Type C Data and Video

[OneWorld]

If I buy a PC and it has a 'Type C Data and Video' connector, does that mean I can connect and use an audio interface that uses a Type C USB connector? or does it mean the Type C connector just allows file transfers?

[muzines]

USB Type C is the connector, it doesn't really say much about what it can be used for.

For example, my MBP has three USB type-C ports, and all of them support Thunderbolt 4, USB 3 (and 2), Displayport for monitors and other things etc. You can even charge the laptop with them.

You'll really need to look at the specs to see what you can do with that USB Type C connector. At worst, it will be USB only, and I'm not sure what Thunderbolt support is like on the PC.

[sonics]

Many audio interfaces using USB-C connections actually have USB2-speed ports. They work fine with an adapter cable. Some actually need the extra speed of USB-C to work correctly. As for video capabilities, you'll have to check the full spec of the actual PC. Also, if it doesn't explicitly say it's Thunderbolt, it won't be.

I would guess that all USB-C audio interfaces would work correctly, if other specs match (ie OS etc.).

[OneWorld]

Yes but exactly what do they mean when they write “data and video” ? Surely video is data isn’t it? And if the USB C communicates at USB2 level, would that be enough to handle 4K video (eg same as HDMI?)

[muzines]

Yes but exactly what do they mean when they write “data and video” ? Surely video is data isn’t it?

Video probably means DisplayPort and/or HDMI. This is entirely different to data, which is USB, Thunderbolt etc. These ports handle a lot of different signals - and yes, it's confusing.

And no, you don't transmit 4K video over USB2.

[Luke W]

Yes but exactly what do they mean when they write “data and video” ? Surely video is data isn’t it? And if the USB C communicates at USB2 level, would that be enough to handle 4K video (eg same as HDMI?)

It's unclear, and it sounds like they might not know either

As mentioned above, USB-C (or Type C, etc) simply describes the shape of the connector. Lots of people (and companies) have started to use it as if it were interchangeable with what connection it's providing, which leads to lots of confusion.

The only way to know exactly what you can and can't do with it is to find out exactly what protocols are supported by the connection.

[merlyn]

Where did you see 'video and data'? As has been said above C refers to the connector. Video and data means that the USB port is at least USB 3.1. The video is DisplayPort over USB.

Video is data, you're right, but it is a bit different as, like audio, it is time sensitive. Transferring data from one hard drive to another can be 'bursty', as in the connection speed can go up and down and that doesn't make any difference. Video not so much.

Audio interfaces that have a USB C connector can be plugged into a USB A port with a cable that has an A on one end, and a C on the other. Most audio interfaces are still USB 2.

[OneWorld]

Where did you see 'video and data'? As has been said above C refers to the connector. Video and data means that the USB port is at least USB 3.1. The video is DisplayPort over USB.

Video is data, you're right, but it is a bit different as, like audio, it is time sensitive. Transferring data from one hard drive to another can be 'bursty', as in the connection speed can go up and down and that doesn't make any difference. Video not so much.

Audio interfaces that have a USB C connector can be plugged into a USB A port with a cable that has an A on one end, and a C on the other. Most audio interfaces are still USB 2.

I saw the Type C data and video in a listing for Beelink mini PCs on eBay with one model having Ryzen 7 5800 cpu, 32gig RAM, 500gig NV.RE SSD c drive and a few usb2, connectors, a few USB connectors and type c usb 3.2 ~ I reckon that would handle modest Cubase projects easily

[S.Crow]

Video over USB is classed as an optional Alt mode, so if it’s not specifically listed I would assume it’s not supported.
Video via a USB type-C port can be either via Thunderbolt (3 or 4) or via USB (Alt mode).
Thunderbolt 3/4 always supports video, which makes it easier to follow.

[tea for two]

I had a HP 1507 Ryzen laptop on which the single USB C port is described as Data transfer only : which meant I could connect audio interface to it, I could connect USB drives to it.
But this USB C port couldn't be used to display on an external monitor : which I felt a bit put out by as I didn't realise.

This Beelink description Type C Data and Video implies that all three can be done on this USB C port : connecting audio interface, connecting USB drive, connecting to external monitor display.

