Mixing Backing tracks using my PA

[bobpsax]

Hello all...I mix midi sequences with Virtual Instruments in Cubase. I would mix the track with JBL studio monitors with a JBL sub, when I played it through my PA in my studio it never sounded as good as when I mixed using my PA as my monitors. I am mixing for live playing only. Sounds great when finished...two Bose L1 pro32 with two Sub2's.

I figure it's exactly what my audience will hear, and I may have to teak bass a bit on site. But The sound in my studio is great. My techie cringes but I am doing it for a specific use...comments or suggestions? Thanks.

[Music Wolf]

I have a similar situation. My band (2x live guitars / vocals) perform with backing tracks which we have created ourselves in my home studio (MIDI drums & keys, real bass, additional backing vocals). The backing is mixed as 5 stems: Drums & Percussion, Bass Guitar, Keyboards, B Vocals, Click Track / Count In (the count is fed only to the monitors). Both live guitars use modellers direct to PA.

My initial mix was carried out in my home studio working on Neumann KH80 monitors (no sub) and checking on headphones. In order to make the process manageable, and to make the finished result more comparable with a live band, I used the same virtual drum kit (in Superior Drummer 3.0) and the same bass guitar / Kemper profile across all tracks. Once I had the initial mix we played through the entire set in the practice room and I recorded the live guitars / vocals from the our digital desk (Behringer XR-18). These were recorded as multitrack, pre-fader, but without altering the input gain during the session.

Next step was to remix the tracks in the studio taking the recorded lead vocal as a reference. i.e. I set the lead vocal, inc reverb and EQ, and kept that constant between songs then mixed the rest of tracks around it. Because the guitars are through modellers we can adjust the patches song by song to get a balance.

Now to the question of PA vs studio monitors. It’s not practical, nor socially acceptable, for me to mix through my PA at home. All playback systems are different (system = speakers and the acoustics of the room). Normally you would mix on the most neutral system available (in my case the Neumanns and a partially treated room) in order to get a mix which would work across other systems. In this case we always use our own PA (Yamaha DXR powered cabs) which will be some way from being neutral. For that reason we go back into the practice room, set up our own PA, and run through the set. At this stage we’re not even bothered about getting all the way through the songs, we’re just tweaking the mixer settings for our 5 stems / live feeds.

Now we gig

At each gig I record the FoH mix, so that’s backing and live tracks, post fader, as a stereo wav. Back home I play this mix back through my studio monitors and take notes. I don’t worry too much about the overall mix, particularly the bottom end and the amount of reverb. I’m more focussed on whether things are consistent song to song. This is especially the case if we’ve brought in new songs which haven’t gone through the full ‘maturing’ process. The next time that we’re in the practice room (we only practice together if we have big gaps in our live schedule) I’ll play back a selection of live stereo recordings through the PA at volume to check the bottom end.

You just have to keep going around the loop getting better each time.

[Wonks]

I think it’s fine to mix for a specific system if that’s the only thing it will be played through.

The downside is, as has been mentioned, is that you are going to get the PA sounding different in different venues, where the room modes will be different to your mixing environment, so you risk it either sounding bass light or too boomy.

But if you have some means of adjusting the PA response e.g. hardware or software 31-band EQ and do so for each venue, then you can compensate for that to a large extent. You’ll never get it perfect, but you should be able to get it close enough.

Should you then use the backing tracks along with other instruments & vocals to produce tracks you want to release, then I’d mix those on the studio monitors.

[Music Wolf]

If you are performing and mixing it is worth emphasising the need to record your total mix and listen back (whilst not playing). I’ve found that people hear things differently when they are playing as opposed to listening. I’ve had a few guys ask for their volume to be increased whilst performing then, when they hear the playback, they ask ‘was I really that loud?’ Well yes, you were. I’m the opposite, I tend to mix myself too low whilst playing.

[bobpsax]

Thanks for awesome responses. My room is small, treated, the mixes I create sound great as mixed with my Bose system. I had Bose classic L1 (two) with 4 subs...that sounded good, but the new system blows it away. I mix my tracks, mike up and play my sax to the mixes to see if sax actually sounds good with the song. Some songs I like just don't sound good on sax, others sound great. I'm not concerned how it will sound on youtube, in a car, a home audio system, just how it will sound live. I love the fact the the Bose system can be behind me and I hear exactly what the audience will here. I hate floor monitors and in ear monitors. I want to hear my surroundings. Those that put down on Bose are usually those that can't afford them. I think Bose audio is great. I invested in the Bose L1 Pro32 with 2 sub2's to get clarity and room coverage. I think mastering is subjective. I want to sound with backing tracks the way I want to be heard. I have had a couple of studios master a song or two to get an A/B my mastered vs theirs and I did not see enough of a difference. I really don't care what is socially acceptable or politically correct. Never have. Nice to know other are doing similar to me. There will always be critics out there no matter how good or bad you are as a musician. Playing to tracks as a sax player, I feel the need to mix with a tight puchy kick and bass, crisp snare and high had...everyone loves a tight low end...or why would there be subs and 10 to 15 speakers in cars, and living rooms. I try to mix my bass and kick especailly so you feel its punch. The two sub2's really give that to you.

[Hugh Robjohns]

As a general rule, PAs are louder than studio monitors, and mixing at a louder level is generally both easier and balances are less critical than mixing at lower volumes. Mixes also tend to have a wider dynamic which doesn't really work satisdactorily with a lower monitoring level.

PAs — especially systems like the Bose — also tend to flatter the mix, particularly at the low end.

So, if you're building a mix that will only be used over the PA in a live situation then I think it's an acceptable approach to mix with the PA system.... but if the same mix is intended for release on a streaming platform etc there's a good chance that mix may be disappointing.

Personally, though, I think I'd want to know what it was about my JBL system and mix room monitoring conditions (or my mix technique) that was causing those mixes to translate so poorly to the PA.

[bobpsax]

I appreciate the response. I just liked the sound of my mixes better through my Bose L1 classics than the jbl. Never seemed to get the sound I was after when using the studio monitors. As you said I may need to adjust the low end which I can do with the phone app from bose on site. But as you said for my intent...it works. If I am going to record I'll most likely have to remix. At 65 I'm not looking to post recordings, just on my buket list to go out and perform again, and at a point that I can get any gear I want including horns.