Nearfields Monitors: Kali vs Adam vs Focal

[tea for two]

I like mixing early in the morning. I find after giving my ears a chance to rest from the previous day's noise, my judgement is better in the early morning.
Also there's far less surrounding outside noise so that helps me as well.
I couldn't mix on monitors, speakers, in the mornings as I live in a flat.
Headphones it is.
Premium Sound in Kensington, London, they let me audition over 2hours nearly a dozen headphones all the way up to £3K. Auditioning is downstairs so there's some privacy. Really accomodating staff. They just left me to it.

I know hearing the sound from monitors speakers is preferred by many. However, if there are other things to consider as neighbours, unsociable hours we like to mix, then we don't have much of a choice except to go headphones. More so if we don't have a separate acoustically treated studio room, only lounge/bedroom/kitchen to mix in.
Whereupon it's well worth taking a train journey to audition headphones to choose the ones suitable for the music we make mix especially if we are going to drop £1K+ on cans.

[ef37a]

Can I inject a question and perhaps a note of caution here Tea for Two?

You say you do not use speakers because of a possible upset to neighbours? Well, unsocial hours apart, maybe you are running them at too high a level and the cans as well?
I am sat here listening to a Beethoven piano trio some two mtrs from my Tannoy 5As and find the volume level perfectly 'natural' and on a meter that is indicating 65 to 70 dBC average with the finale peak at 78dBC. Tom McKinney is in fact louder on average than the music! I find that level for music quite satisfactory and I am registered deaf!
I switched to R1 (the sacrifices I make for this forum!) and cranked the volume to an average of 85dBC. Too loud for me and could be a nuisance at 1am!

Hugh has 'done' monitor calibration at least a couple of times this decade? The usual level suggested for monitors is 83dBC but Hugh has always stated I understand that the low 80s is often too loud for a 'domestic' situation and 10dB lower is more acceptable. By just my personal preference and luck that is where I seem to be!

So I am saying Tea, you should not be annoying folk, at least not at civilized times and you 'might' be running cans at damaging levels?

Dave.

[tea for two]

Can I inject a question and perhaps a note of caution here Tea for Two?
I am saying Tea, you should not be annoying folk, at least not at civilized times and you 'might' be running cans at damaging levels?

Appreciated E.

I started mixing just after 7am lol.
It's cause I'm currently working on an EDM album with some heavy beatz low Bass. It's the only EDM album I've made.
Most of my other stuff I can mix at low volume which I tend to do.
My ears are slightly damaged over years of abuse, more so my left ear. Even though I can hear 20Hz I have to increase to +3dB on a Sine Wave Test Tone in Logic Oscillator to properly hear 20Hz.

[ef37a]

Can I inject a question and perhaps a note of caution here Tea for Two?
I am saying Tea, you should not be annoying folk, at least not at civilized times and you 'might' be running cans at damaging levels?

Appreciated E.

I started mixing just after 7am lol.
It's cause I'm currently working on an EDM album with some heavy beatz low Bass. It's the only EDM album I've made.
Most of my other stuff I can mix at low volume which I tend to do.
My ears are slightly damaged over years of abuse, more so my left ear. Even though I can hear 20Hz I have to increase to +3dB on a Sine Wave Test Tone in Logic Oscillator to properly hear 20Hz.

WHY on earth are you struggling to hear 20Hz Tea?!! There is nothing remotely musical going on down there and only the very biggest speakers in a huge room could reproduce it.

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

T42 is currently immersed in an EDM-fest which involves a deep rumbly bass. It's intended for playback on big club and festival PAs which can generate 20Hz.

Although while we can, technically, hear 20Hz, in practice we feel it which obviously isn't something that can be done over headphones.

[tea for two]

I have lost meself to EDM for my sins

[muzines]

Anyone mixing bangin' beats at 7am* gets my sympathy**..!

