Is this normal for a budding producer?

[demozide]

Hi everyone,
I certainly believe I could produce something. I am using FL Studio 20. I my case, I start arranging samples and MIDIs and aim towards making a complete song out of them. But while searching elements to complete the song the initial idea goes away like it was nothing. So I start with the new ones but the same thing happens again. I am sorry if this didn't make any sense. I am complete beginner, learning while experimenting with DAW. Is this a normal thing? This "changing idea" thing?

[The Elf]

This isn't about being a 'producer' - it's just about being creative in any form. Allow yourself to go off at tangents, allow yourself to make mistakes. From those will come the seeds from which your composition will bloom like a flower!

[amanise]

Echo The Elf. The more you try and force the ideas out - the more elusive they'll become (in my experience) - but everyone's different!

Allow things to happen in different ways if they need to - you'll know when you're on to something. It's as much practice as anything else - the more you do - the more you'll be able to tap into that idea stream. Stop - and it recedes - but sometimes it won't and keeps nagging at you until you go and put something down. Listen to your mind.

Each success (only you can decide what that is) you have will spur you on until you will NEED to put together some kind of system to work to - or you'll go mad and waste a lot of time. Or waste a lot of time, and then go mad.

Listen to people you trust - if there aren't any now - get some. But above all..
Have fun!!

[demozide]

Thank you The Elf and amanise for the reply. I can't keep my focus on one thing. I begin with one idea and in the end I'll be working with an entirely different thing, maybe even different genre of music. I'll practice more. I don't know when will I reach somewhere but I know I'm heading towards somewhere. Thank you!

[zenguitar]

Do you play an instrument? Or do you put together music by using samples, loops, and MIDI sequences that you source online?

It always helps if you can play an instrument. You can start with loops and MIDI sequences, but once you have the basic idea it does help if you can quickly play the extra parts you need yourself instead of having to search for them.

It also helps to be very familiar with your collection of loops and MIDI so you can quickly identify what you need and access it without delay.

Above all else you need to understand that a song isn't a collection of loops, samples, and MIDI. A song is an idea, an emotion, something that you need to express, something that has to be said. Ideas are nice, but they aren't songs. If you find yourself skipping from idea to idea what you are missing is "having something to say".

But keep on trying and having a go. The more you do it, the better you will get.

Andy

[Arpangel]

Don’t make music unless you have to, that’s my answer.
Zen Guitar is right, in a way, but even if you don’t play an instrument, in the conventional sense, you still need some sort of "musical intention" and as he said, something to say.
The first line of this post isn’t in any way a joke, if music is the only way you can express your feelings, then that’s a big deal, it’s not something you can force, it doesn’t matter what you use, a piano or loops, you have to have a "compulsion" to do it, it’s not something you have any choice over.
You can have loads of ideas flying about at the same time, it’s not unusual, but I’d say stay focused, don’t get distracted, and most of all f*****g finish something!

[Essex Boi]

stay focused, don’t get distracted, and most of all f*****g finish something!

That’s a key piece of advice. I have dozens of nearly but not quite finished projects. I also have hundreds of riffs, chord progressions, melodies, snippets, ideas, and lyrics that may one day come together to form something. However a musical piece, song, or whatever is nothing until it’s finished and someone hears it.

I was chatting to a pal the other day about my tendency to prevaricate rather than finishing something. He’s an amazing artist. His paintings are beautiful, moving, surprising, and a list of other adjectives. The thing is (and dare I say why he makes ends meet by teaching second rate disinterested students) he struggles to finish anything. He has dozens on the go at any one time, some taking years to finish. He described it to me as a fear of being judged. Once he frames a picture and hangs it in the wall it’s there for everyone to see.

To spur us both on we agreed he’ll do the artwork once I’ve finished my next EP. Though obviously we weren’t foolish enough to commit to a deadline.

[amanise]

stay focused, don’t get distracted, and most of all f*****g finish something!

That’s a key piece of advice. ....

Though obviously we weren’t foolish enough to commit to a deadline.

[The Elf]

I begin with one idea and in the end I'll be working with an entirely different thing, maybe even different genre of music.

What that is telling you is the second idea is better than the first. Trust yourself! And completely forget genres - they are meaningless.

Rare is the piece of music I've completed that is anything like the one I began trying to write.

And no piece of music is 'finished'. It is strategically abandoned.

[OneWorld]

Making music is like any other trade with a creative element.

As Zen says, making music, or indeed creativity, is about an idea. That idea is then presented in the most appropriate way, and then the merchandising part is the exploitation of that idea.

If you make music by way of loops and licks, then that's what I'd call flat-pack music, the IKEA version of furniture.

Compare a wardrode made by a craftsman/woman carpenter, and a wardrobe that comes in a box of MDF, screws and perplexing instructions on how to knock it together.

The issue with making music on a computer, using licks and loops, is that it is easy to get distracted. Paul MacCartney said in a recent interview that computers, music tech (the bedroom studio) is the biggest impediment to song writing. He said back in the day, he would pick up his guitar, and develop an idea to fruition, by the end of the day, he had a song finished, on the second day he would would polish it off and buff it up.........on the 7th day...he was counting his royalties!

