Hi all..
Am slowly learning..all this is new to me since buying my mininova synth...
I have managed to set my studio monitor and audio interface box to everything. My mininova synth is connected via midi to my bigger older keyboard for full octave range and bigger keys.
And mininova is connected to computer via usb.
Still struggling with DAW software but slowly getting there..
My query is this and it may be naive or dumb, but remember I'm an oldie with no experience...
What i now need to do is be able to record midi into the daw software using my BIGGER keyboard thats connected to the mininova...
Currently my mininova is connected to computer and i can record midi to computer when playing this synth.
But when i use the bigger keyboard, it plays the mininova sounds due to the midi connection, but how do I get THIS nto the daw recording when playing the bigger keyboard?
What I mean is this...do I also need to connect a usb midi cable from this bigger keyboard to one of my computers usb ports? But I presume the daw recording software will then only pick up the big keyboards INTERNAL sounds and not the mininova sounds? Or do I need to connect bigger keyboard another way?
The mininova only has small keys and so whatever i play and record into my daw is limited, and I'd like to be able to not only just PLAY the mininova sounds when using the big keyboard, but to also record the minnova's sounds into daw when playing the BIGGER one..
Am confused again...
Sorry!
PS...older bigger keyboard is a DP-10 X digital piano and has midi out, currently connected to mininova synth. Also has usb to host port...and also aux in and line out, and 2 headphone 1.4" jack sockets..
Audio interface box is an Edirol UA-20 with midi in and out...usb to computer, various inputs 1.4" jacks, and audio out via two line sockets, left and right, and also has optical audio out..
Midi keyboard to Daw query
Midi keyboard to Daw query
Last edited by EddyEdwards7 on Tue May 02, 2023 6:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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- EddyEdwards7
Poster - Posts: 23 Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:26 pm
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
Info on the 'bigger older keyboard' needed. Let us know exactly what it is and somebody who has used one will almost certainly be along to help. 
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- Sam Spoons
Forum Aficionado - Posts: 22910 Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:00 am Location: Manchester UK
Still mourning the loss of my 'Jedi Poster" status 
People often mistake me for a grown-up because of my age.
People often mistake me for a grown-up because of my age.
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
You asked us before how to connect the keyboard to the synth. At that stage no DAW was in the equation, so it was simply attach a MIDI cable from keyboard MIDI out to synth MIDI in. With a DAW now in the picture you need to do things differently...
The basic connection pattern is to connect both the keyboard and synth's MIDI ports to your computer. Now your DAW will decide where to send the MIDI you are generating from the keyboard and direct the MIDI to the synth. Usually this takes the form of creating a track in your DAW, and assigning the input as the MIDI output port from your keyboard and the output as the MIDI port connected to your synth's MIDI input. In reality these ports may be 5-pin DIN MIDI ports, or they may be USB connections.
That's the very basics of it. I know you will have more questions, but maybe this will get you started.
The basic connection pattern is to connect both the keyboard and synth's MIDI ports to your computer. Now your DAW will decide where to send the MIDI you are generating from the keyboard and direct the MIDI to the synth. Usually this takes the form of creating a track in your DAW, and assigning the input as the MIDI output port from your keyboard and the output as the MIDI port connected to your synth's MIDI input. In reality these ports may be 5-pin DIN MIDI ports, or they may be USB connections.
That's the very basics of it. I know you will have more questions, but maybe this will get you started.
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
Many thanks...very basics? Lol ...even more confused..
I'm wondering if when playing the big keyboard if I connect it to computer, will the daw record this, then would i be able to convert this into the sounds that the synth has?
Or is that illogical...
Ultimately I want to create and record some tracks using the mininovas sounds, but not using the mininova keyboard, but the bigger one..
So comnecting rhe midi as above, my big keyboard only has midi out which is plugged into midi in on synth. Synth has both midi in and out.
So how do i then connect so BOTH are setup on computer...
I'm wondering if when playing the big keyboard if I connect it to computer, will the daw record this, then would i be able to convert this into the sounds that the synth has?
Or is that illogical...
Ultimately I want to create and record some tracks using the mininovas sounds, but not using the mininova keyboard, but the bigger one..
So comnecting rhe midi as above, my big keyboard only has midi out which is plugged into midi in on synth. Synth has both midi in and out.
So how do i then connect so BOTH are setup on computer...
Last edited by EddyEdwards7 on Tue May 02, 2023 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- EddyEdwards7
Poster - Posts: 23 Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:26 pm
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
EddyEdwards7 wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 6:28 pm I'm wondering if when playing the big keyboard if I connect it to computer, will the daw record this, then would i be able to convert this into the sounds that the synth has?
