Taurus 1 pedal emulation

[The Elf]

Thanks for that. I'm a Kurzweil devotee myself, and I know how powerful and flexible they are. Unfortunately some people find VAST difficult to get around, but it seems pretty simple to me.

[Eddy Deegan]

Thanks for that. I'm a Kurzweil devotee myself, and I know how powerful and flexible they are. Unfortunately some people find VAST difficult to get around, but it seems pretty simple to me.

VAST is the simplest thing about Kurzweil synths in my book. The harder things are figuring out how to get things like MIDI sync and local control configured such that they work uniformly. Don't even get me started on use of the term 'objects' and as for the sequencer it's a car crash of hideous user experience to the point I've written it off as a feature altogether!

I've got more synths in my studio than I could cite. All of them work as expected when it comes to setting external MIDI sync or the local control setting. The K2700... not so much. It's ridiculously difficult to find those settings and when you do they don't work as expected. Right now I've got a K2700 that won't make any sound other than over MIDI and I've no idea why. The local control (as I think it is) is enabled but it remains resolutely silent nonetheless. Why? I've no idea.

Sure, I've got to figure it out. I love my K2700... and I'm equally sure everything Enjoy Malc says holds true but Kurzweil don't make it easy when it comes to making a whole bunch of normal day-do-day settings intuitive or friendly. I feel as if they are fighting me all the time, making it as difficult as possible to achieve the simplest requirements one would expect and I'm coming (as I said) from the perspective of someone with a room full of synths from other manufacturers who have made everything so much easier than Kurzweil do.

Unless light dawns at some point I can see myself parting with the K2700 for that reason alone and I'd probably not get anything else from them for the same reasons. I bought it for features it surely has but which are hiding in condundrums behind puzzles and frankly life's too short. They really need to work on that IMHO.



Phew. Good to get it of my chest but don't let me divert from Hugh's original topic

[IAA]

I (too) tried the Minimoog to get that Taurus sound, but never managed it satisfactorily. I had some samples in a sound pack for Alchemy that were ok and tweaked those, but it was the movement that I missed. So I tried Lowdown for £19. To my ears it’s as close as I’ll need, lovely depth and movement that feels genuinely real. Sounds good in a mix too.

[Enjoy Malc]

I think I can answer both Kurzweil points and at the same time also get the topic back on track! With Kurzweil the following two quotes are true:

Unfortunately some people find VAST difficult to get around, but it seems pretty simple to me.

-

VAST is the simplest thing about Kurzweil synths in my book…
…Kurzweil don't make it easy when it comes to making a whole bunch of normal day-do-day settings intuitive or friendly.

Yes! Take building a Taurus model for example… With most synths the architecture is fixed; you detune your oscillators, set your filter and thats about it (I’m being flippant), but with the Kurz you have to actually build your synth first.

While writing this I read the SOS Taurus 3 review which says the Sawtooths are slightly distorted. Again the simplicity and pain of VAST comes to the fore; you can easily imagine that a distortion block before the EQ or ‘Moog’ filter might do the trick, but to rewire a distortion block into one of those two positions is time-consuming at best.

Another way to get that fatter sound is to use the Pad parameter. It’s the hidden gem in VAST and it acts as an input level for each block. So if you go to the filter and try reducing the Pad you are increasing the signal hotness going in. It stretches or pushes the sound, before clipping. Kurzweil designed these to sound good (goes all the way back to the K2000 days), and so this is very useful for THE TAURUS SOUND!!

- -

Right now I've got a K2700 that won't make any sound other than over MIDI and I've no idea why. The local control (as I think it is) is enabled but it remains resolutely silent nonetheless.

If you have checked the usual Global Midi pages and Multi Main page (independent page for each channel), that the Destination includes Local, then also check the “Local Kbd Chan” in Global Midi, as this should be set to none (I think its for external controllers taking over the Kurz).
Also, in the K2700 manual Kurz seem to have introduced a new page to handle the Audio Interface settings. They include references to local.
See the manual Page 257,733,469 (just kidding page 9-27).

-

[dyross@gmail.com]

One or two easy suggestions... Cherry Audio Lowdown, which does a good job, or Hollowsun's samples, which are actually take from my Taurus. Or a copy of my own custom Kontakt instrument (only the 'Taurus' preset), which I'm happy to share.

Yes, Cherry Audio Lowdown is a very good emulation.

I've never been satisfied with Lowdown, and I think I realized why - it doesn't seem to do linear beating / detuning - the frequency of the beats is much faster on higher notes than on lower notes. Am I just confused, or is this really missing?

I've been trying to recreate this effect in other analog-sounding virtual synths. I've read that the u-he modular (Bazille, ACE, etc.) can do this, but I can't figure out how.

Moog just came out with Mariana which has an modulate-able phase offset control on the second oscillator - is that a good approach?

Any other good ITB synths folks use?

[ajay_m]

I'd bet the hydrasynth could do the job. It can certainly do the "beat tuning" because you can assign a key track offset to any oscillator and get the detune to "beat" at a constant rate regardless of note pitch. Does someone have a link to a "definitive" Taurus patch I could use as a reference. Would be an interesting exercise to try duplicating it.