He went onto say, since he bought into the music tech, having all the means of recirding at his disposal, he said "I have what must be a 1000 or more 8/16/32 bar 'ideas' I started but never finished" He said "I've gone back to writing with just the guitar, piano, and if I can't remember the song the following day - it was a duffer"

I watch so many musicians on YouTube, almost all of them with home studios. And in almost every case, the ones with the most memorable tunes, highest number of likes and visits, are the ones that can clearly play an instrument well. With many they give an ongoing commentary about how they went about the process of writing and in that commentary there'll be such explanations as "In the bridge I decided to base it around the minor flattened 3rd, but played the 2nd inversion etc etc" and they are giving a commentary at the same time as trying different modulations - they are clearly competent musicians.

Of course there is always a place for the 3 chord trick, and in some genres of music EDM for example, the structure is infinitely more simple, all the music aspires to do is to get people on their feet, and does a very good job of it too.

If you get distracted, raise your level of competancy as a musician, such that you get distracted by the infinite number of options available to you instead of getting distracted but having only a relatively restricted pallete to work from.

That's not to say a more complex piece of music is a more worthy piece of music.

One music lecturer I had (who was an aspiring classical composer) illustrated this point by playing one of Bachs 'studies' the lecturer then went on to turn it into a pice with jazz swing, instead of major 7ths he used flattened sevenths, played the 'blue third' etc - all this whilst studying the form for the 3:30 at Ascot, the newspaper sports pages laid out on the top of the piano - talk about multi-tasking!!!! Anyway, I am becoming distracted, back to work it is.

[RichardT]

Creating music is a difficult skill and everybody has struggles with it. It takes a long time to master.

Even if you are using existing audio and midi loops you’ll still need to develop the ability to put them together into something satisfying. That’s not at all simple in itself.

I agree with others that it’s important to finish things. Don’t worry that they’re far from perfect, or even good, just decide that they’re done and it’s time to move on. That discipline will drive more rapid improvement than leaving things undone.

You’ll probably find after a while that using existing loops can be limiting to your creativity. If you reach that point, I agree with Andy that learning the basics of an instrument will help.

Good luck!

[amanise]

There's another thing here about technical/formal musical skills. I'd say - don't get too hung up about that during the creative phase. Having good command of a physical instrument is a good idea, but once you are confident to perform on one - have a go at doing your composition on one you can't play. That breaks bad habits. There's been many a project of mine where I started out in the firm belief that it was going to be in one key - and then by the time I'm layering on the final guitar line at the end I find out to my surprise that I'm doing that in a completely different key to the one I started out in. I'm sure others will have had that experience too!

[Moroccomoose]

I have exactly the same problem, and I end up with hundreds started projects which are really nothing more than a noodle or a basic idea and by the time I come back, I've lost interest or I am otherwise inspired - only to end with the same result.

For me there are two main issues.... The first is that my perception (which may well be correct) is that I'm just not that good and the progress is disappointing... its never as good as I want it to be or as my pre-imagined result was supposed to be. But probably the most important one is that I have no deadline to complete or produce anything.

Limitations often lead to the most productive outcomes so by deliberately limiting ones choices or time may be the key to getting things done. Another is letting perfection get in the way of getting things done.

If only I could practice what I preach!

Stu.

[RichardT]

I have exactly the same problem, and I end up with hundreds started projects which are really nothing more than a noodle or a basic idea and by the time I come back, I've lost interest or I am otherwise inspired - only to end with the same result.

For me there are two main issues.... The first is that my perception (which may well be correct) is that I'm just not that good and the progress is disappointing... its never as good as I want it to be or as my pre-imagined result was supposed to be. But probably the most important one is that I have no deadline to complete or produce anything.

Limitations often lead to the most productive outcomes so by deliberately limiting ones choices or time may be the key to getting things done. Another is letting perfection get in the way of getting things done.

If only I could practice what I preach!

Stu.

One way I’ve given myself a deadline is to publicly announce that I’m going to do X in time Y. That certainly helps me.

Also I’m at an age now where my hearing is starting to deteriorate and that’s a good incentive too.

[Exalted Wombat]

I refer you to my signature below The trick is to kid yourself that the world DOES need your music, someone's been foolish enough to commission a song (for MONEY!) and there's a deadline. Come up with the best product you can manage by midnight tonight. Then leave it. Tomorrow, a new song. 100 days, 100 songs. They might start getting pretty good by then!

[Moroccomoose]

I hate fishing!

I refer you to my signature below The trick is to kid yourself that the world DOES need your music, someone's been foolish enough to commission a song (for MONEY!) and there's a deadline. Come up with the best product you can manage by midnight tonight. Then leave it. Tomorrow, a new song. 100 days, 100 songs. They might start getting pretty good by then!

[Wonks]

Have you tried working out a format and writing it down before you hit the DAW?