* (after getting up, not staying out all night)

** As do their neighbours...

[ore_terra]

After reading this post and others I was nearly decided to get a pair of the new kh120, but this add came up with a “VAT-less day” in a local store… and I just pulled the trigger for a pair of A7V’s for 1050€

[Arpangel]

Anyone mixing bangin' beats at 7am* gets my sympathy**..!

* (after getting up, not staying out all night)

** As do their neighbours...

Sounds dope Bro.

[tea for two]

What could possibly be handy is if there was a software where we could draw our room including windows doors ceiling floor, with measurements angles, alongside what the room is constructed of.
Have it with and without Virtual acoustic treatment.
Thereafter have various Virtual Monitors virtually placed in different parts of our virtual room to hear them.

Similar in principle in a way to drum software where we can change the drums size, skin, mic positioning, types or mics.
Similar in principle in a way to amp cab modelling simulating software.
Similar in principle in a way to software that attempts to emulate simulate sound of different studios.

[Arpangel]

What could possibly be handy is if there was a software where we could draw our room including windows doors ceiling floor, with measurements angles, alongside what the room is constructed of.
Have it with and without Virtual acoustic treatment.
Thereafter have various Virtual Monitors virtually placed in different parts of our virtual room to hear them.

Similar in principle in a way to drum software where we can change the drums size, skin, mic positioning, types or mics.
Similar in principle in a way to amp cab modelling simulating software.
Similar in principle in a way to software that attempts to emulate simulate sound of different studios.

A friend went round a few top London studios and made recordings in the control room of each one using a binaural head with two B&K 4006 mic's in it.
That was an "interesting" "experiment" ?
He also recorded my hi-fi in my living room, a pair of Celestion Dutton 15 speakers, surprisingly, my recording sounded better, than some of the studios, maybe better isn’t a good word, but let’s say it held up well.
Not sure about virtual room software? could be a whole can of worms there.

[ore_terra]

What could possibly be handy is if there was a software where we could draw our room including windows doors ceiling floor, with measurements angles, alongside what the room is constructed of.
Have it with and without Virtual acoustic treatment.
Thereafter have various Virtual Monitors virtually placed in different parts of our virtual room to hear them.

Similar in principle in a way to drum software where we can change the drums size, skin, mic positioning, types or mics.
Similar in principle in a way to amp cab modelling simulating software.
Similar in principle in a way to software that attempts to emulate simulate sound of different studios.

Well, in theory you can. In the end it’s “just” wave physics.

The only tiny little problem is the huge amount of variables you have. Materials, thicknesses, surface finishes, geometry, openings…

But the same way structural design softwares exist (thinking of similar multi-variable scenarios based in physics and statistical calculations), I dont see why this software could not exist.

[ConcertinaChap]

After reading this post and others I was nearly decided to get a pair of the new kh120, but this add came up with a “VAT-less day” in a local store… and I just pulled the trigger for a pair of A7V’s for 1050€

Hope you enjoy them as much as I'm enjoying my new KH120 II's.

CC

[RichardT]

After reading this post and others I was nearly decided to get a pair of the new kh120, but this add came up with a “VAT-less day” in a local store… and I just pulled the trigger for a pair of A7V’s for 1050€

Hope you enjoy them as much as I'm enjoying my new KH120 II's.

CC

How much better are they than the original KH120s, CC?

[ore_terra]

After reading this post and others I was nearly decided to get a pair of the new kh120, but this add came up with a “VAT-less day” in a local store… and I just pulled the trigger for a pair of A7V’s for 1050€

Hope you enjoy them as much as I'm enjoying my new KH120 II's.

CC

I kind of suspect I’d have enjoyed the KH120II’s a bit more… so please be quiet

[Drew Stephenson]

What could possibly be handy is if there was a software where we could draw our room including windows doors ceiling floor, with measurements angles, alongside what the room is constructed of.
Have it with and without Virtual acoustic treatment.
Thereafter have various Virtual Monitors virtually placed in different parts of our virtual room to hear them.