You need to get this idea of MIDI being any kind of audio that you can 'convert' out of your mind. All MIDI is is a piece of data saying 'play a note' (and for others reading this, yes, I'm over-simplifying here!). MIDI has no idea which instrument it is going to be sent to - all it does is say 'play now!'. This could be a synth, a sampler, a digital piano, a drum machine... They will all play a note, but they will each produce their own sound.
You need to get this data from the keyboard to the synth. You've already achieved this with a MIDI cable between the keyboard and synth. Now you need to put your computer/DAW in-between the keyboard and synth.
Both keyboard and synth need to be connected to your computer, either by USB, or MIDI. I doubt you have the capability to connect both of them via MIDI with the gear you have right now, so hopefully they both have USB.
Now you need to create a MIDI track in your DAW. Set the track's input to the keyboard and its output to the synth. Now when you play the keyboard the synth should produce sound. When you record the MIDI from the keyboard and play it back the synth should sound.
If you need it even simpler than this then you need to give us fine details of everything you have there, including your DAW.
And failing this... Where in the world are you? Maybe a forum member is close by.
Last edited by The Elf on Tue May 02, 2023 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
Perfect! Got you...understand it now...
Got it that midi is NOT audio....
Also get the connections now...
I'll try adding the big keyboard to computer with usb cable...
Keyboard usb plug is the fatter type insert and not the usua usb computer port. I'll see how i manage...I'll have to buy another same type usb cable as current one is connecting synth to computer..
Many many thanks all
Got it that midi is NOT audio....
Also get the connections now...
I'll try adding the big keyboard to computer with usb cable...
Keyboard usb plug is the fatter type insert and not the usua usb computer port. I'll see how i manage...I'll have to buy another same type usb cable as current one is connecting synth to computer..
Many many thanks all
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- EddyEdwards7
Poster - Posts: 23 Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:26 pm
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
1. Plug one Midi 5 pin cable to the midi out of your big keyboard and go to the midi in of your edirol audio/midi interface.
2. Plug your mini nova with a usb cable to the computer
3. Open a midi track or instrument track in your Daw
4. On the midi track choose the input path from your Edirol midi in
5. On the same midi track now at the output path, choose the mininova midi out
6. Activate rec arm on that midi track and start recording
7. Every note that you play on the big keyboard is gonna be recorded on the midi editor, and, at the same time, sends that midi information to the mininova.
8. If you also want to record the audio from the mininova into your DAW, you also should plug a stereo jack in the stereo out from the mininova, and plug them in to the audio channels 1 & 2 of the Edirol audio interface.
9. Then go again to your DAW and open a stereo audio track . Arm the rec on that track. So now you have a track for the midi signal , that represents your performance, and a audio track where you gonna have the sound of the mininova converted to audio
Good luck! Sorry for my bad English
Francisco
2. Plug your mini nova with a usb cable to the computer
3. Open a midi track or instrument track in your Daw
4. On the midi track choose the input path from your Edirol midi in
5. On the same midi track now at the output path, choose the mininova midi out
6. Activate rec arm on that midi track and start recording
7. Every note that you play on the big keyboard is gonna be recorded on the midi editor, and, at the same time, sends that midi information to the mininova.
8. If you also want to record the audio from the mininova into your DAW, you also should plug a stereo jack in the stereo out from the mininova, and plug them in to the audio channels 1 & 2 of the Edirol audio interface.
9. Then go again to your DAW and open a stereo audio track . Arm the rec on that track. So now you have a track for the midi signal , that represents your performance, and a audio track where you gonna have the sound of the mininova converted to audio
Good luck! Sorry for my bad English
Francisco
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- forumuser780810
- Posts: 1 Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:08 pm
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
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Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
Wow..great info!
Excuse my ignorance again...
So doing this, when I play the BIG KEYBOARD to the daw,, as you say, it will also send this midi back to the mininova.
I've currently got it doing this, so I can hear back my mininova within my daw software after recording the midi and replaying it, but the Edirol box setup will be different when it arrives..
So will this different setup using the audio box actually record the mininova sounds that I am using (using the big keyboard ), or will the recorded daw be those of the big keyboard only? As its not music but only a midi file..
So then do I use the mininova audio stereo out as you mention into my Edirol interface box? And THAT then allows the mininova sounds back to the daw when I'm playing the bigger keyboard?
You can tell how useless I am!
Basically am I right in thinking that the big keyboard only serves as a better choice when playing..instead of using the mininova's smaller keyboard keys directly..
And the only way to get the mininova sounds into the daw is by using the jack stereo you mentioned going into the Edirol?