[OneWorld]

I had a HP 1507 Ryzen laptop on which the single USB C port is described as Data transfer only : which meant I could connect audio interface to it, I could connect USB drives to it.
But this USB C port couldn't be used to display on an external monitor : which I felt a bit put out by as I didn't realise.

This Beelink description Type C Data and Video implies that all three can be done on this USB C port : connecting audio interface, connecting USB drive, connecting to external monitor display.

That sort of answers my question, could an audio interface be connected. As you say, the description implies that all 3 can be connected, but seeing as it is USB 3.2 it should, I think, be more than adequate seeing as the majority of interfaces use USB 2.0 but then I see adverts for Thunderbolt and Type C and I think "What's all that about?"

Now I sort of get it, the Type C signifies it is the physical connection type and Thunderbolt is the speed it will run at

[muzines]

Now I sort of get it, the Type C signifies it is the physical connection type and Thunderbolt is the speed it will run at

No - Type C is the connection type, but doesn't tell you what the port supports on your computer. Like said above, USB will always work (although not necessarily gen 2 USB, so whether you get 5 or 10Gbps may be variable). Video/displayport may or may not work. Thunderbolt may or may not work (there are plenty of Type C USB ports, but they don't necessarily support Thunderbolt, in whatever flavours of TB). Charging, both power out, and charging in may or may not work, depending on several things and how much power the port can supply.

If you're thinking this is all needlessly confusing, you're quite correct. Using the same connector for multiple, different types of connections has some advantages, but it means you can't just look at the connector and know what will work when you plug something in to it.

[OneWorld]

Now I sort of get it, the Type C signifies it is the physical connection type and Thunderbolt is the speed it will run at

No - Type C is the connection type, but doesn't tell you what the port supports on your computer. Like said above, USB will always work (although not necessarily gen 2 USB, so whether you get 5 or 10Gbps may be variable). Video/displayport may or may not work. Thunderbolt may or may not work (there are plenty of Type C USB ports, but they don't necessarily support Thunderbolt, in whatever flavours of TB). Charging, both power out, and charging in may or may not work, depending on several things and how much power the port can supply.

If you're thinking this is all needlessly confusing, you're quite correct. Using the same connector for multiple, different types of connections has some advantages, but it means you can't just look at the connector and know what will work when you plug something in to it.

But the description says Type C - USB 3.2 (data and video) - so that 'does' tell me what the port supports, doesn't it?

However, from what you say, because I see an audio interface with a Type C connector, it doesn't follow that it is USB 3/Thunderbolt, but in fact is most likely USB 2.0 but uses TYPE C connector

I now understand that USB4.0 is Thunderbolt and is 40GB transfer and not just the 20GB that USB 3.2 allows. ANyway enough for an audio interface

[muzines]

But the description says Type C - USB 3.2 (data and video) - so that 'does' tell me what the port supports, doesn't it?

Yes, the description listing what it supports does - that's the point of having the description. My point was you can't just tell by *looking at the port*, to know what it supports - unlike with standard USB A, FW, etc etc ports back in the day, which instantly informs at a glance you what you can, and cannot plugin. Eg you can plug a monitor into a USB-C port, with no guarantee it will work. Same for a Thunderbolt device, unless you have the specs to tell you which interfaces that Type-C connector supports on your machine.

However, from what you say, because I see an audio interface with a Type C connector, it doesn't follow that it is USB 3/Thunderbolt, but in fact is most likely USB 2.0 but uses TYPE C connector

If it's a USC-C connector, it will pretty much always support USB3 (and lower, USB2 and 1), but it won't necessarily support USB 3.2 gen 2 (a faster connection), and it certainly won't necessarily support Thunderbolt (which isn't well supported on PC's anyway I understand). If it supports Thunderbolt, the ports are usually described as "Thunderbolt ports", and generally will support more or less everythying.

I now understand that USB4.0 is Thunderbolt

USB is not Thunderbolt - different things. Which is why many USC-C ports don't support it. On my MBP, all the Type-C ports are Thunderbolt and support basically everything - so I have a monitor connected to one (video via DisplayPort), a UBC-C 3.2 gen 2 hub connected to another (SSDs, and other USB 3 hubs for general USB devices) and a third for miscelleous occasional stuff, ranging from USB2, to USB 3.2 gen 2, or another monitor, or a thunderbolt device (hub, adaptor card) etc.