[The Elf]

I've never been satisfied with Lowdown, and I think I realized why - it doesn't seem to do linear beating / detuning - the frequency of the beats is much faster on higher notes than on lower notes. Am I just confused, or is this really missing?

Higher notes do speed up a little, but not so much that makes a huge difference.

Behringer's Toro is now my backup Taurus.

[dyross@gmail.com]

Huh, I find it to be pretty significant. Doesn’t stop me from using it, but enough to annoy me

[SafeandSound Mastering]

On a few occasions I have selected the saw wave of the Taurus in Spectrasonics Trillian, prior to this I had never heard it. I know the word "fattest" is thrown around quite a lot regards audio, but this was the beefiest saw I found in Trillian and it is not short of a few saw waves.

[tea for two]

Some persons must have already tried done this.
Preehaps starting from samples of Church Organ Bass pedals thereafter Synthesing it, after all the Taurus 1 was conceptually to me based upon Church Organ Bass pedals.

[The Elf]

Church organ bass pedals sound nothing like the Taurus. The Taurus is a synth first and foremost - it just has some interesting idiosyncracies that give it its appeal.

[Wonks]

A lot of rock/pop keyboard players in the 60s and 70s were using organs in bands. The Hammonds in particular could be used with foot pedals.

The Taurus pedals gave them options for very different bass sounds.

[Hugh Robjohns]

...after all the Taurus 1 was conceptually to me based upon Church Organ Bass pedals.

Only in so far as it was designed to be played with the feet. Every aspect of its sound generation — attack, wave shape, beating, filter sweep, decay/sustain — is radically different from any churchborgan pedal stop.

As Elf says, it's an out and out synth with bass-focused features.

[tea for two]

When I see Taurus played with hand makes me feel as hmmm I just feel it's to be played with feet.
I've sat at a just a handful Church Organs. The thing that made me feel I really was sitting at such was not so much all the stops the tiered keybeds, it was the Bass pedal. The deep feeling of playing the Bass pedals several here would know.

[MarkOne]

When I see Taurus played with hand makes me…

It makes me immediately think of the Steve Hackett Spectral Mornings tour, John, Steve’s brother thundering the opening of Clocks on the Taurus with fists.

It was decades before line arrays and subs, so they must have had some huge bass bins to make the theatre shake like it did.

[The Elf]

I used to gig with my Taurus, but no more. I once played in Annecy, France, and we were playing our soundcheck when we heard a bit of a fuss from the organisers about who kept moving the stacks of chairs. The stacks had been placed against the walls twice and were now once again back in the centre of the hall. We ignored the commotion and carried on our soundcheck. Then it dawned...

When I held down a low D on my Taurus the chairs began moving from the walls towards the centre of the hall!

[Hugh Robjohns]

I do love a solid standing wave across the floor!

[arkieboy]

I've already confessed to Elf on having used Steve's samples - they're still my goto Taurus where I can access a sampler of some kind.

That whole standing wave thing is so true though: I remember seeing Yes on the Union tour, and Chris was in front of me the moment he first stepped on his Taurus (in the round, remember). It felt like the air had solidified around me. Utterly glorious!

Also Kurz has that beat thingy? Now you've sorted out that Nautilus for Thursday, Dave, you know your next job!!

[tea for two]

I have The Elf's Taurus 1 sampled by Dear Steve. I've never used it in a piece. I think I shall next year make an album of Taurus 1 sample and Dear Steve's Hollowsun instruments samples including the Novachord which Dear Steve gifted to me.

I've never heard Taurus 1 played live.
I adore cavernous Bass rumbling through my body.
Chemical Brothers V Festival standing well back in the crowd near the edge, I could feel rumbles of the Bass through the earth sending vibrations into me.

[MarkOne]

I remember seeing Yes on the Union tour, and Chris was in front of me the moment he first stepped on his Taurus (in the round, remember). It felt like the air had solidified around me. Utterly glorious!

Was that at the NEC?

That was a truly magical gig.

[The Elf]

The tuning thing came up today while I was using my MicroMonsta 2 to emulate Taurus at a friend's studio.

I set a slight tuning offset on Oscillator 2 (which obviously sped up the detune beating on higher notes). I recreated the beat tuning in the modulation matrix by assigning incoming note value to Oscillator 2 tuning and setting a small negative modulation amount. That did the job nicely. So if your synth doesn't specifically have beat tuning this might be an option.

[The Elf]

...and to follow this up again!

Today I landed a very close Taurus emulation with my Dreadbox Typhon using the technique I mentioned above (close-tuned oscillators, then add a tiny amount of negative key-tracking to Oscillator 2's pitch).

I was a bit surprised, and grateful that the Typhon has this ability. I suspect that the (too?) simple interface puts a lot of people off Typhon, but it really is a very deep synth.

I also added subtle clipping using the Typhon's effects, to produce that 'purr' in the sustain.

[Hear Oh]

I think the Roland M-VS1 and JV Vintage Synth card has a Taurus patch.

[The Elf]

I think the Roland M-VS1 and JV Vintage Synth card has a Taurus patch.

It does... and it's appallingly bad!

I've heard a number of 'Taurus' patches on digital synths and I have to conclude that the task of creating them is typically given to a first day employee who has never even heard of Taurus pedals, let alone heard them.