Modern day Yamaha NS10 equivalent?

[BillPayer]

The last people I had in my studio wanted to take the mixes away to listen on some other sound sources, which is absolutely the right thing to do.
But I would like to offer them and others a comparison.
My current monitors are tannoy reveal actives and I would like something that are pretty different to them.
This led me to look for NS-10s but obviously they are now discontinued and 2nd hand they seem to go for, what I consider, an absolute fortune!
So I am just wondering if there are any modern day speakers/monitors that have the flat, revealing (rubbish!?!) characteristics?

[Stevedog]

Avantone Mix Cubes..? my favourite *crap* PC speakers are Altecs..

[Guest]

Why were the NS10s discontinued anyway? Someone told me it was because they could find the right materials for construction anymore

[forumuser695516]

Why were the NS10s discontinued anyway? Someone told me it was because they could find the right materials for construction anymore

That was written off as "bollocks" some time ago. Due to the fact that all spare parts are still produced for NS10's. At least they were last time I looked 2 or 3 months ago anyway.

I definitely fall into the "Whats all the fuss about?" camp where NS10's are concerned mind! Although I understand the attraction of non ported monitors entirely, NS10's are still pretty bleh....

Doesn't the Acoustic Energy AE22's supposedly have many of the attributes of NS10's? Worth consideration perhaps.. There isn't that many non ported monitors to choose from these days. At least not at realistic cost..

Paul

[Steve Hill]

The NS10 "thing" is not acoustics (by a million miles!) but a very very fast transient response which shows up all the wrinkles where "flabbier" speakers smooth them out by, simply, failing to respond in time. Most modern speakers are designed, at least slightly, to flatter because the human ear/brain is not really attuned to hearing an "unsmoothed" product.

I'm not sure Yamaha ever quite intended this - NS10s were originally hi-fi speakers, and they seem to have accidentally gone down the blind alley of discovering too much fidelity (moronic "audiophiles" take note) and finding nobody wanted to listen to it. Outside the studio market they were not a success.

I don't know a modern equivalent. There are grot boxes for a horrible sound if e.g. you are mixing for TV, but you might as well just plug in a TV! The NS10 is about hearing all the crap in your mix. And you would be mad to use them as a sole monitoring system for just that reason.

[BoogieBear]

Hi there

Have a look at these http://www.studiospares.com/Studio-Monitors/Studiospares-SN10-Nearfield-Monitors-Pair/invt/248000 they are designed as a direct replacement I believe

Cheers
Anton

[Steve Hill]

Have a look at these http://www.studiospares.com/Studio-Monitors/Studiospares-SN10-Nearfield-Monitors-Pair/invt/248000 they are designed as a direct replacement I believe

No, they are a piece of marketing hype, and shame on Studiospares (who I usually quite like).

They sound like a £100 set of monitors. The going rate for used NS10s is £400 or so, and there's a reason for that.

[ken long]

The last people I had in my studio wanted to take the mixes away to listen on some other sound sources, which is absolutely the right thing to do.
But I would like to offer them and others a comparison.
My current monitors are tannoy reveal actives and I would like something that are pretty different to them.
This led me to look for NS-10s but obviously they are now discontinued and 2nd hand they seem to go for, what I consider, an absolute fortune!
So I am just wondering if there are any modern day speakers/monitors that have the flat, revealing (rubbish!?!) characteristics?

I use a pair of NS10s as reference speakers and they are valuable for hearing whats going on in the mids but do not translate lows well at all (steep roll off).

But the other thing to consider is that clients respond to the sight NS10s because they are found in every major studio. So £400 quid is buying the cachet as well as the sound.

Of course, without a properly treated room to listen in...

ken

[. . . Delete This User . . .]

a bit tangental to the OP intent perhaps, but can I suggest, despite the price, that you audition the Acoustic Energy AE22.

it does the job of the NS10 (accuracy in the time domain) but manages to sound nice doing it.....

and for what they are, they're a bargain.

a passive set is under £500 , and the active set under £800.

and yes i liked them enough to buy them.......

