Anyone Using a Tape Recorder as an Effect?

[ITHertz]

Hi All,

I know there's been a few articles in SOS over the years about using tape however the most recent one I've come across seems to be about using it for recording in preference to digital (e.g. Buying a Used Tape Machine back in 2010).

I'm interested in using a real tape recorder for saturation, as in using it on parallel kick or snare tracks, or as a parallel with the mix bus - that sort of thing.

Anyone using tape in this way? One thing I'm wondering is whether a "high quality" tape machine has any advantages over a cheaper device as it's the effects of tape that I want and I'll be blending them anyway.

Cheers,

Chris

[Wonks]

Quite a few people do, and you’ll find Arpangel will now dominate this thread. However you’ll also get a lot of people telling you to use a tape sim plug instead.

There’s a lot of fuss simply involved in running and maintaining a tape machine, let alone the cost of tape. If you want really mangled sounds, then it’s less of an issue, but classic tape saturation effects are from a well set up, high quality recorder running good quality tape fed a hot signal.

Sound mangling can be done on any tape machine, but if you want 70s/80s tape saturation sounds (which almost certainly won’t have been run in parallel), then you want a good tape machine.

Parallel tracking will involve some delay compensation as even with a combined record/replay head, there will still be a short time delay which will cause comb filtering issues when combined with the original track. This is on top of the standard round trip processing delay if using the tape as a hardware plugin within the DAW.

And good tape sims come damned close in sound.

[Arpangel]

Hi All,

I know there's been a few articles in SOS over the years about using tape however the most recent one I've come across seems to be about using it for recording in preference to digital (e.g. Buying a Used Tape Machine back in 2010).

I'm interested in using a real tape recorder for saturation, as in using it on parallel kick or snare tracks, or as a parallel with the mix bus - that sort of thing.

Anyone using tape in this way? One thing I'm wondering is whether a "high quality" tape machine has any advantages over a cheaper device as it's the effects of tape that I want and I'll be blending them anyway.

Cheers,

Chris

My experience is that tape, especially a "high quality" machine, can be very good indeed, and to get it to sound distorted, or saturated, you have to really push it over the top, often I’m "disappointed" that my cassette portastudio sounds so good!
I think a plug-in may be better for what you need, and, less hassle, if you just want a little bit of tape "colouration"
I only use tape for extreme effects that you can’t quite get with a plug-in, varispeed, and OTT distortion, but for "normal" recording, tape can sound excellent, and not "obviously tape" as I said, you really have to push it.
A well maintained good quality tape machine, say half inch at 15ips, will sound fabulous, with just a slight edge to give it away against digital, of course noise reduction, or lack of it, will ad to the sound as well.
And these days is it worthwhile? tape machines are pricey now, plus the cost of tape, about £90 for a large reel of quarter inch.

[sonics]

I think the main thing to consider is whether you have the considerable time and the money to invest. A good tape machine will impart its character (and a cheap machine a different one), but the inconsistency of real tape is where it differs from most plugins.

That being said, you can emulate the character of multiple tape machines much more easily with software, and achieve similar (or in my case, more controllable and hence better) results with care, and in much less time than with a real machine.

FYI I started working with tape machines in the early '80s, including alignment duties on Studer, Otari, 3M etc. I've heard a lot of tape!

[tea for two]

Just did a quick giggle search. Although there's plenty tape emulators free and paid for I couldn't locate a sample library of just tape effects.
In my hazy memory were there such available from actual libraries here in blighty to borrow on our library card.

[sonics]

I think we're talking about the effects of a tape machine on sound, not tape machine sound effects!

(Four candles...!)

[tea for two]

(Four candles...!)

Fork handles

[James Perrett]

My experience is that tape, especially a "high quality" machine, can be very good indeed, and to get it to sound distorted, or saturated, you have to really push it over the top, often I’m "disappointed" that my cassette portastudio sounds so good!

