Jack Ruston's nutrition article

[tea for two]

There are things as Hindu Yogic eating but I go with what my immune system, metabolism, genes can handle. I already mentioned chicken, meats and too much veg causes me problems as does too much soya protein, certain fish doesn't agree with me.

Once in a blue moon I purchase lucozade, ginger beer : that's the extent of my fizzy pop intake.
I've transitioned to non alcoholic Gin which is as expensive as standard Gin WTF. I purchased Clean Co Pink Gin non alcoholic £17 a 70cl bottle.

Dark chocolate 85%-95%, Oat biscuits, Rye crackers are the only types I purchase.
I consume Pulses. Also Pasata : tomato smoothie as Pasata is supposed to stave off bowel cancer 50p-£1 a 500ml carton.
I consume raw broccoli raw carrots every now and then.
I try to keep in stock raw green chilli, garlic, ginger, limes, onions red, turmeric, turmeric medicinally is supposed to be 8th wonder of the world.
I will binge on beetroot if I feel low on energy.

I avoid 100% fruit juice for diabetes reasons just incase I have type2.
My sugar intake is via Mejoul (me Julie Ali G ) style Dates around 2 a day alongside seasional fruits from market, fruit veg store.
I read somewhere there are Bedouins that can last on 1date 1cup of water a day.
Although I like the occasional ice cream esp when by the seaside.

Cheese is my guilty pleasure although I gotta watch me arteries. Full English brekkie vegeterian is also my guilty pleasure. Sweet potato fries is my go to.

For snacking its various nuts, I avoid crisps most of the time although once in a bluemoon quavers, wotsits.

[Jack Ruston]

I had heard too that those who eat the most fruit and veg have a slight 'buffer' against some of the effects of food with cancer risk factors.

Yeah the highest intake of fresh fruit and vegetables appears to negate the highest intake of red meat. It's worth noting that higher intakes of meat may not represent a significant increase in risk over 'any' intake of meat - in other words, the advice to cut meat back a little bit may simply increase all-cause mortality while not really fully negating that small risk of colorectal cancer.

[Jack Ruston]

I believe it's something like 40 eggs a day you'd need to eat to put you at risk.
Butter is another one, in the 70s and 80s the 'science' bought and paid for by corporations trying to promote their 'I can't believe it's not butter' products pushed this crap out. Now of course the evidence is showing its not butter we should be worried about its heavily processed seed oils.

Personally, I'd be far more worried about sugar, processed foods and low grade carbs we fill ourselves up on daily.

Indeed. And of course anyone who's worried about saturated fat, or is trying to control caloric intake can control the number of yolks vs whites. I quite often eat 3 whole eggs, but add 6 whites to push the protein up if I need to. We have to be a little bit mindful about raw whites because there's a small risk of contamination from the shell, but mainly because avidin in the whites binds biotin in the GI tract. Cooking them largely destroys it, but I think it's worth taking in some yolks in any event to add biotin, but also for the incredible nutrient content.

The seed oil thing is a little scary. I don't think we need to worry about small quantities of cold-pressed poly-unsaturated oils. The problem is that large quantities of oxidised, hexane-extracted PUFA are at the core of so many processed foods, monogastric animal feeds, fried foods, restaurant foods, takeaways, confectionary etc etc. The list is endless. The stuff is so cheap. The signal around harms is mixed, but as our understanding of the pathology of cardio vascular disease unfolds, it's starting to look like these easily oxidised fatty acids are increasing oxidised lipoproteins, reducing particle size etc. It's a bad picture. Of course oxidation and reactive oxygen species are an essential part human physiology, but we buffer those with endogenous antioxidants. If we overwhelm that system we end up with damage. We don't have to rely on these oils any event - we can lean on extra virgin olive oil, which we know is good choice. It's monounsaturated so less prone to reacting, and the polyphenolic compounds it contains are powerfully antioxidant.

It's not lost on me that all these things I'm recommending - eggs, good-quality animal proteins, extra virgin olive oil are expensive. I alluded to political factors previously. If we were to change dietary guidelines to improve health, many people wouldn't be able to afford to make those changes. We'd also run out of these higher quality foods, which would drive the price up even further. This is big can of worms, which of course we would likely end up eating.

[Jack Ruston]

Thanks for the info Jack. I've been vegetarian since 11 into my 50s, never touched fish flesh or fowl since, simply because I don't like the idea. I consume plenty of eggs and cheese though; feel OK so far, hopefully survive a bit longer. I've known a couple of vegans but none who have stuck with it, and it sounds like that's probably just as well.

The main thing is just to make sure that you're maintaining lean mass and thriving. If you can do that on the foods you're happy with, great!

[Jack Ruston]

I consume raw broccoli raw carrots every now and then.

You might find broccoli sprouts easier, and they're very much higher in sulforaphane, if that's what you're after.

My sugar intake is via Mejoul (me Julie Ali G ) style Dates around 2 a day

They are the most delicious thing on earth, but you have to watch the blood sugar! They can make it go crazy!

