Mixing Monitors (dedicated mixer)

[Gizmo1977]

The thing is that "I've never than monitors" (FOH or FOH+monitors).

In digital mixers you can do lots of things regarding patching... But, how was it in the analog days. I mean, besides the aux outputs what was the master bus used for in dedicated mixers (let's say a Siena). Mostly sidefills?

I've also read about using post fader aux when there is a dedicated monitor mixer. What is the purpose of doing so instead of going on the pre approach it's done when also doing FOH?

Any help regarding monitor mixing being different to FOH will be appreciated (besides dealing with egos, placebo knobs...).

Thanks in advance.

[Dave Rowles]

I've done loads of gigs as a FOH engineer, a Monitor Engineer, and doing both from one console.

It's a little hard to discern exactly what you're asking, so I may explain things you already know.

On small gigs, especially when you're starting out, you'll do monitors and FOH from one console. How this works will depend on the mixer, but a lot of the time, the Aux is fed post EQ, so the channel EQ affects the sound on both. Something this is switchable so Auxes are pre-EQ, which can be better depending on a few factors. You'll then have an EQ, usually graphic, that can alter the EQ on the monitors. When mixing FOH + monitors from the same board, the graphic EQs on the outputs are invaluable.

If you've got separate mixers, where the gain is not shared, the split happens pre-each board, so you can do anything to the channels and it won't affect the FOH or monitors depending... You asked specifically what the Main Bus does on a monitor mixer? Usually nothing. When using a monitor mixer, usually the Auxes are fed post fade, so all effects and processing can be used, and also gives you a quick "panic" fader to kill the signal quickly should you need to. I'd always feed any monitor on the aux, and not the main fader/group.

If you've got a monitor board, then the graphic EQ should be hit less. I'll do a little shaping EQ, but I'll do more channel EQ to control the sound. Approaching monitors is all about what the performer wants to hear. Some monitor mixes can sound AWFUL! but if that's what they want, that's what they get.

Anything specific please ask!

[Gizmo1977]

Sorry, being English not my mother language makes it a bit more difficult to describe my doubts.

Ok, so the master bus rarely carries anything, even a general mix (or FOH COPY) for sidefill.

My main doubts:

* Gain structure:
Would you set fader at 0dB and rise gain until peaking -3/6 or so on the peak meter? And afterwards adjust every aux knob for each bus? Keeping aux master fader around 0dB (setting power in the amp to needs) In that case, why wouldn't you just leave it prefader? Sorry if the question is too dumb but I don't see the point in doing it postfader.

* Panic fader. You find out the vocal mic is causing feedback so why lowering that fader instead of the aux master fader assigned to his wedge?

Thanks for your answer, Dave.

P.S. the need of 31 band EQs, the typical postEQ settings on small mixers (sometimes switchable with jumpers) were things I already knew but thanks for naming them.

[Dave Rowles]

* Gain structure:
Would you set fader at 0dB and rise gain until peaking -3/6 or so on the peak meter? And afterwards adjust every aux knob for each bus? Keeping aux master fader around 0dB (setting power in the amp to needs) In that case, why wouldn't you just leave it prefader? Sorry if the question is too dumb but I don't see the point in doing it postfader.

Depends on the system. Digital I would want to have it peaking at around -18/-12, analogue I would have it at around 0, as digital zero is the maximum, and on analogue you're usually good till +18. That's highly desk dependant.

What I usually do if I'm doing monitors is work with the person who's playing that instrument, so let's say vocals. I'll set aux send to around -6, then alter the gain until the vocalist has enough volume for themselves. I'll then ask if anyone else needs the vocal and set the level for them, as they'll usually need a lower volume than the person singing. That gives me enough gain on the channel to control the sound but also gives me headroom to boost for the vocalist if they need more during the gig. If you're dealing with a band with a loud stage sound (rock/metal) remember that in isolation the vocal is going to need to sound mega loud. When the rest of the band kick him you'll need to give him more, unless they are all on IEMs.

Post fader allows you to have full access to any processing you do to the channel. This is desk dependant again, so it does depend on where you can set the aux tap. On some desks you can do it pre HPF, Pre insert, Pre EQ, Post EQ, Post Insert Pre Pan, Post Pan, Pre fader, Post Fader. A rather dizzing array of options, but having the send post fader eliminates all of those options being confusing. Plus, as the master L+R does nothing when doing monitors, it really doesn't matter. It's actually rare that you'll process channels on monitors, but gates and compressors can be used if needed. However:

* Panic fader. You find out the vocal mic is causing feedback so why lowering that fader instead of the aux master fader assigned to his wedge?

Because depending on the desk grabbing a fader is generally quicker than finding the aux. Speed is key here. You pull the fader down quickly to solve the problem, then alter the aux and return the fader to zero. There have been quite a few occasions where that has got me out of trouble very quickly. Bands appreciate the speed of you solving problems as the quicker an issue is solved the less effect on the performance.

Thanks for your answer, Dave.

Happy to help!

[shufflebeat]

Good summary by Dave, very succinct.

Small addition - If you’re using appropriate mics for sources then often there’s very little EQing to be done and if you take a monitor feed from that channel pre-EQ then it doesn’t make a huge difference.

However, if you’re doing significant tone-sculpting to get a signal to an acceptable basic shape, i.e., a piezo pickup on a fiddle or acoustic guitar, then your choice of pre/post EQ will make a dramatic difference to the tone onstage, which can be managed with aux EQ but that will have consequences for anyone else sharing that monitor.

With a dedicated monitor desk this is obviously not an issue.

[Gizmo1977]

Thanks all for your answers!