I'd have to agree with this. By most people's standards a good tape machine gives a high quality sound - especially if you are dealing with music that has a reasonably low dynamic range. At low speeds you will end up with noticeable blurring of transients and more wow and flutter but at 15 or 30ips you will have to be listening very carefully to hear a difference.

Of course, if you are recording quiet classical or piano music you'll find it easier to hear the imperfections which is why the classical music recordists have embraced digital since it came out.

[ef37a]

Further to Tony's point about having to push a good tape machine hard to get any kind of "effect" from it (I will NOT use the word "saturation"!)?
Many years ago son was trying to do this with a Teac A3440 and I feared for the longevity of the VU meter as it was slammed on the R/H stop pin much of the time! I therefore backed off the meter sensitivity by 20dB so he could drive the bits off that track and the meter only read about mid scale.

But yes, lot of faff. Not least because you will just get it setup right and have the phrase nailed and the tape will run out! "Law of Sod".

Dave.

[Arpangel]

The key to tape "effects" the most important word RANDOM.
Using a real tape machine you get lots of RANDOM random wow, random flutter, random EQ fluctuations, these randomisations aren’t regular SINE WAVE based modulations you often get with emulations and plug-in's, they are truly random electromechanical "stuff" that’s the big difference.
The only plug-in that I’ve come across that does this well is Interrupter Wow And Flutter, it sounds superb, and takes into consideration these random aspects of tape simulation.

[Wonks]

The key to tape "effects" the most important word RANDOM.
Using a real tape machine you get lots of RANDOM random wow, random flutter, random EQ fluctuations, these randomisations aren’t regular SINE WAVE based modulations you often get on emulations and plug-in's, they are truly random electromechanical "stuff" that’s the big difference.
The only plug-in that’s I’ve come across is Interrupter Wow And Flutter, it sounds superb, and takes into consideration these random aspects of tape simulation.

The important word here is 'effects'. Very distinct from normal studio use of a tape recorder where these effects are undesirable and means the tape machine needs attention.

Certainly not effects you'd want to apply to a parallel track where wow and flutter will constantly change the phase relationship between the two tracks. On a multitrack tape, you'd get the same speed variations applied to all tracks so that (logically) shouldn't happen.

[Arpangel]

The key to tape "effects" the most important word RANDOM.
Using a real tape machine you get lots of RANDOM random wow, random flutter, random EQ fluctuations, these randomisations aren’t regular SINE WAVE based modulations you often get on emulations and plug-in's, they are truly random electromechanical "stuff" that’s the big difference.
The only plug-in that’s I’ve come across is Interrupter Wow And Flutter, it sounds superb, and takes into consideration these random aspects of tape simulation.

The important word here is 'effects'. Very distinct from normal studio use of a tape recorder where these effects are undesirable and means the tape machine needs attention.

Certainly not effects you'd want to apply to a parallel track where wow and flutter will constantly change the phase relationship between the two tracks. On a multitrack tape, you'd get the same speed variations applied to all tracks so that (logically) shouldn't happen.

I still think a plug-in will be more than good enough for parallel processing.

[Wonks]

Same here. I don't think the OP was considering wow and flutter and significant frequency loss when talking about tape as an effect, just compression and added 'warmth'.

[Mike Stranks]

Responding to the OP's question... No.

If I want an effect of any sort, I'll use a plugin. In this case, cheaper, more reliable and you won't get effects you weren't looking for.

[ef37a]

Tape "effects" are not really random. Wow by its very definition is a cyclical variation in tape speed and will be a constant for any given deck (though it will get worse over time).
Distortion for any given tape type will always be the same at any particular flux. Often decks were setup for 3%THD at 0 VU and will go up or down with levels away from that (mainly 3thrd harmonics IIRC? One reason why tape is 'orrible!)

The HF response will also 'squash' in a predictable manner for any given tape and bias setting. One hopes the record and payback amplifiers have enough headroom but that might not be true for a 'modern' high output tape and very old electronics.

If what is meant by "random" is using a badly maintained machine and throwing any old gash tape on it? Maybe!