Cheese is my guilty pleasure although I gotta watch me arteries.

Dairy fat can certainly increase LDL in some people. But full-fat dairy seems to be cardioprotective. This is part of the paradox around our model of heart disease progression. Most people agree that higher LDL increases risk, but this doesn't always pan out. The size of those apoB particles, how easily they oxidise, whether they're damaged by glycation and so not taken up by the liver etc etc....it's a picture of both the particles and their environment.

Full English brekkie vegeterian is also my guilty pleasure. Sweet potato fries is my go to. For snacking its various nuts, I avoid crisps most of the time although once in a bluemoon quavers, wotsits.

Just be wary of those polyunsaturated oils. Use EVOO for the fries. You can get some crisps cooked in olive oil. I can't remember the brand. These sorts of things are becoming more common as people start to question the wisdom of processed seed oils.

[tea for two]

So nice you've taken the time thought to reply Nutritionist formerly known as Jack

Brocoli sprouts I shall look them up.
Tru about blood sugar from Mejoul (me Julie) dates. I get headaches if I consume too much : for this reason I don't consume even Manuka honey.
Strong tasting Extra Mature Cheddar, Blue Stilton, Gorgonzola for me : none of that wimpy tasting cheese lol.
EVOO aha shall purchase for when I do Chinese stir fry on my Wok. I use a Halogen oven for most things. Just recently acquired a Raclette grill it's the bee's knees they start at approx £27.

[Jack Ruston]

So nice you've taken the time thought to reply Nutritionist formerly known as Jack

Tru about blood sugar from Mejoul (me Julie) dates. I get headaches if I consume too much...

It's a pleasure.

Ha yeah I see double if eat more than about three of them. Recently my dad did a week on a continuous glucose monitor, and discovered that his breakfast was causing spikes of 12 mmol or something faintly terrifying. Muesli. It might be the oats, which do have that effect in some people, but scanning the ingredients, pretty near the top...DATES!

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Hi folks - sorry I didn't jump back in on this yesterday. It was a crazy day.

Tomas, just to say in advance that I really do appreciate your posts here, the fact that you're questioning this and calling out the contradictions. Thank you for taking the time to talk about it.

Thank you Jack, a pleasure. Yea there's a lot to take in there. It'll take a while... Is one of those links the meta-analysis you mentioned earlier?

(collapses)

Sorry about that

[Jack Ruston]

Sorry about that

Ha it's not you, it's just that there are endless levels of nuance to the whole subject. When I wrote the piece we had to take a decision on the level of detail that people would find practical in a magazine article. It seemed sensible to keep it simple in print, and then dig deeper here on the forum if needs be. So I finished the piece and sent it in to Sam, and it was still 10k words.

[Jack Ruston]

Is one of those links the meta-analysis you mentioned earlier?

Yep.

[Folderol]

Very interesting article (and discussion). Mostly I just try to vary my diet as much as possible... without it getting expensive!

P.S. I don't touch dates at all - can't stand them!

[Richard Benn]

I've just read the original article, and whilst I fully endorse the main thrust of the article - eat less processed food - the repeated attacks on plant based diets seemed a little unnecessary and, dare I say it, partisan, particularly when there is so much good and up to date science supporting plant based alternatives.

If you need links, a good place to start would be https://nutritionfacts.org/

Hope this helps.

Richard

[Drew Stephenson]

I have no skin in this game but I'm not sure that the above site is exactly unbiased.

[Eddy Deegan]

I have no skin in this game but I'm not sure that the above site is exactly unbiased.

Agreed. A quick search for the site founder reveals him to be very anti-meat in all forms and whereas there are some good aspects to his recomendations he's something of a controversial figure making claims that simply don't stack up.

I'd also question his neutrality as he is also a Research Advisory Committee member of The Vegan Society.

[Jack Ruston]

Yeah, that's Michael Greger's site. He's kind of the vegan poster-child - all in on that lifestyle, and while I do believe that he genuinely believes in it, unlike some more cynical people in that world, I fear that his judgement is clouded by his ethical agenda. I could point you to many people on both the clinical and research sides who would argue that he's causing harm...

This isn't controversial - a vegan diet is entirely absent a number of key nutrients, and it excludes the most nutrient-dense foods we have available to us. To some extent we can supplement around it, but for many people that simply doesn't work over time. This is likely because the ability to convert the plant versions of many nutrients to their bioavailable forms is bio individual - genetically predetermined; and because the diet relies on so many foods that are nutrient-binding, and so make this problem worse. Furthermore, mass spectrometry reveals thousands of compounds in whole foods for which we don't even have names, let alone an understanding of how important they might be. When we take out this whole category of animal foods, which have formed the vast majority of our diet for the past few million years, an evolution in which no human population has ever successfully been vegan, it's unsurprising that the wheels come off for most people.

Vegetarian - harder than omnivore, harder for some people than others, but often very doable.