The played recording into my daw from the big keyboard, will play on the mininova upon playback, as this recorded midi i played is transferred to the mininova....is that correct?
Then to convert this to audio I also connect the mininova via the stereo output into the Edirol?
Then I can record the audio track with the mininova sounds into my daw?
Do I replay the big keyboards original midi track that I recorded in the daw, therefore this also goes to the mininova too as it's playing? And then as it's playing on the mininova, I record it into an audio track in the daw using my stereo outs on the Edirol box? As the midi only serves as the interface to then create the audio track? Is this correct?
Trying to get my old tired head around this..Sorry!
Excuse my ignorance again...
So doing this, when I play the BIG KEYBOARD to the daw,, as you say, it will also send this midi back to the mininova.
I've currently got it doing this, so I can hear back my mininova within my daw software after recording the midi and replaying it, but the Edirol box setup will be different when it arrives..
So will this different setup using the audio box actually record the mininova sounds that I am using (using the big keyboard ), or will the recorded daw be those of the big keyboard only? As its not music but only a midi file..
So then do I use the mininova audio stereo out as you mention into my Edirol interface box? And THAT then allows the mininova sounds back to the daw when I'm playing the bigger keyboard?
You can tell how useless I am!
Basically am I right in thinking that the big keyboard only serves as a better choice when playing..instead of using the mininova's smaller keyboard keys directly..
And the only way to get the mininova sounds into the daw is by using the jack stereo you mentioned going into the Edirol?
The played recording into my daw from the big keyboard, will play on the mininova upon playback, as this recorded midi i played is transferred to the mininova....is that correct?
Then to convert this to audio I also connect the mininova via the stereo output into the Edirol?
Then I can record the audio track with the mininova sounds into my daw?
Do I replay the big keyboards original midi track that I recorded in the daw, therefore this also goes to the mininova too as it's playing? And then as it's playing on the mininova, I record it into an audio track in the daw using my stereo outs on the Edirol box? As the midi only serves as the interface to then create the audio track? Is this correct?
Trying to get my old tired head around this..Sorry!
Last edited by EddyEdwards7 on Tue May 02, 2023 11:05 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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- EddyEdwards7
Poster - Posts: 23 Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:26 pm
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
Think I've finally got it...watched a youtube video and together with your advice it makes sense...
Basically midi is NOT audio..the external keyboard (my mininova and bigger keyboard) is just a source of playing a midi track into the daw...same as any virtual instrument...
Then once the midi is recorded, simple matter of creating an audio file then recording this midi track into an audio track in daw..
The physical connections between my big keyboard to my mininova, then connecting to my audio interface box and to computer are making sense now..
Thanks everyone..
Basically midi is NOT audio..the external keyboard (my mininova and bigger keyboard) is just a source of playing a midi track into the daw...same as any virtual instrument...
Then once the midi is recorded, simple matter of creating an audio file then recording this midi track into an audio track in daw..
The physical connections between my big keyboard to my mininova, then connecting to my audio interface box and to computer are making sense now..
Thanks everyone..
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- EddyEdwards7
Poster - Posts: 23 Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:26 pm
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
MIDI is just digital control data, not audio.
It can be generated by a hardware instrument — eg. by playing a keyboard — or by programming it manually inside a DAW.
MIDI is conveyed between hardware instruments and computer interfaces as an electrical signal via 5-pin DIN connections (or sometimes via minijack). Alternatively, it can be passed between a hardware instrument and a computer DAW as a digital signal via USB.
You can record and replay MIDI data in the DAW, but to create audio test control data has to be fed into a sound generating machine — either a physical synth or other hardware instrument, or a virtual instrument (VSTi) inside the computer DAW.
You don't need to record MIDI in your DAW. You could just route MIDI from your piano to your synth, and then record the resulting audio from your synth into your DAW via an audio interface.
Alternatively, you could route MIDI from your piano into your DAW, then back out to your synth and capture the resulting audio via an interface again. You may suffer increased latency this way, though — a noticeable short delay between pressing a note and hearing the sound.
A third option is to record both audio and MIDI, which would allow you to edit the MIDI afterwsrds if you made a mistake while playing, and then use that tweaked MIDI to control the synth to record a new performance.
It can be generated by a hardware instrument — eg. by playing a keyboard — or by programming it manually inside a DAW.
MIDI is conveyed between hardware instruments and computer interfaces as an electrical signal via 5-pin DIN connections (or sometimes via minijack). Alternatively, it can be passed between a hardware instrument and a computer DAW as a digital signal via USB.
