About having a loud mix

[James_AvA]

Hello to everybody.
So something that I ran into a lot is that people commenting on how difficult it is to get a song in the mastering process to be 'loud' like you hear songs on the radio for instance.
I use garage-band and what confuses me about this is that it seems to be quite easy to do that; all you do in the mastering process is use the limiter plug in, which works like a gain plug in on a track, which raises the volume of the entire song. Pls advise. Many thanks.

[Mike Stranks]

There are various ways of making songs 'louder', but I'll leave others to comment on particular techniques... at least for now!

But a few words about "loud; like on the radio."

I don't know of any radio station - broadcast or Internet - that's not some cheap-n-cheerful affair, that doesn't use some form of broadcast processor. Mostly software these days, but still some hardware, the purpose of these is to make the output 'louder'. They range from free ones to costing several thousand £/$. They use various techniques - usually more than one - to increase perceived loudness.

For my stuff that I know will not see another processor after it leaves me, the processor I use has an adjustable combination of multiband compression, expansion and limiting - and some presets.

But back to the original point... to make your standard mix louder, it's a combination of careful dynamics control through the mixing process and then combinations of compression and limiting at the final 'mix to stereo' - or ... use a Broadcast Processor!

[shufflebeat]

Full and concise from MS, as usual.

I’d only add that decisions made in the planning, instrumentation and performance stages can inform and shape the options later in the process.

[amanise]

You certainly have to plan for it if you want to do it properly, and not just have a wall of mush. Preserving the detail is important. I think so far we've had compression, limiting, expansion, and broadcast processing mentioned - but I think it all begins with EQ at each tracking stage as well. To go big and keep the detail you need to build in the space to squeeze later. That's a definitely an early planning decision.

[Matt Houghton]

Most of the answer lies in arrangement, instrumentation/sound selection, performance and mixing techniques. Get that stuff right, and you should find that achieving loudness at stereo bus/mastering stage is actually pretty easy. Get it wrong, and when you start to apply limiting, multiband compression or whatever on the master, you'll find you can't push it far before everything starts turning to mush.

There are loads of old SOS articles that might help you get your head around this stuff. But for starters, you might find the article I wrote recently on How To Achieve Better Separation In Your Mixes helpful.

[James_AvA]

There are various ways of making songs 'louder', but I'll leave others to comment on particular techniques... at least for now!

But a few words about "loud; like on the radio."

I don't know of any radio station - broadcast or Internet - that's not some cheap-n-cheerful affair, that doesn't use some form of broadcast processor. Mostly software these days, but still some hardware, the purpose of these is to make the output 'louder'. They range from free ones to costing several thousand £/$. They use various techniques - usually more than one - to increase perceived loudness.

For my stuff that I know will not see another processor after it leaves me, the processor I use has an adjustable combination of multiband compression, expansion and limiting - and some presets.

But back to the original point... to make your standard mix louder, it's a combination of careful dynamics control through the mixing process and then combinations of compression and limiting at the final 'mix to stereo' - or ... use a Broadcast Processor!

Hi Mike. Is there a broadcast processor available that is compatible with garage-band? Also, when you talk about the final mix to stereo, what does that mean exactly, is it done when you are mastering?

[muzines]

So something that I ran into a lot is that people commenting on how difficult it is to get a song in the mastering process to be 'loud' like you hear songs on the radio for instance.
I use garage-band and what confuses me about this is that it seems to be quite easy to do that; all you do in the mastering process is use the limiter plug in

The problem is not generally getting it loud, but getting it loud without it sounding terrible.

If you have weak mixes with a low average level and high transient information, then to get the track acceptably loud with this method, means you have to use so much limiting to bring the average level up, that your track's transients get killed, the detail gets lost, and the track turns to a horrible distorted mush.

With a good commercial mix, it should generally be more balanced and using methods and techniques for taming transients in a more pleasing way, so by the time it comes for your pre-master, the amount of limiting you have to do to get it to the target loudness is much less - therefore, less distortion, less altering of the final mix, and a better sounding result.

Basically, if you're only relying on a lot of limiting to get loud mixes, they will likely not sound good. Just using a limiter like this (aka The L1 effect) is what a lot of people started doing when the L1 plugin was first released, much to the disdain of mastering engineers everywhere.

All of this is dependent of course on your actual mixes, and your desired target loudness levels, as to how much limiting you need to do. Shaving a few dBs off your transients and pulling the average level up shouldn't noticeably damage your audio. But more than that, and you are introducing more and more distortion, so let your ears and your gain reduction meters be your guide.

[Stuart79]

Some reading on the topic:
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... ound-great

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... s-dynamics

Worth noting the dates when the articles were published

[sonics]

It's too easy to get a loud master these days, given the tools we have. New mixing techniques like automatic EQ compensation/linking and resonance removal, plus superb look-ahead limiters, for example. We never used to hear music with the tiny LUFS value that we hear today.

What used to be the domain of a skilled professional can now be had for a few dollars using a plugin or an online service. Any improvement from using a human engineer may be very minor indeed.

[Mike Stranks]

Hi Mike. Is there a broadcast processor available that is compatible with garage-band? Also, when you talk about the final mix to stereo, what does that mean exactly, is it done when you are mastering?

I can't remember what platform you're on... PC, Mac, tablet... but you want a plug-in that's compatible with your operating system. The one I use is Windows-only, so may not be appropriate.

Someone here was recently singing the praises of a one-stop-shop, no controls, plugin to increase perceived loudness, but I can't track down the post or plugin.