Similar in principle in a way to drum software where we can change the drums size, skin, mic positioning, types or mics.
Similar in principle in a way to amp cab modelling simulating software.
Similar in principle in a way to software that attempts to emulate simulate sound of different studios.

Well, in theory you can. In the end it’s “just” wave physics.

The only tiny little problem is the huge amount of variables you have. Materials, thicknesses, surface finishes, geometry, openings…

But the same way structural design softwares exist (thinking of similar multi-variable scenarios based in physics and statistical calculations), I dont see why this software could not exist.

Sounds like a job for some kind of AI...


No, seriously, it's this kind of stuff that AI could be really good at. Not just for studios and music rooms, but for modelling the effects of sounds in public spaces, transmission through structures, performance of absorbers and reflectors etc. etc. etc.

[ore_terra]

That would be an interesting exercise, yes.

[tea for two]

Saw this just today. Ultra Near Field Kali Audio IN‑UNF.
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/kali-audio-in-unf
Paul's review.

"Developed specifically for desktop monitoring, the design takes into account desktop reflections and also incorporates adjustable EQ to compensate for the boundary effect of working close to walls."
"Note that the bass unit needs to be located on a desktop"
"Not having to worry about the placement of a floor‑standing sub takes a lot of guesswork out of setting up reliable monitoring."
"The way the satellites rest in their cradles makes it easy to aim the tweeters towards your ears, and there are detailed instructions on the Kali website if you need to adjust the DIP switches to account for room placement"
"four‑inch midrange driver and one‑inch soft‑dome tweeter as Kali’s respected IN‑5 and IN‑8 monitors."

https://www.kaliaudio.com/in-unf
Seems right up my street from the various nearfield monitors reviewed by SoS.
https://www.soundonsound.com/search/all ... ld+monitor

Righty O time to start saving me pennies at 100pennies a day lol : 2025 JanFeb.
Any monitor named after a Hindu Goddess gets my devotion.

::

Just a little segway.
Stumbled upon this utube interview uploaded 3days earlier.
Gentleman wrongly imprisoned 3Decades 30years whilst in his 20s.
His outlook is bloomin marvelous.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1p8j_vGSAdw

[ef37a]

Assuming the car gets through its July MOT with minimal cost and 'things' either stay much the same or possibly improve, I can start considering some new monitors again in 2024(ish)

I might be wrong because speaker technology has advanced since my 5As were designed (C 2000?) but I do not want to go smaller than a 5" woofer. The Tannoys give remarkably good bass for their size and I would want even better and louder! (but in the way of headroom and not headbanging rock levels).

I keep flipping and flopping from the Result 6 and the wonderful things I hear about the KH120/150s but then someone pops up with a 'software' problem and I am back to the Sixes with their totally analogue technology.

If I had a pair of 'digi-techy' speakers and they went wrong I would lose my **** like the farmer in Shaun the Sheep!

Dave.

[ConcertinaChap]

How much better are they than the original KH120s, CC?

Not a great deal in it so far, but then I haven't pushed them or performed the MA1 magic spell yet. I've got the mic but due to other priorities intervening I won't be able to use it for a week or two. Will report back when I've done that.

CC

[Arpangel]

Assuming the car gets through its July MOT with minimal cost and 'things' either stay much the same or possibly improve, I can start considering some new monitors again in 2024(ish)

I might be wrong because speaker technology has advanced since my 5As were designed (C 2000?) but I do not want to go smaller than a 5" woofer. The Tannoys give remarkably good bass for their size and I would want even better and louder! (but in the way of headroom and not headbanging rock levels).

I keep flipping and flopping from the Result 6 and the wonderful things I hear about the KH120/150s but then someone pops up with a 'software' problem and I am back to the Sixes with their totally analogue technology.

If I had a pair of 'digi-techy' speakers and they went wrong I would lose my **** like the farmer in Shaun the Sheep!

Dave.