One of the finest "mastering" tape machines I ever saw a review of was a very expensive Telefunken (don't have the number) One of those would deliver really superb audio but I have not seen one mentioned anywhere for a good 20 years.

Dave.

[James Perrett]

One of the finest "mastering" tape machines I ever saw a review of was a very expensive Telefunken (don't have the number) One of those would deliver really superb audio but I have not seen one mentioned anywhere for a good 20 years.

There are still a few M15s around but they seem to be more popular in Europe than in this country. Used prices don't seem too bad compared to other makes.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I think BBC Radio had a lot of Telefunken M15s at Broadcasting House, along with loads of Studer A80s — the M15s felt like huge machines when I first came across them, but were very fast to lace up. The TV side seemed to mostly use physically smaller Studer machines like B67s, A810s, A812s, and A807s.

[tea for two]

Interrupter Wow And Flutter, it sounds superb,

I might give this a go on my WTF album.

Most of the times I don't want tape simulation on my music pieces. What I want is sound of tape effects to use as a backdrop, as an interlude, intro, also probably to chop it up make something out of it.
For which there are online downloadable such libraries I just found out.

Re: Studer
SoS article on JmJarre 1990 : A820 was used on his Revolution (some African Mali, Japanese, Sufi inspired) and Waiting for Cousteau (Caribbean inspired) albums.
https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/the- ... jarre/5812
Blue box right at bottom of article.
Waiting for Cousteau (1990) 46minutes title track for me is one of the finest commercially released ambient mediative.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pH2UxxdXA ... c3RlYXU%3D

[RichardT]

Hi All,

I know there's been a few articles in SOS over the years about using tape however the most recent one I've come across seems to be about using it for recording in preference to digital (e.g. Buying a Used Tape Machine back in 2010).

I'm interested in using a real tape recorder for saturation, as in using it on parallel kick or snare tracks, or as a parallel with the mix bus - that sort of thing.

Anyone using tape in this way? One thing I'm wondering is whether a "high quality" tape machine has any advantages over a cheaper device as it's the effects of tape that I want and I'll be blending them anyway.

Cheers,

Chris

According to the latest SOS magazine, Marta Salogni uses tape machines a lot, including on the latest Depeche Mode album.

I think the best reason for using a real deck is that it would be more fun than using a plugin. But using a plugin will give you more flexibility every time.

Personally I don’t like the saturated sound much and rarely use it but I do use distortion effects - another advantage of using a plugin (though I use one built into Cubase mostly). Many plugins combine saturation and more blatant distortion effects which gives you many more options.

[tea for two]

Hi All,

I'm interested in using a real tape recorder for saturation, as in using it on parallel kick or snare tracks, or as a parallel with the mix bus - that sort of thing.

Hi there.

There is Kramer Master Tape by waves.
https://www.waves.com/plugins/kramer-master-tape
I really can't comment on it. We had a discussion here about waves and their policies lol.
£26 in Thomann.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/waves_kramer_ ... gI58_D_BwE
But before spending £26 preehaps worthwhile checking out Free plugins such as Interrupter Wow And Flutter mentioned by ArpAngel.
http://www.interruptor.ch/vst_donationware.shtml

[Arpangel]

Tape "effects" are not really random. Wow by its very definition is a cyclical variation in tape speed and will be a constant for any given deck (though it will get worse over time).
Distortion for any given tape type will always be the same at any particular flux. Often decks were setup for 3%THD at 0 VU and will go up or down with levels away from that (mainly 3thrd harmonics IIRC? One reason why tape is 'orrible!)

The HF response will also 'squash' in a predictable manner for any given tape and bias setting. One hopes the record and payback amplifiers have enough headroom but that might not be true for a 'modern' high output tape and very old electronics.

If what is meant by "random" is using a badly maintained machine and throwing any old gash tape on it? Maybe!

One of the finest "mastering" tape machines I ever saw a review of was a very expensive Telefunken (don't have the number) One of those would deliver really superb audio but I have not seen one mentioned anywhere for a good 20 years.

Dave.

"Not really random" that’s good enough.