But, as others have said, you need to be planning your mix as you go - not hoping that some plugin will sort the issues and wave a magic wand. I use my processor in very specific situations to get a sound that will be consistent for broadcast-type applications. I've never used it on music mixes.

And on your other point... forget 'mastering' - at least for now. What I referred to as 'the final mix to stereo' is the point where you've recorded, processed and mixed/blended the tracks, so they sound good on your monitors/headphones. You now need to 'print' a stereo version of what's on your DAW (in your case Garage Band) so that you can release it via Spotify or whatever to your adoring public... That's the 'mix to stereo'...

[tea for two]

There are loads of old SOS articles that might help you get your head around this stuff. But for starters, you might find the article I wrote recently on How To Achieve Better Separation In Your Mixes helpful.

This is a superb article Matt. To have distilled into one article what could be written in a whole book/s is quite some feat.

Most of the answer lies in arrangement, instrumentation/sound selection, performance and mixing techniques. Get that stuff right, and you should find that achieving loudness at stereo bus/mastering stage is actually pretty easy.

+1
This for me is what I do : by ear.
Gain staging is also my go to.

[Matt Houghton]

There are loads of old SOS articles that might help you get your head around this stuff. But for starters, you might find the article I wrote recently on How To Achieve Better Separation In Your Mixes helpful.

This is a superb article Matt. To have distilled into one article what could be written in a whole book/s is quite some feat.

Oh no... you've only gone and made me blush!

[James_AvA]

Hi Mike. Is there a broadcast processor available that is compatible with garage-band? Also, when you talk about the final mix to stereo, what does that mean exactly, is it done when you are mastering?

I can't remember what platform you're on... PC, Mac, tablet... but you want a plug-in that's compatible with your operating system. The one I use is Windows-only, so may not be appropriate.

Someone here was recently singing the praises of a one-stop-shop, no controls, plugin to increase perceived loudness, but I can't track down the post or plugin.

But, as others have said, you need to be planning your mix as you go - not hoping that some plugin will sort the issues and wave a magic wand. I use my processor in very specific situations to get a sound that will be consistent for broadcast-type applications. I've never used it on music mixes.

And on your other point... forget 'mastering' - at least for now. What I referred to as 'the final mix to stereo' is the point where you've recorded, processed and mixed/blended the tracks, so they sound good on your monitors/headphones. You now need to 'print' a stereo version of what's on your DAW (in your case Garage Band) so that you can release it via Spotify or whatever to your adoring public... That's the 'mix to stereo'...

Ok thanks, if you remember the name please let me know. I've' heard of AudioScope that does a lot of functions at the same time.

[Mike Stranks]

Got it! The product is 'Levelator'...

I know nothing about it, whether it would do what you want, if it's any good etc etc.

BTW... if you're interested, I use this for voice work or stuff that's going directly from me 'to air':

https://plugins4free.com/plugin/548/

Only 32-bit, but some DAWS have it native in a 64-bit version... eg mine!

[James_AvA]

Got it! The product is 'Levelator'...

I know nothing about it, whether it would do what you want, if it's any good etc etc.

BTW... if you're interested, I use this for voice work or stuff that's going directly from me 'to air':

https://plugins4free.com/plugin/548/

Only 32-bit, but some DAWS have it native in a 64-bit version... eg mine!

thanks man and thanks to everyone who wrote back to me.

[James_AvA]

Got it! The product is 'Levelator'...

I know nothing about it, whether it would do what you want, if it's any good etc etc.

BTW... if you're interested, I use this for voice work or stuff that's going directly from me 'to air':

https://plugins4free.com/plugin/548/

Only 32-bit, but some DAWS have it native in a 64-bit version... eg mine!

Is this the broadcast processor you were saying? I am going to ask around if it is compatible with garage-band. Many thanks.

https://www.videohelp.com/software/The-Levelator

[James_AvA]

Got it! The product is 'Levelator'...

I know nothing about it, whether it would do what you want, if it's any good etc etc.

BTW... if you're interested, I use this for voice work or stuff that's going directly from me 'to air':

https://plugins4free.com/plugin/548/

Only 32-bit, but some DAWS have it native in a 64-bit version... eg mine!

Is this the broadcast processor you were saying? I am going to ask around if it is compatible with garage-band. Many thanks.

https://www.videohelp.com/software/The-Levelator

You gotta be careful cuz I bought a plugin and then tried to install it into garageband, and then couldn't but then found out, after I bought the ruddy thing that it is not compatible with garage-band and can cause it to crash, and then I would lose all my recordings.

[Mike Stranks]

James: Look at the description you posted. It says it's compatible with Windows and OS X.

If you're running garage band on one of those platforms, then it will work... if you're not, it won't.

I'm done...

[Wonks]

James: Look at the description you posted. It says it's compatible with Windows and OS X.

If you're running garage band on one of those platforms, then it will work... if you're not, it won't.

I'm done...

Afraid not.
Garage Band is Apple only, but could be on OS X or iOS devices. If on a Mac, there are sooooo many versions of OS X and within that there are Intel and Apple (M1 and M2) hardware platforms that require different software to run natively (if at all).

Older plugins may not run on the latest OS X versions, and newer plugs may require a minimum version of OSX to run.

It will certainly need to be an AU format plugin. There may be AAC versions which us an older format which Apple has recently dropped support for, so may run on older OS X/iOS versions but not current ones.

All you can really do is know what OS version and Garageband version you’re on, and look up the details of the plugin to make sure it’s compatible. It’s not as simple as being ‘Mac Compatible’.