?

Ah... not perfectly clear then...

As Sam said, the numbering scheme relates to the 7 notes of any major scale.

So in the key of C: c-d-e-f-g-a-b

Or do-re-me-fa-sol-la-ti

So the three basic chords in that key are C major, F major and G major which are denoted as I, IV and V because they derive from the first, fourth and fifth scale notes.

For instance, if the root note was C and I said 1-7-8 would that mean C-F sharp-G ?

No, it would mean C, B(natural) and C.

C-F#-G is numbered as I-IV#-V, as BWC has noted above.

Thanks Hugh, I’ve got it.
Strange how you can go through your whole life not knowing something important, and then, suddenly, you know it!
This is SOS at its best, for me anyway.

[MarkOne]

Thanks Sam, that’s all perfectly clear, but, are you taking into account semitones, when you use these numbers, or only whole tones?

Ah... not perfectly clear then...

As Sam said, the numbering scheme relates to the 7 notes of any major scale.

So in the key of C: c-d-e-f-g-a-b

Or do-re-me-fa-sol-la-ti

So the three basic chords in that key are C major, F major and G major which are denoted as I, IV and V because they derive from the first, fourth and fifth scale notes.

For instance, if the root note was C and I said 1-7-8 would that mean C-F sharp-G ?

No, it would mean C, B(natural) and C.

C-F#-G is numbered as I-IV#-V, as BWC has noted above.

Thanks Hugh, I’ve got it.
Strange how you can go through your whole life not knowing something important, and then, suddenly, you know it!
This is SOS at its best, for me anyway.

As a self confessed improviser you’ve probably instinctively known it forever.

On a number of occasions after we’ve had to transpose something to suit the singer, I’ve been asked by the guitarist “what’s that 2nd chord in the chorus?” And I have to stop and figure out exactly what it was I just played, because although I just played it, I didn’t actually know consciously what it was. (Particularly if it was some diminished or augmented chord)