[Phil Ward]

Guys,

I covered pretty much all the why, how, what and where of the NS-10 here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep08/a ... hans10.htm

And as for the AE22, well modesty prevents me etc. etc

Phil

[tea for two]

Oh go on Phil

[Phil Ward]

No, I can't really. I mean my bass playing's bad enough but you should hear the noise that blowing my own trumpet makes.

P

[Hugh Robjohns]

Another vote for the AE22 here. If you want something that does the job that many professionals rely on the NS10 to do, the AE22s do it better.

Hugh

[uhogb]

I`ve got HS50m`s and they seem to do the job for me.
But i`ll get a sub for them in the future.
They quite flat and reliable.

[Zukan]

For the AE22s.

Nice job Phil.

[Phil Ward]

Awww shucks, you're all just too kind. Oh look! My head just exploded!

P

[Johnny Stecchino]

Wouldn't the YAMAHA MSP5 be the one?

[Mixedup]

Wouldn't the YAMAHA MSP5 be the one?

nope.

[DJ1234]

Steady on chaps or Phil will be putting his prices up and bananas are hard to get this time of the year!!

[Hugh Robjohns]

I`ve got HS50m`s and they seem to do the job for me.

Wouldn't the YAMAHA MSP5 be the one?

Both the HS50 and the MSP5 use ported cabinets -- they are bass reflex designs.

The NS10 (and the AE22 and the LS3/5A and the Auratones) are all sealed box designs (often called infinite baffle designs although, technically, that is a different thing again...)

The idea of the reflex design is to use the acoustic energy from the rear of the driver to help bolster up the low end of the monitor's frequency response, providing an apparently stronger bottom end than might be expected from a relatively small box.

The problem is that this is inherently a resonant system, and that means that a degree of time-smearing and LF resonance is inevitable -- at least in the lower cost designs.

One of the major strengths of the NS10 (and the LS3/5 and the Auratones and the new AE22) was that they don't have that time-smearing or LF resonance. As a result, it is much easier to hear and judge the correct balance of bass instruments, in particular, and that's why professionals like using them -- as as tool to do a very specific job.

Hugh

[Guest]

The problem with the NS10s are that everytime you see someone getting interviewed in a top studio there's some of those in the bleeding background!

I like the sound of these AE22s - is Phil Ward the inventor of these highly rated speakers then?

I might save up for a pair when I finally get round to treating the room I mix in - I'm stuck with mixing on headphones at the moment and my old and fried KRKs are never used for anything serious anymore

I really like the way they look - future-retro in a Sky Captain World of Tomorrow kinda way

[Phil Ward]

Imran,

"Inventor" is far too grand a term. The "modern" moving coil speaker was invented by Chester W. Rice and Edward Washburn Kellogg in 1924. The AE22 is, along with pretty much every other professional monitor or hi-fi speaker, just a development of their basic idea. However, yes, I did conceive and design the AE22 while working as a consultant to Acoustic Energy.

Phil

PS. DJ, I really, really can't abide bananas. Goes back to primary school where a particularly nasty dinner lady used to sit and make me eat (or actually sob into) my bananas and custard while all my friends went out to play. I've not touched a banana since.

[Džoni]

When I grow up, I want to be a combination of all the knowledgeable and experienced people on this forum.

[. . . Delete This User . . .]

I really, really can't abide bananas. Goes back to primary school where a particularly nasty dinner lady used to sit and make me eat (or actually sob into) my bananas and custard while all my friends went out to play. I've not touched a banana since.

damn, we must have gone to the same school.......

fruit of the devil.... i abhor, detest, despise, and indeed, generally dislike the yellow bendy barstewards....

[BillPayer]

I think that I am going to go down the mixcubes route with maybe an Alesis rackmount amp. Really simply because this is a pretty cost effective route and these are supposed to be backup/2nd speaker setup, just going to see if I can find any 2nd hand.
Thanks for all the replies. I'm Just off to buy some bananas, not really I don't like the texture.