You can record and replay MIDI data in the DAW, but to create audio test control data has to be fed into a sound generating machine — either a physical synth or other hardware instrument, or a virtual instrument (VSTi) inside the computer DAW.
You don't need to record MIDI in your DAW. You could just route MIDI from your piano to your synth, and then record the resulting audio from your synth into your DAW via an audio interface.
Alternatively, you could route MIDI from your piano into your DAW, then back out to your synth and capture the resulting audio via an interface again. You may suffer increased latency this way, though — a noticeable short delay between pressing a note and hearing the sound.
A third option is to record both audio and MIDI, which would allow you to edit the MIDI afterwsrds if you made a mistake while playing, and then use that tweaked MIDI to control the synth to record a new performance.
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- Hugh Robjohns
Moderator -
Posts: 43698 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Contact:
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
FINALLY! It's sorted...and now that it is, I realise how dumb some my earlier question were!
My large keyboard is hooked to mininova via midi cable, and synth via usb to computer. Also the synth outputs connected to my edirol audio interface, and audio outs to studio monitor.
And now I can record BOTH midi and audio into any daw, and the synth sounds via both the smaller synth and the bigger keyboard too..
Thanks a million everyone for giving me the info to finally grasp the physical connections and daw software setup...
Finally worked it out, and it's common sense when you figure it all out...
Off to create some tunes!
My large keyboard is hooked to mininova via midi cable, and synth via usb to computer. Also the synth outputs connected to my edirol audio interface, and audio outs to studio monitor.
And now I can record BOTH midi and audio into any daw, and the synth sounds via both the smaller synth and the bigger keyboard too..
Thanks a million everyone for giving me the info to finally grasp the physical connections and daw software setup...
Finally worked it out, and it's common sense when you figure it all out...
Off to create some tunes!
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- EddyEdwards7
Poster - Posts: 23 Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:26 pm
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
EddyEdwards7 wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 3:37 pm FINALLY! It's sorted...and now that it is, I realise how dumb some my earlier question were!
There are no dumb questions, well done for your perseverance in asking the right questions to fill the gaps in your knowledge.
Off to create some tunes!
Result
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- Sam Spoons
Forum Aficionado - Posts: 22910 Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:00 am Location: Manchester UK
Still mourning the loss of my 'Jedi Poster" status
People often mistake me for a grown-up because of my age.
People often mistake me for a grown-up because of my age.
Re: Midi keyboard to Daw query
You can feed 2 keyboards into a single midi input as long as one of the keyboads can merge midi input with keyboard-generated midi, and one keyboard has a THRU output.
The general idea:
For recording
Keybd1 midi out -> Keybd2 midi in
Keybd2 midi out -> DAW midi input (for merged midi)
For playback (midi from DAW into keyboards to generate sound)
DAW midi out -> Keybd1 (with THRU output)
Keybd1 midi THRU out -> Keybd2 midi in
There are some issues that crop up.
- Each keyboard must be set to receive and send on separate midi channels.
- On playback, the DAW must only send on channel(s) that the intended receiver keyboard is set to use.
At Tangent Studio we did this for a few months on the late 90s. But a lot of nights were spent diagnosing and fixing what didn't work, and why. It really improves your midi troubleshooting skills, at the expense of a lot of time that would have been better spent making music.
Something like this is a far better solution:
https://www.amazon.com/CME-U6MIDI-Pro-p ... ast_sto_dp
Note: I don't know if this is possible using the USB connector on a keyboard. I avoid USB midi from keyboards because using 5-pin Midi futureproofs my system against keyboard USB drivers going obsolete and rendering my gear useless at every OS update.
The general idea:
For recording
Keybd1 midi out -> Keybd2 midi in
Keybd2 midi out -> DAW midi input (for merged midi)
For playback (midi from DAW into keyboards to generate sound)
DAW midi out -> Keybd1 (with THRU output)
Keybd1 midi THRU out -> Keybd2 midi in
There are some issues that crop up.
- Each keyboard must be set to receive and send on separate midi channels.
- On playback, the DAW must only send on channel(s) that the intended receiver keyboard is set to use.
At Tangent Studio we did this for a few months on the late 90s. But a lot of nights were spent diagnosing and fixing what didn't work, and why. It really improves your midi troubleshooting skills, at the expense of a lot of time that would have been better spent making music.
Something like this is a far better solution:
https://www.amazon.com/CME-U6MIDI-Pro-p ... ast_sto_dp
Note: I don't know if this is possible using the USB connector on a keyboard. I avoid USB midi from keyboards because using 5-pin Midi futureproofs my system against keyboard USB drivers going obsolete and rendering my gear useless at every OS update.
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- Philbo King
Regular - Posts: 383 Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:07 pm