Even a basic intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/chorus/ending is a start. Or swap verse/chorus for motif 1/motif 2/breakdown/buildup etc, whatever most fits your style. Then elaborate the detail of what’s happening in each section - number of bars, loud/soft, sparse or full instrumentation, so you know what you are aiming for, before even loading a loop or sound.

You can try doing the reverse when listening to tracks you like, and seeing how they are put together. You could then copy the overall general format of one of those tracks but obviously using your own loops and instrumentation.

And if something works, then don’t be afraid to re-use the format with slight variations. Being formulaic never harmed the popularity of Stock, Aitken and Waterman acts in the 1980s.

[Essex Boi]

Another thing I've found invaluable is to get together with other people. Even if it's only one person. That person does not have to be a musician. I have friends to call on when I need a part played I don't have the skills for, but my most trusted collaborator cannot play an instrument or barely hum in tune. She has monstrous enthusiasm for all sorts of music and a natural ear for what makes a song listenable. A little nudge "Why don't you try that bit as the bridge?" or more forceful guidance "No. This track really doesn't need more cowbell" from her really helps to push my songwriting along. I guess that's the role of a producer in a professional setting.

[Wonks]

"No. This track really doesn't need more cowbell"

[Arpangel]

One music lecturer I had (who was an aspiring classical composer)

I guess he’s still "aspiring"

I’m not going to post anymore here tonight, my honesty level is way too high to comfort.

[Drew Stephenson]

It may be of interest to some, including the OP, but I'm about to start a series of blogs on the process of completing a song. The pitch being 'from rough to release'.
With the permission of the mods (not yet asked or confirmed! ) I'll be serialising it here too.

[OneWorld]

One music lecturer I had (who was an aspiring classical composer)

I guess he’s still "aspiring"

What’s your point?

[OneWorld]

Have you tried working out a format and writing it down before you hit the DAW?

Even a basic intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/chorus/ending is a start. Or swap verse/chorus for motif 1/motif 2/breakdown/buildup etc, whatever most fits your style. Then elaborate the detail of what’s happening in each section - number of bars, loud/soft, sparse or full instrumentation, so you know what you are aiming for, before even loading a loop or sound.

You can try doing the reverse when listening to tracks you like, and seeing how they are put together. You could then copy the overall general format of one of those tracks but obviously using your own loops and instrumentation.

And if something works, then don’t be afraid to re-use the format with slight variations. Being formulaic never harmed the popularity of Stock, Aitken and Waterman acts in the 1980s.

There sometimes appears to be a ‘snobbishness’ about formulaic. But music has been formulaic since antediluvian times - horses for courses. I watched a documentary about SAW and the documentary told of one occasion where they only had a few hours left with the newly discovered Kylie Minogue, before she was due to fly back to Australia. All was going well, they liked her voice, her looks, her industrious approach to work and pragmatism, the only thing missing was a song. One of the SAW trio said “I’ll get to work - do not disturb” an hour later he’d knocked out a disco ditty, her vocals were wrapped up after two takes, it was a number one hit. Job done and who gave a hoot whether it was formulaic or not, well certainly not the tens of millions that bought it.

[amanise]

It may be of interest to some, including the OP, but I'm about to start a series of blogs on the process of completing a song. The pitch being 'from rough to release'.
With the permission of the mods (not yet asked or confirmed! ) I'll be serialising it here too.

Can we have a section on acceptable levels of Cowbell use please?

[amanise]

Have you tried working out a format and writing it down before you hit the DAW?

Even a basic intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/chorus/ending is a start. Or swap verse/chorus for motif 1/motif 2/breakdown/buildup etc, whatever most fits your style. Then elaborate the detail of what’s happening in each section - number of bars, loud/soft, sparse or full instrumentation, so you know what you are aiming for, before even loading a loop or sound.

You can try doing the reverse when listening to tracks you like, and seeing how they are put together. You could then copy the overall general format of one of those tracks but obviously using your own loops and instrumentation.

And if something works, then don’t be afraid to re-use the format with slight variations. Being formulaic never harmed the popularity of Stock, Aitken and Waterman acts in the 1980s.

There sometimes appears to be a ‘snobbishness’ about formulaic. But music has been formulaic since antediluvian times - horses for courses. I watched a documentary about SAW and the documentary told of one occasion where they only had a few hours left with the newly discovered Kylie Minogue, before she was due to fly back to Australia. All was going well, they liked her voice, her looks, her industrious approach to work and pragmatism, the only thing missing was a song. One of the SAW trio said “I’ll get to work - do not disturb” an hour later he’d knocked out a disco ditty, her vocals were wrapped up after two takes, it was a number one hit. Job done and who gave a hoot whether it was formulaic or not, well certainly not the tens of millions that bought it.

Bang on. I reckon it's one of those 'pro-am' things. Being non-formulaic is a luxury I imagine you don't have when you've got ten projects on the go at once and deadlines screaming past your ears for all of them. That doesn't thankfully, describe my life now - but it did up until last summer. Not in music, I hasten to add. I'm formulaic now by choice so that it's easier to get things done. There's a skill in being 'multi-formulaic' - and I aim to acquire it. I should be so lucky, eh?