[OneWorld]

But the description says Type C - USB 3.2 (data and video) - so that 'does' tell me what the port supports, doesn't it?

Yes, the description listing what it supports does - that's the point of having the description. My point was you can't just tell by *looking at the port*, to know what it supports - unlike with standard USB A, FW, etc etc ports back in the day, which instantly informs at a glance you what you can, and cannot plugin. Eg you can plug a monitor into a USB-C port, with no guarantee it will work. Same for a Thunderbolt device, unless you have the specs to tell you which interfaces that Type-C connector supports on your machine.

However, from what you say, because I see an audio interface with a Type C connector, it doesn't follow that it is USB 3/Thunderbolt, but in fact is most likely USB 2.0 but uses TYPE C connector

If it's a USC-C connector, it will pretty much always support USB3 (and lower, USB2 and 1), but it won't necessarily support USB 3.2 gen 2 (a faster connection), and it certainly won't necessarily support Thunderbolt (which isn't well supported on PC's anyway I understand). If it supports Thunderbolt, the ports are usually described as "Thunderbolt ports", and generally will support more or less everythying.

I now understand that USB4.0 is Thunderbolt

USB is not Thunderbolt - different things. Which is why many USC-C ports don't support it. On my MBP, all the Type-C ports are Thunderbolt and support basically everything - so I have a monitor connected to one (video via DisplayPort), a UBC-C 3.2 gen 2 hub connected to another (SSDs, and other USB 3 hubs for general USB devices) and a third for miscelleous occasional stuff, ranging from USB2, to USB 3.2 gen 2, or another monitor, or a thunderbolt device (hub, adaptor card) etc.

I'm sorry, I'm just not getting it, you write........

USB is not Thunderbolt.........

Which is why many USC-C (USB - C???)ports don't support it.

On my MBP, all the Type-C ports are Thunderbolt........

So the advert I am looking at which says "TYPE - C USB3.2" says basically what you are saying........"On my MBP, all the Type-C ports are Thunderbolt........and support basically everything........."

I think I might just get the thing anyway and take a punt, it has USB2 + USB3 and the Type C connector. I note that RME, and other esteemed interfaces get by with USB2 and that's good enough for me.

Thanks for all your help

[muzines]

I'm sorry, I'm just not getting it

Let's keep it simple then: just because a computer has a USB-C port, it doesn't mean you can always connect a Thunderbolt device and have it work.

[S.Crow]

The problem with USB4 and USB 3.x is that there are optional features.
You add to that the confusing naming for USB 3.x and the different connector types and the room for confusion grows.

I suggest to differentiate clearly between the physical port connector type and the protocols that the controller behind the port supports.

Type C connectors are used by USB 2.0, 3.x, 4 and also thunderbolt 3 or 4 controllers.

Thunderbolt is straightforward as there are no optional features and they are described as thunderbolt ports.

For USB Type C ports, you need to check the detailed specs for the device.

There is also power delivery via Type C ports which I have ignored.
That can vary a lot and even for thunderbolt.

[merlyn]

Going past the first yard of nine ...

The USB audio protocol is exactly the same for USB 2 and USB 3. There is no improvement in latency from using USB 3 with the USB audio protocol. However there are RME interfaces that can get better latency from USB 3. To do this RME treat the USB cable as a bit of wire, and use their own USB audio protocol for which a USB controller is implemented on the FPGA.

Or if that's too much ... ask The Audio Gnomes.

[Guest]

Yes but exactly what do they mean when they write “data and video” ? Surely video is data isn’t it? And if the USB C communicates at USB2 level, would that be enough to handle 4K video (eg same as HDMI?)

Hi guys
When they mention "data and video," they are likely referring to different types of data transmission. While video is indeed a form of data, it may require specific protocols and bandwidth for optimal transmission

[OneWorld]

Yes but exactly what do they mean when they write “data and video” ? Surely video is data isn’t it? And if the USB C communicates at USB2 level, would that be enough to handle 4K video (eg same as HDMI?)

Hi guys
When they mention "data and video," they are likely referring to different types of data transmission. While video is indeed a form of data, it may require specific protocols and bandwidth for optimal transmission

I'm sure they're just doing it to confuse me - 2B or not 2USB