[RichardT]

If you’re experienced in reading science papers, and know how to distinguish good studies from bad, to find out what the latest science says I think the best thing to do is to use Google Scholar to find the latest reviews.

Even official health service websites don't fully reflect up to date science as they don't update their guidelines in real time, and when they do update them, the process takes some time.

They may also be relatively conservative in what they say in order to avoid changing their guidelines too much over time as this confuses people and leads to a lack of trust.

People tend to think that scientific results are definite and fixed, but that's very far from being the case.

[RichardT]

I have no skin in this game but I'm not sure that the above site is exactly unbiased.

For me the name is a red flag in itself. It immediately made me suspicious that the site might have a strong agenda.

[tea for two]

Jack also has an article in this month's SoS related to stress for musicians ways we can circumvent stress as musicians.

As a person that was for pretty much the past decade continually anxious when outdoors seeing people just walking past them made me anxious whatever age gender they were, anxious panicking interacting with people wherever online on phone in person no matter who they were : family, friends, colleagues, forum, people of similar interests, day to day interactions.
Having locked myself away for months on end, tried various techniques suggested by thereapists, been on medication.

I can say I'm past these now for good. I thought I never would be but I am just from late last year 2022.
That's a whole nother story lol.

Here's one thing that instantly worked for me that I discovered around 2019 or mebe earlier to relieve my anxiety panic stress momentarily.
Opening my mouth halfway, keeping my mouth open, sticking my tongue out just past my lower lip for a few minutes until I was past the anxiety panic causing situation.
Try it see if it works for you albeit momentarily as a quick fix.

[Jack Ruston]

If you’re experienced in reading science papers, and know how to distinguish good studies from bad, to find out what the latest science says I think the best thing to do is to use Google Scholar to find the latest reviews.

Even official health service websites don't fully reflect up to date science as they don't update their guidelines in real time, and when they do update them, the process takes some time.

They may also be relatively conservative in what they say in order to avoid changing their guidelines too much over time as this confuses people and leads to a lack of trust.

People tend to think that scientific results are definite and fixed, but that's very far from being the case.

Well said.

Honestly there are so many tricks used in study design and data analysis that one sometimes needs to have expert knowledge when spotting where researchers have manipulated findings. I tend to rely on 3rd party analysis of these things, which come often in podcast form. People like Chris Masterjohn, for example, will tend to give balanced views on how reliable a study might be, and analysis of the methods employed. I also use the paid version of examine.com to some degree, but that’s less detailed.

[Richard Benn]

I find it quite strange that you feel the need to belittle someone just because they don't agree with you. Dr Greger is a US doctor who reviews scientific studies from around the world and summarises them. Yes, his research has led him to conclude that there are benefits to a plant based diet and he actively promotes that via his nutritionfacts.org website. That doesn't alter the scientific studies he reports on.

I would have thought that someone with a genuine interest in nutrition would welcome more diverse opinions, even if they don't agree with them?

[nathanscribe]

So what you're saying Jack is that every studio should keep a cow.

I was amused by finishing an article on nutrition with "next time we'll take a look at movement". Did a double take on that one...

Regarding the sentiments expressed through this thread, I'll add that I've been vegetarian since 1995, for a while with the occasional exception of fish, which I no longer eat as it no longer agrees with me – but there is, shockingly, a long history of people not eating meat, and being fine. Back in the 90s you were lucky to get more than a tomato pasta dish in a pub, let alone the rich array of what's out there now. Many places would just roll their eyes and plenty of times I had relatives and friends say "can't you just order [X] and pick the meat out". Thankfully, things have moved on.

[Jack Ruston]

So what you're saying Jack is that every studio should keep a cow.

I was amused by finishing an article on nutrition with "next time we'll take a look at movement". Did a double take on that one...

Regarding the sentiments expressed through this thread, I'll add that I've been vegetarian since 1995, for a while with the occasional exception of fish, which I no longer eat as it no longer agrees with me – but there is, shockingly, a long history of people not eating meat, and being fine. Back in the 90s you were lucky to get more than a tomato pasta dish in a pub, let alone the rich array of what's out there now. Many places would just roll their eyes and plenty of times I had relatives and friends say "can't you just order [X] and pick the meat out". Thankfully, things have moved on.

Things certainly have moved on. I’ll reiterate - throughout this I’ve stressed that there can be plenty of animal foods in a vegetarian diet, and while some people don’t thrive in that context, possibly because their intake of those foods is so low, many do. I’m cautioning against the dangers of an entirely plant-based diet.

[Jack Ruston]

I find it quite strange that you feel the need to belittle someone just because they don't agree with you.

I’m sorry you feel that my comments were belittling.

[Jack Ruston]

I wanted to reiterate my acknowledgement of how divisive this topic can be. Almost every human motivation comes back to food or sex, and we feel significant discordance when people disagree with the way we go about either

Seriously, I appreciate everyone giving their time and energy to this discussion, whether they support my take or strongly disagree. Thank you for your input.