Taurus 1 pedal emulation

[Hugh Robjohns]

I've been trying to create a Taurus bass pedal emulation using hardware synths.

I created something suitably rumbling and powerful using my full size Korg MS20, but it's not quite right.

I think I can get closer using a Moog Subsequent 37, making use of the Beats tuning offset and the keyboard reset to lock the two oscillator phases on note starts.

I also cranked up the VCO levels to overdrive the filter a little which gives a bit of an edge to note starts.

Does anyone have any suggestions, tips or tricks to fine tuning a Taurus emulation? Any wisdom gratefully received.

Thanks

[BJG145]

Paging The Elf...

[The Elf]

This has been a life-long hobby of mine. I have real Taurus, but I've been in constant search of something less weighty and less scary to leave in the back of a van!

One or two easy suggestions... Cherry Audio Lowdown, which does a good job, or Hollowsun's samples, which are actually take from my Taurus. Or a copy of my own custom Kontakt instrument (only the 'Taurus' preset), which I'm happy to share.

I'm assuming you've got the basic cake baked, so I'll discuss the icing here.

I wouldn't do the note-on oscillator reset. I don't think the Taurus does that. I've tried it on other synths and it invariably sounds odd.

Beat tuning definitely *is* one part of the jigsaw. I hate it when the beat between detuned oscillators starts to speed up on higher notes anyway, and that's why I'm an advocate of beat tuning on any synth, though it's rarely implemented. With the Taurus the beat sweep needs to remain constant.

A tiny spot of distortion (or driving the filter) helps. On real Taurus you can hear a little bit of grit at the 'top' of each detuning beat sweep during sustain. It's subtle, but it makes a difference. Some compression too (ideally ahead of the envelope), to even out the volume dips and peaks. I always felt there was some compression going on, but Moog engineers denied it. I was told about some sort of trickery 'link' between amp and filter that meant nothing to me, but it was suggested as the cause of what I thought I was hearing.

The main trick with Taurus - always have the filter slightly wider open than you first think...

The most satisfaction I've had with Taurus simulations have been the Elektron Analog Keys and the Audiothingies MicroMonsta 2.

[The Elf]

On a side note, Gear4music are taking pre-orders for Behringer's 'Toro', predicted to land around October. My order's already placed...

[siderealxxx]

+1 for Cherry Audio Lowdown and dirt cheap too ($25):

https://cherryaudio.com/products/lowdown

Their stuff really is impressive, not even factoring in the price.

I wish they'd change their name/logo though, it's like software from the 90s.

If you're looking for hardware though, I can't think of a better synth for the job than the S37 so I imagine you're close!

[Wonks]

I've been trying to create a Taurus bass pedal emulation using hardware synths.

He's doing it the hard way.

[Hugh Robjohns]

The fun way!

I know there are samples and plugins, but I'm really just trying to work out what makes it sound as it does. There are clearly some (possibly unplanned) elements that are important but not obvious.

I thought the re-triggering might have been important, but maybe not. The Beat thing is significant, I agree.

I've been studying the Taurus schematics for clues, but it's a challenge....

[The Elf]

Also happy tp provide some isolated recordings for you to use as a guide.

[MarkOne]

I had those Hollow Sun samples, when Steve was commissioned by Alesis to provide sound banks for the Fusion.

They were amazing and I used them quite a bit on my first album.

His Mellotron set was amazing too, I think they were sampled from Tony Banks ‘tron.

The fusion went to synth heaven about a year ago, in my imagination I kinda hope it made its way to Steve and he’s getting great sounds from it up there.

[John Stafford]

I've read that one important component of the Taurus sound is the CA3080 OTA. The Source also used several CA3080s as VCAs. I don't know how distinctive the CA3080 is, but the Taurus sounds a lot like The Source to me. There's something about the high-end when it's pushed.

OTOH, many synths used the CA3080 and don't sound anything like the Taurus.

[Hugh Robjohns]

There's a CA3080 OTA in both of the oscillators, the filter output, and the output VCA. The first three all have fixed gains; only the last has a variable bias input to change the gain (controlled by the foot volume slider).

The first three could easily have been other standard op-amps (and both 1458s and 741s are used elsewhere in the circuitry). So I suspect the 3080s were chosen just for their non-linear character as they move into overload.

[The Elf]

I had those Hollow Sun samples, when Steve was commissioned by Alesis to provide sound banks for the Fusion.

When Steve asked for samples of my Taurus it prompted me to undertake a job I’d long put off. I carefully matched each of the presets to a single-oscillator ‘Variable’ version, so that Steve could offer adjustable tuning between the two oscillators. I do recall he was a bit shocked when I offered the samples in 96kHz/24-bit back then!

Not sure why, but a few years ago I took it upon myself to recreate the Kontakt instruments, with a few tweaks of my own. I never completed the job, but the result sounded somehow better this time. As long as I have that mighty ‘Taurus’ preset I’m not so bothered about the other sounds.

I’ve met many people over the years who used Steve’s samples (hence the ones I created), so I’m kinda proud of that.

The WORST Taurus sound I ever had to endure was that of the Emu Vintage Keys - that truly was abysmal, and to this day I feel certain that whoever created that patch had never been in front of the real thing.

[Martin Walker]

Some fascinating insights in this thread already - am looking forward to learning more (our bassist did have a Moog Taurus back in the 70's, and it does have a unique sound).

[MarkOne]

I think I can get closer using a Moog Subsequent 37,

I have the predecessor, Sub 37, so I'd be very interested in the outcome of your experiments!

