Phasing issue with two double tracked guitars

[hhart]

Hi,

i'm relatively new to mixing and ran into an issue i can't solve for myself.
I have a part, where i have two double tracked guitars

Guitar 01:
1 Track hard panned left
1 Track hard panned right

Guitar 02:
1 Track hard panned left
1 Track hard panned right

Each individual performances.
In the full Mix you can hear some strange phasing/wobbeling issues, especially in the last part at 00:25.
As far as I know phasing should mainly be an issue for the same source miced up in different positions but not for individual performances. Am I wrong?
I tried flipping the phase of one guitar pair, but this doesn't have any effect - so I don't know what's causing this issue.

You can find the full mix of the part here - and the individual sources of bass and guitars. Maybe my problem is already at the source and i don't get it.
(drums are kicking pretty hard right now, so you might lower your volume)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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The guitar tone of both guitars is:
Neural DSPs Archetype Nolly
Soothe 2 to get rid of some annoyin stuff
Some small EQ notches
High Pass, Low Pass
Slight compression

Everything runs through a master chain:
Some EQ boosts in lows and highs
Tape Saturation

---
of course any other suggestion for getting a better mix out of this is welcome

Thank you in advance

[Sam Spoons]

I'm guessing the guitars are recorded DI through plug-ins? Also Guitar 1 is a single performance as is guitar 2? If so then without any stereo fx on the parts putting it on two tracks panned left and right will simply result in a louder, central, mono part. So if you are getting phasing or WHY it must be generated in you fx chain, probably due to some kind of delay between the tracks or some other time domain effect.

[Wonks]

It’s very possible to get phasing by playing exactly the same guitar part twice if the timing is very, very tight.

Some singers were known for having phasing issues if they double tracked a vocal to thicken it because their phrasing and pitch reproduction was so correct.

If you have more than one guitar, try playing the lines on different guitars, or tune one very slightly sharper than the other, say +3 cents. Or try a soft and a hard pick, so that the basic string tone from the guitar varies.

Otherwise the sound from the guitar is basically identical; get the timing just-off spot on and you will get a certain level of phasing.

If you are using any parallel effects, then that can cause timing issues and phasing when the two streams are re-combined.

[hhart]

I'm guessing the guitars are recorded DI through plug-ins? Also Guitar 1 is a single performance as is guitar 2? If so then without any stereo fx on the parts putting it on two tracks panned left and right will simply result in a louder, central, mono part. So if you are getting phasing or WHY it must be generated in you fx chain, probably due to some kind of delay between the tracks or some other time domain effect.

Every track is a separate performance. So both guitars are double tracked - resulting in 4 individual performances.

[Sam Spoons]

Cool, then I refer you to m'learned friends explanation.

[Rich Hanson]

If you have more than one guitar, try playing the lines on different guitars, or tune one very slightly sharper than the other, say +3 cents. Or try a soft and a hard pick, so that the basic string tone from the guitar varies.

I usually detune and retune the guitar by ear when I double track, doing it three or four times creates a rather nice natural chorus.

[Matt Houghton]

Yeah. What Wonks said. I used to double track and layer guitars a fair bit and ran into this issue a lot. As suggested you can do the micro-pitch-up/down thing to separate them. You can also try something like autotune if you have a clean part or the DI. And nudging them in time... I also remember having some success with Sound Radix Pi to improve the phase relationship dynamically after the fact. But the best approach, as Wonks says, is to use different guitars, different picks, pickups, amps etc. — or even write different parts — to make sure what you're recording is sufficiently different that you don't run into these problems.

[ManFromGlass]

When recording sometimes I will use different pickup + bass/treble knob choices for double tracking. Then after that I may really carve each track with different and sometimes extreme EQ. Some great tips mentioned in this thread for me to try.

I’ve never noticed phasing on my tracks, most likely because I couldn’t play a solid locked in part if my life depended on it!

You probably thought of this but do your parts phase with all effects and eq turned off?

[Martin Walker]

Some singers were known for having phasing issues if they double tracked a vocal to thicken it because their phrasing and pitch reproduction was so correct.

[pedant]
Some singers were known for having phasing issues if they double tracked a vocal to thicken it because their phrasing and pitch reproduction was so CONSISTENT.
[/pedant]

[Wonks]

I know. I was hot and tired after a five hour drive. When I re-read it later it was too late to change it.

[Essex Boi]

Some singers were known for having phasing issues if they double tracked a vocal to thicken it because their phrasing and pitch reproduction was so correct.

[pedant]
Some singers were known for having phasing issues if they double tracked a vocal to thicken it because their phrasing and pitch reproduction was so CONSISTENT.
[/pedant]

Well, if we’re going to be pedantic, it should be: ‘. . . phrasing and pitch reproduction WERE so CONSISTENT.’ On the other hand, I’m from Essex, so what do I know about grammar?

[tea for two]

On heavier Guitar parts I layer stack 3-4 times the same Guitar parts processed differently via Logic's bundled software amp cab sims eq comp, also Chris Lord Alge Guitars plugin I purchased on sale.
It's worth fiddling around I think.