Dave, we are both of "a certain age" and I think our hearing is too!
Sounds like you love your Tannoys, the way you talk about them, I’d hold on to them in that case.
Also, I don’t think speaker technology hasn’t moved on to an extent where it’s made a huge difference in terms of what we’re hearing today, and, it’s all too easy to jump out of the frying pan into the fire with monitors, stick with what you know if it does the job.

[ef37a]

Assuming the car gets through its July MOT with minimal cost and 'things' either stay much the same or possibly improve, I can start considering some new monitors again in 2024(ish)

I might be wrong because speaker technology has advanced since my 5As were designed (C 2000?) but I do not want to go smaller than a 5" woofer. The Tannoys give remarkably good bass for their size and I would want even better and louder! (but in the way of headroom and not headbanging rock levels).

I keep flipping and flopping from the Result 6 and the wonderful things I hear about the KH120/150s but then someone pops up with a 'software' problem and I am back to the Sixes with their totally analogue technology.

If I had a pair of 'digi-techy' speakers and they went wrong I would lose my **** like the farmer in Shaun the Sheep!

Dave.

Dave, we are both of "a certain age" and I think our hearing is too!
Sounds like you love your Tannoys, the way you talk about them, I’d hold on to them in that case.
Also, I don’t think speaker technology hasn’t moved on to an extent where it’s made a huge difference in terms of what we’re hearing today, and, it’s all too easy to jump out of the frying pan into the fire with monitors, stick with what you know if it does the job.

I doubt you could "do your job" Tony if you had my hearing! I have virtually nothing past 2kHz, e.g. "Lark Asending" on the violin is mostly lost to me. The last octave of piano is just a series of 'clunks'. And, WTF is a "hihat"?

Yes, I quite like my 5As and think they give a very 'honest' reproduction but they ARE getting on and I have had to repair a couple of faults with them already. I don't mix on them (never did, son was the musician and track builder) and now have them in my living room as my 'hi fi' speakers* but I am some 2mtrs from them and although quite loud enough for string quartets and such I would like now and again to let rip with a Beethoven symphony or indeed a bit of Quo!

But, thank you for your thoughts mate!

*I have a rather contentious issue to raise about this but will start another thread which will produce a BIG sigh from Hugh!

Dave.

[tea for two]

A friend went round a few top London studios and made recordings in the control room of each one using a binaural head with two B&K 4006 mic's in it.
That was an "interesting" "experiment" ?
He also recorded my hi-fi in my living room, a pair of Celestion Dutton 15 speakers, surprisingly, my recording sounded better, than some of the studios, maybe better isn’t a good word, but let’s say it held up well.

Placed a bid on Celestion Ditton 15XR located in edgeware starting at £40. Willing to go to £70.
Although the last speakers you recommended I returned to shop the same day I got them.
These Celestion Ditton will hold up just fine I'm fairly sure as a replacement for my current hifi speakers.
I think I can crank out fairly loud volume upto max 7 minutes weekends midday without disturbing too much neighbouring flats.

[Arpangel]

A friend went round a few top London studios and made recordings in the control room of each one using a binaural head with two B&K 4006 mic's in it.
That was an "interesting" "experiment" ?
He also recorded my hi-fi in my living room, a pair of Celestion Dutton 15 speakers, surprisingly, my recording sounded better, than some of the studios, maybe better isn’t a good word, but let’s say it held up well.

Placed a bid on Celestion Ditton 15XR located in edgeware starting at £40. Willing to go to £70.
Although the last speakers you recommended I returned to shop the same day I got them.
These Celestion Ditton will hold up just fine I'm fairly sure as a replacement for my current hifi speakers.
I think I can crank out fairly loud volume upto max 7 minutes weekends midday without disturbing too much neighbouring flats.

The original Ditton 15 was an excellent speaker, the XR is a different thing.
The XR has got a different tweeter, crossover, it’s a bit brighter, not as good IMO. But, still worth I’d say up to around £100/150 a pair, if you get them for £70 you’ve done OK. They don’t take power though, be careful how you drive them.
The original 15 is a lovely speaker, such a sweet sound, you’d pay upwards of £200 a pair for those from a dealer.