Phasing / Live Drums

[MDslammer]

Hello guys,

I was trying to educate myself about "phasing" regarding recording live drums.
I am aware of a possible phasing issue regarding two mics, in close proximity on
my snare drum.
However, someone mentioned in conversation about having other phasing issues, but failed to site any and the conversation ended.
So if you have any advice, help, links etc. regarding this, please let me know.
Thank you all in advance.

Mark

[Wonks]

The biggest phase issue is when you have mics on the top and bottom of the snare. The bottom mic should always have its polarity reversed in relation to the top mic.

Otherwise you generally get what you get. Try and keep to the 3:1 rule, so the mic to sound source distance is at least 1/3 the distance from the mic to the next sound source. This should mean that the sound picked up by the mic of the neighbouring sound sources is well bellow that of the primary sound, so when mixed in with other mics, any phasing effect will be minimal.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

No you don’t have to reverse the polarity of the bottom snare mic relative to the top. Because you get both constructive and destructive interference at each of the harmonics of which there are hundreds. Result is sometimes positive polarity sounds good, sometimes negative does. Or you can just move one of the mics slightly and keep doing that til you get a sum total of the two that you like. The overheads are far enough from the close mics that you hear that delay as reflections/ reverb.

3:1 rule doesn’t work well on a kit because every thing is so close together. And anyway you are not hitting all the drums simultaneously 99% of the time, so phasing as such is never audible. 3:1 rule is really for sustained sounds. Better to position mics so the leakage adds nicely, since it is almost impossible to eliminate. Obvs you would edit or gate the worst of it on the toms and if you want to heavily compress the snare.

Just like leakage, phase issues are over rated and misunderstood. In miking a drum kit simply take the time to move all the mics slightly til they all add together and sound like the kit IRL but punchier (because that’s why we close mic it).

I don’t know of any decent sites to cite except DPA microphone university, where you can learn a lot about mics in general but for drums- how to correctly set up AB stereo overheads.

[The Elf]

Personally I polarity flip all the mic's where the initial movement of the drum skin/cymbal will be moving away from the mic - usually overheads, snare top and upper tom mic's. This said, it can often be that the 'wrong' polarity produces a more pleasing result, especially when all the drum mic's are brought into the mix. It's worth trying a few 'wrong' polarity settings to hear the results. These days it's simple to look at the waveforms to give a guide as to what it happening.

The more mic's in play, the more combinations you have to deal with. At some point you have to settle on a compromise.

3:1 is a good rule, as it angling mic's such that they are, as far as practical, at 90 degrees to each other. Following these basic guidelines I've never had an insurmountable problem with phase.

And having said all this I also get good results by time-alignment (to the snare mic, which represents a workable average), though this is something I don't feel the need to do so much these days - it's a good method for sharpening up drums for metal bands.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Trying to apply 3:1 rule and also 90 degree angle sounds like a Sysiphian task to me, because you can’t do both while also putting the mics where they sound best?

But as you say, at some point you have to compromise.

I’ve had the best results when we had the room booked for a week, the band rehearsed while I set up the kit mics and gradually got the sound as the band got tighter. Recorded everything so we even used some guitar solos from early rehearsals where the guitarist was experimenting

I like the Motown approach. Once they got the drum sound, they nailed the kit to the floor and it stayed there for 8 years or something.

[The Elf]

Trying to apply 3:1 rule and also 90 degree angle sounds like a Sysiphian task to me, because you can’t do both while also putting the mics where they sound best?

They're just guides. I have my own way of miking a kit that pretty much respects these guides, but perfect it ain't! Putting mic's 'where they sound best' is the best guide of all - good luck with that task!

I like the Motown approach. Once they got the drum sound, they nailed the kit to the floor and it stayed there for 8 years or something.

Yeeeeeaaaaah...

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Putting mic's 'where they sound best' is the best guide of all - good luck with that task!

Yeah it's a whole thing. The typical mistake is to get each mic/ array lovely in solo, and leave the mix til later. Balance it by moving the mics, good monitoring is essential I think, and lots of time because sometimes it's like bubble in wallpaper!

The other common mistake is to position the overheads visually, rather than actually listening to them and checking the goniometer.