[John Stafford]

The first three could easily have been other standard op-amps (and both 1458s and 741s are used elsewhere in the circuitry). So I suspect the 3080s were chosen just for their non-linear character as they move into overload.

Probably. I'm thinking of modifying my Source so that I can have an external oscillator/noise source in place of the infamous noise chip. I've also been thinking of making a little daughter-board to allow me to control the 3080s in the mixer externally, but it's a a bit risky. I don't mind the Source interface at all, but I'd like a knobby mixer.

I love that Taurus texture. It's a bit like Moog's answer to double bass bowing noise.

[tea for two]

Hollowsun's samples, which are actually take from my Taurus.

I’ve met many people over the years who used Steve’s samples (hence the ones I created), so I’m kinda proud of that.

This is quite funny lol also a little poignant. Steve gifted me the Taurus sample pack.

::

I had those Hollow Sun samples, when Steve was commissioned by Alesis to provide sound banks for the Fusion.

They were amazing and I used them quite a bit on my first album.

His Mellotron set was amazing too, I think they were sampled from Tony Banks ‘tron.

The fusion went to synth heaven about a year ago, in my imagination I kinda hope it made its way to Steve and he’s getting great sounds from it up there.

It was because of Steve I got the Fusion 8HD.
Steve's Novachord sample pack is still one of my favourite sample packs.
http://hollowsun.com/hs2/products/novachord/index.htm
I wanted to put my (no) name in the hat for Bladerunner2049 score using Steve's Novachord sample pack when they were searching for OST composers. Jóhann Jóhannsson pulled out. Thereafter they gave it to Benjamin Wallfisch and HansZ.

[The Elf]

Steve's Novachord sample pack is still one of my favourite sample packs.
http://hollowsun.com/hs2/products/novachord/index.htm

+1 I've used them countless times, and continue to do so.

[nathanscribe]

I'm thinking of modifying my Source so that I can have an external oscillator/noise source in place of the infamous noise chip.

Yeah, the 5837. It's a 17-stage shift register noise source with internal clock – which, unfortunately, has no external control at all – so you get what you get. Electric Druid offer a (nearly but not quite drop-in) replacement with plenty more stages so there's no Ivor the Engine effect as the bit pattern loops.

[John Stafford]

Electric Druid offer a (nearly but not quite drop-in) replacement with plenty more stages so there's no Ivor the Engine effect as the bit pattern loops.

That's great to know. Thanks.

[Wonks]

The WORST Taurus sound I ever had to endure was that of the Emu Vintage Keys - that truly was abysmal, and to this day I feel certain that whoever created that patch had never been in front of the real thing.

I asked Andrew Longhurst (ex-E-mu), and he said Tim Schwartz and Kevin Monahan did most of the sample sets for the Vintage Keys with Hanis Chaffin adding a few, but doesn't know who did exactly what sounds (I have no idea who these people are).

Andrew said that Roy Goudie - VP International Sales & Marketing at E-mu (and previously with Moog) - owned three Taurus pedals and Roy said much the same thing about the Taurus sounds on the Vintage Keys.

Andrew ran out of time to sample Roy Goudie's Taurus pedals when he was doing the E4, so no improvement there.

Andrew rates the Cherry Audio plug-in over the Hollowsun samples.

[The Elf]

Andrew rates the Cherry Audio plug-in over the Hollowsun samples.

Even though the Hollowsun samples are a recording of a real Taurus? Though admittedly static samples do have a way of not really stirring the soul. Nowadays I'd probably do a round-robin of half a dozen samples to help it out.

Yes, Cherry Audio Lowdown is a very good emulation.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Isn't the envelope CV a bit clipped, like on the MiniMoog? That gives the effect of compression because the envelope shape gets a flat top. I could be wrong...

[The Elf]

There's some sort of levelling going on, because the detune sweep doesn't kill the power in the sustain, but not at all like a MiniMoog to my ears.

[Enjoy Malc]

Many of the Taurus aspects described by The Elf can be achieved on a Kurzweil, dont know if this is of interest to anyone:

I hate it when the beat between detuned oscillators starts to speed up on higher notes anyway, and that's why I'm an advocate of beat tuning on any synth, though it's rarely implemented.

Beat tuning is on each oscillator in a Kurz, you have two parameters; Tune Cents and Tune Hz. I cant do without!

With the Taurus the beat sweep needs to remain constant.

Interesting, didnt know that.

I wouldn't do the note-on oscillator reset. I don't think the Taurus does that. I've tried it on other synths and it invariably sounds odd.

Phase - A lot of digital synths/romplers were stuck with it, but there’s a Kurzweil PC3 trick where you can offset the start phase by ‘dangling’ the input wire, so if you hook up 3 osc’s into one filter then two of them can have offset phase. You can alternatively have layer delay if you can put up with copies of all the blocks and layers (as each cascade needs to be independent). Later Kurzweils (PC4, K2700) have a built in osc’ note phase control.

A tiny spot of distortion (or driving the filter) helps.

Tone low/mid - On the Kurz you can do this several ways, e.g. by putting in an extra EQ in the path, but one of the tricks is to drop the input Pad. This ‘pushes’ the sound (I dont know the proper terminology sorry!) at the same time as giving the extra low end the Taurus needs.

The main trick with Taurus - always have the filter slightly wider open than you first think...

Tone top end - I wonder if this is the same thing, analog synths often have a nice bit of filter open at the top but without the openness underneath which comes from straight digital synths. So an extra EQ in the filter path, which can be done in VAST using either a Para EQ or a notch, can take out some of the brightness while keeping the fizz at the top.